This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. 
Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:53, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:53, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Forums > Senate Hall archive > SH:Imperial Remnants article-disambiguation page
This subject has been discussed on Discord before, so I believe it is time to put it to rest once and for all. Noting that I intend to move forward with a Consensus Track thread once discussion on this topic is complete.
The facts:
- The Imperial remnants page, as it exists right now, is listed (on the article itself) as a Disambiguation page. However, it includes information that would be more suitable for an article, as well as information that doesn't actually need a disambig page, since a lot of the "remnants" mentioned are clearly distinguished from each other. It also lacks any sources, appearances or references and should as such be a candidate for Speedy deletion.
- The Imperial remnants are becoming a very important topic in recent Star Wars Canon and definitely require a properly written and sourced article covering their history from the Battle of Endor all the way to the First Order; also, a proper disambig page must be created concerning only those remnants whose name we don't yet know.
- Morgan Elsbeth's forces need to be integrated on the article as well.
Proposal I believe that the disambig page as it is must be speedy deleted, as it doesn't actually serve much purpose other than being a comprehensive list of all remnants in current Star Wars Canon (Lists Of are not an acceptable article type on Wookieepedia, according to multiple discussions and archived SH threads). I also believe that a new WookieeProject must be assembled to begin collecting information about and writing up a replacement in IU article form to ensure the best quality possible.
The discussion I think that we face three choices here:
- Fix and keep the current article as a disambig page and expand on each Remnant in its own page;
- Delete the current article due to lacking any of the required sections highlighted in the Manual of Style and replace it with an IU article on Imperial Remnants; or
- Fix the current article and keep it as a disambig page; at the same time write up a comprehensive IU article on Imperial Remnants
Waiting for opinions and thoughts! AxMech (talk) 11:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Discussion
- I'd say deletion isn't really needed here - if it's judged that a full article is warranted it's best to write that up first and then replace this page with it. Until that time it's best to keep something at that title - more helpful to the reader that way. Imperators II(Talk) 12:09, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sources like " Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia, Updated and Expanded Edition use the "Imperial Remnant" phrasing ("Moff Gideon is smart and relentless as he leads a portion of the Imperial Remnant"), so a page with that title is definitely needed. I think it "Imperial Remnant" is not and organization, but a term referring to a variety of post-Endor Imperial-related groups. ThrawnChiss7
Assembly Cupola 12:00, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- Was not aware of this, but it seems to confirm that there are, imo, two contradicting canon facts. Character Encyclopedia and a minority of other sources like the Mando S3 character guides seems to refer to the Remnant as a loosely-tied together organization composed of various sub-units, but the rest of the SW media portrays them as separate entities (for example, Gilad Pellaeon's delegation seems to have no contact or relations with Morgan Elsbeth's forces, despite them both sharing the same goal, which is to bring back Thrawn). Not sure which side we should take here.AxMech (talk) 13:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- I do not believe that Morgan Elsbeth's forces should be considered as part of the Imperial Remnant since the only connection to them (at least to Gilad Pellaeon's delegation) is a shared singular goal to bring back Thrawn. Other than that, they seem to be independent. In my opinion, the biggest piece of evidence in support of the Imperial Remnant being one organization is in The Mandalorian Season Three; it is mentioned in the Shadow Council scene that they intentionally want the New Republic to view them as warlords operating independently of each other. They are one Imperial Remnant. I believe that a page with the capitalized term should combine only the remnants with a delegation on the Shadow Council.Drour1234 (talk) 22:06, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- The point persists though; if you take a look at the current Remnants (with an s) page, there's a lot of remnants operating during the New Republic that have zero (confirmed) connections to the Shadow Council, yet they're identified as remnants nonetheless.AxMech (talk) 09:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- I just noticed that the capitalized term Imperial Remnants appears in the opening crawl of Part One: Master and Apprentice. It is worded in such a way that identifies all of the Imperial Remnants, not just the ones affiliated with the Shadow Council.Drour1234 (talk) 04:34, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- The point persists though; if you take a look at the current Remnants (with an s) page, there's a lot of remnants operating during the New Republic that have zero (confirmed) connections to the Shadow Council, yet they're identified as remnants nonetheless.AxMech (talk) 09:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- I think an IU page would be useful, per the discussion above. Rsand 30 (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- I do not believe that Morgan Elsbeth's forces should be considered as part of the Imperial Remnant since the only connection to them (at least to Gilad Pellaeon's delegation) is a shared singular goal to bring back Thrawn. Other than that, they seem to be independent. In my opinion, the biggest piece of evidence in support of the Imperial Remnant being one organization is in The Mandalorian Season Three; it is mentioned in the Shadow Council scene that they intentionally want the New Republic to view them as warlords operating independently of each other. They are one Imperial Remnant. I believe that a page with the capitalized term should combine only the remnants with a delegation on the Shadow Council.Drour1234 (talk) 22:06, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- Was not aware of this, but it seems to confirm that there are, imo, two contradicting canon facts. Character Encyclopedia and a minority of other sources like the Mando S3 character guides seems to refer to the Remnant as a loosely-tied together organization composed of various sub-units, but the rest of the SW media portrays them as separate entities (for example, Gilad Pellaeon's delegation seems to have no contact or relations with Morgan Elsbeth's forces, despite them both sharing the same goal, which is to bring back Thrawn). Not sure which side we should take here.AxMech (talk) 13:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- Perhaps having it re-written similar to the Separatist holdouts page would be suitable --Vitus InfinitusTalk 22:48, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yea, something similar to that sounds good. I was thinking of maybe something like "Imperial Remnant is a term to describe several remnants of the Galactic Empire who continued to operate in violation of the Galactic Concordance." as the articles lede line. ThrawnChiss7 Assembly Cupola 22:35, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me as well. Just as long as we all agree on it. Jkirk8907 04:39, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yea, something similar to that sounds good. I was thinking of maybe something like "Imperial Remnant is a term to describe several remnants of the Galactic Empire who continued to operate in violation of the Galactic Concordance." as the articles lede line. ThrawnChiss7
- At least the The Star Wars Book calls the ones who refuse to abide by the Galactic Concordance the only capitalized "Imperial Remnant." in its glossary. Imperial Remnant Rogue members of the Galactic Empire who refuse to abide by the surrender of the Galactic Concordance and who operate from the fringes of space. --Goodmind (talk) 14:34, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
- I agree with the creation of an IU page. What Xiono says in the latest Ahsoka episode shouldn't matter from the perspective that he is not aware of any organized Imperial activity, while we (the audience) are aware of such activity. However, I believe that the page should be kept to assist in the page's creation, and can be deleted once we can ensure all content is on that page. AmazinglyCool
(talk) 19:45, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
