Forum:SH:Changing how to handle source books releasing outside US

This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments or questions on this topic should be made in a new Senate Hall page rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record. C4-DE Bot (talk) 20:29, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

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Currently, our spoiler policy is a little vague on how to handle sourcebooks and I think outdated on how we handle Television series. Some changes I'd like to see discussed

1. Change the policy to explicitly say it applies to films, TV series, novels, anthologies, short stories, comics, games, and other narrative material I'm unable to recall.
   • Also explicitly state things it doesn't pertain to, removing confusion: Sourcebooks.
2. Find a way to reword the Television section
   • Disney+ has brought globally simultaneous releases of television series so the current wording feels outdated.

While we're on the topic of release dates, I'm curious if people are up for changing this section of the LOG to have the earliest release date, outside of early screenings, to always be the earliest date, regardless of origin. Specifically changing "Items may be listed by foreign release dates if there is a considerable gap between the subsequent American release date, such as several weeks or months, or if no American release date exists." to be less subjective. Two weeks is several to some, but not to others. I think we should just default to the earliest release date for uniformity.

If people like these changes and want to move forward, I would appreciate help in crafting the exact policy proposals. I'm also sure the rest of the "Adding new information to articles" section could be reworded but I don't have any immediate input. NBDani (they/them)^{Yeager's Repairs} 16:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Discussions

• I don't believe we should remove the bit about a TV show applying by it's EST release time. While admittedly Americentric, it's the bog standard time listed for most releases and there's no guarantee that Disney+ will continue the intl. release model, or that we won't get more Star Wars shows on cable television. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 17:14, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I think we should change the policy to reflect the current trend, as even the children's show is airing on Disney+. If they reverse their decision in the future, we can change the policy again. NBDani (they/them)^{Yeager's Repairs} 17:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
    • I disagree. Perhaps we can alter the policy to accomodate the current release trent, but we don't know if or when they'll ever release another show exclusively on cable again or do a staggered international release on Disney+ for whatever reason, so the requirement of earliest release should not be removed for TV shows. That being said, perhaps earliest international release would be more suitable for the idea behind this SH rather than earliest EST release. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 17:32, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Policy should cover as many situations as practical, not just situations that happen to have existed over the past year or two. If some parts of policy end up not being relevant because of current corporate practice, that's totally fine. But at least the provisions are in place if corporate practice changes. (Spoiler alert: corporate practice will always change.) Asithol (talk) 20:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
• Thanks for bringing this up Dani! I agree that we need to just be more specific, because I know that I and some others have been confused about the policy and reference material before. One other thing I'd like to see clarified, and it could be tied with the other point of when we list sources by date, is when exactly information from reference material with multiple dates can be added to pages. Do we wait for the US date, like we do for narrative material, or on the date of the UK edition for example if it was released early there. In my opinion, if it was released on an earlier date, it's a bit unfair to force those users to wait just to add information, it's not the fault of those individuals it was released early in their country vs the US. Regarding the release date listing, I'm in agreement with listing the earliest actual release date outside of early screenings too. The current woridng really isn't definitive, and therefore doesn't allow for consistentcy across all sources, because one source may come out a week before, or one month. Going by the earliest then allows for consistency Lewisr (talk) 17:15, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
• Another piece of reference material I think might be worth bringing up is Star Wars Insider. The magazines are shipped to subscribers before the digital release (which we treat as the release date) however we are inconsistent about when information can be added. Since subscribers have access to the information early I have seen times where we add the information as soon as possible, and other times where we wait for the release date. Personally, I think it can be unfair to add the information as soon as possible due to some people getting access before others, whereas waiting for the digital release date gives a singular date, similar to books or comics. Rsand 30 (talk) 19:11, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
• Regarding using spoiler tags for "non-narrative" media such as reference books, I suppose it makes sense not to - unless someone can bring a good counter-example? That being said, codifying a more or less exhaustive list of all "narrative" media types might be more of a challenge than it looks. Imperators II^(Talk) 08:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
• Regarding the differing release dates - even if Lewis is talking about US vs foreign releases and Rsand is talking about subscriber shipping dates vs digital access ones, I suppose both statements are comparable and, to me, seem to espouse diametrically opposite views:
  • One view is that is "unfair" to those who have the earlier access to a piece of media to have to wait before they can cover info from it until wider access is given.
  • The other view is that it's "unfair" to those who don't themselves have access to the piece of media that the info from it is already being covered.
• Personally, I find a bit strange those situations where media have been officially released but we still have to wait to cover info from them because not all have access to them. Imperators II^(Talk) 08:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I agree, though I of course see the opposite said that it could be not so great for those who were not getting it early if we did then start to cover it a month or so early. It's a bit of a strange one because either way someone is being indirectly penalised due to the location they live, and obviously that's not what we want Lewisr (talk) 13:14, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
    • But how is someone being penalized by another editor adding info about an item they can't yet get where they live? Spoilers are clearly marked, and if they want to know nothing about the item until they see it for themself, they surely won't be visiting its Wookieepedia page. Asithol (talk) 22:35, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
      • Except we don't mark spoilers for reference books. Rsand 30 (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
        • True, but reference books typically don't provide original spoilers (though they may repeat spoilers that have originated in narrative media). A reference book about a film that is released the same day as the film may be construed as containing "spoilers" for the film, but anyone who doesn't want spoilers would be avoiding that page anyway. Asithol (talk) 18:31, 20 April 2023 (UTC)