Forum:CT:Tense and CSWECite in MOS

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The result of the debate was Support all. Imperators II(Talk) 11:29, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello there. Going off of several issues brought up by new Wookieepedia users on the Discord, I've got a few proposals for some small amendments to the Manual of Style and the Sourcing policy. Imperators II(Talk) 22:47, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Vote 1: OOU tense

Right now, the Manual of Style specifies that "All in-universe articles should be in past tense [...]" which is all fine and good but unfortunately it fails completely to bring up in the same place the simultaneous requirement for certain out-of-universe articles and/or their sections to be written in present tense. The Layout Guide does contain some specific examples of articles that should be doing the latter, but I'd also like for the Manual of Style to acknowledge that in the abovementioned passage, even if just briefly. I propose that we add as the last paragraph under the "Tense" section of MoS the following passage:

"On the other hand, certain types of out-of-universe (dealing with real world topics) articles and/or their sections (see here for some specific examples) should be written in present tense."

Support

  1. Imperators II(Talk) 22:47, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  2. Seems fair to be specific here Fan26 (Talk) 22:51, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  3. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 22:57, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  4. OOM 224 23:07, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  5. Dropbearemma LesbianRebellion (she/her) 23:42, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  6. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 00:06, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  7. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  8. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 00:37, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  9. 01miki10 Open comlink 00:39, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  10. HeadSpikesWalls (she/they) RainbowRebellion2 (talk!) 17:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
  12. Dentface (talk) 21:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

  • Would it be worth noting that articles on people who have died and companies that have shut down should be written in the past rather than the present tense? VergenceScatter (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
    • The proposed addition doesn't say that all sections of all OOU articles should always be present-tense, plus I'd say this is beyond the scope of this and can be added through another vote. Imperators II(Talk) 23:45, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Vote 2: CSWECite multiple entry template parameter naming

Right now, {{CSWECite}} is used, among other uses, in referencing to indicate that a subject has been mentioned in multiple entries of The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia but does not have an entry of its own. This is achieved via the use of the |jang parameter of the template. The parameter was named that way in reference to User:JangFett back when it was first adopted in 2014.

I propose that we rename said parameter of CSWECite to something that would be at least somewhat intuitive and descriptive for new users, i.e., |multiple.

Support

  1. Imperators II(Talk) 22:47, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  2. No disprespect to Mr. JangFett, whoever the heck he is, but 'tis odd to not identify a paremeter with something relevant to that parameter's purpose, aye. Fan26 (Talk) 22:52, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  3. If Jang wanted this kept he shouldn't have stopped editing... JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 22:57, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  4. OOM 224 23:07, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  5. Dropbearemma LesbianRebellion (she/her) 23:42, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  6. It is weird to have a template parameter named after an editor. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  7. r u a jedi master, jang? GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 00:37, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  8. 01miki10 Open comlink 00:39, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  9. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 11:44, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  10. HeadSpikesWalls (she/they) RainbowRebellion2 (talk!) 17:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
  11. Having the jang parameter isn't supper intuitive. VergenceScatter (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
  12. Lewisr (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
  13. Dentface (talk) 21:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

  • Since this is used only when multiple entries mention a subject but it's not in its own entry, should the field indicate such a case like "multipleonly" as multiple seems to imply just appearing in multiple entries, without the extra bit. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 00:09, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
    • I think that for brevity's sake we can keep it to just "multiple" and let the template's documentation and the Sourcing policy to do the extra job of explaining the finer details of its usage. Imperators II(Talk) 08:47, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Vote 3: CSWECite multiple entry template parameter usage

While we're on the topic of the multiple-entry parameter of the CSWECite template, the Sourcing policy currently says this:

"Additionally, if a subject does not have an entry of its own and is referenced in more than 3 individual entries, the item will be formatted as such in the Sources list: *The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (Mentioned in multiple entries) — {{CSWECite}} has a specific parameter for this purpose: {{CSWECite|jang}}"

Notice the part where it says "more than 3 individual entries".

  1. Widespread precedent for using the parameter for cases where a subject is mentioned in 2+ entries,
  2. the phrasing of the text which the parameter adds ("Mentioned in multiple entries"), and
  3. the reasoning behind the implementation of the parameter (which can be found in the log of the first Mofference of 2014)

...are all reasons why this wording should be changed to the following (the changed bit is "more than one entry"):

"Additionally, if a subject does not have an entry of its own and is referenced in more than one entry, the item will be formatted as such in the Sources list: *The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (Mentioned in multiple entries) — {{CSWECite}} has a specific parameter for this purpose: {{CSWECite|jang}}"

Support

  1. Imperators II(Talk) 22:47, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  2. Fan26 (Talk) 22:54, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  3. OOM 224 23:07, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  4. Dropbearemma LesbianRebellion (she/her) 23:42, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
  5. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 00:11, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  6. Rsand 30 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  7. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 00:37, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  8. 01miki10 Open comlink 00:39, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
  9. HeadSpikesWalls (she/they) RainbowRebellion2 (talk!) 17:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
  10. VergenceScatter (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
  11. Lewisr (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
  12. Dentface (talk) 21:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

  • NB: the name of the CSWE parameter may be changed pending on the outcome of this thread's vote 2. Imperators II(Talk) 22:47, 27 December 2022 (UTC)