Forum:CT:Retiring the Mofference

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Retiring the Mofference
This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was support proposal. Tommy-Macaroni 20:12, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

It's me again, returning to kill another long-serving site feature. This serves as a follow-on from Forum:SH:Mofferences (which itself spawned from Forum:SH:Discord and IRC). To summarise the reasoning for retiring the Mofference:

  • Having policy discussions in real-time promotes rushing through things (especially for items towards the end of the meeting). This results in proposals being passed without opportunity for people to fully discuss, research, and consider their consequences. This isn't helped by the vague proposals listed on the Mofference page.
  • It can be difficult to keep up with a dozen people talking over each other, especially if English isn't your first language, and important points can be (and often are) missed.
  • People may be more reluctant to bring up concerns with proposals out of fear of holding up proceedings.
  • Mistakes often happen, like incorrect voting headers or missing items or whatever. If we're lucky, we can backtrack and fix them. But sometimes we don't notice until the meeting is over.
  • Mofferences are quite inaccessible. Now, I don't mean IRC, but rather time zones. No matter when we hold a Mofference, some people will undoubtedly miss out because it's 4 AM for them. Additionally, Saturday nights can be…difficult for some of us. With no allowance for absentee notes, people who cannot attend miss out on the opportunity to give their opinions on matters, so proposals aren't assessed by the entire community.
  • Although Mofferences are useful to quickly pass proposals, you still have to wait for one to be held to get your proposal passed. A CT can easily reach a Curb Stomp with our high community numbers nowadays, so waiting 5 days is definitely quicker than potentially waiting months for the next Mofference.
  • Mofferences also take time and effort behind the scenes. Although I enjoy hosting, it is stressful, and I normally have to set aside a considerable amount of time to get a script prepared so we can move quickly. We also have to ensure the bot is ready, and it all takes time.
  • It's no secret that IRC use is declining. Continuing the Mofference exclusively on that platform lowers attendance further, while bringing it to Discord would present a whole new set of questions concerning privacy and ethics.

Ultimately, such a rushed event just isn't conducive to the high-quality proposals Wookieepedia prides itself on. Everything the Mofference does can be done via CT. Sure, it may take a little longer, but for the sake of the proposals being more visible, discussed, and considered, I think it's a fair trade-off.

Mofferences are good fun and an important part of our site's heritage. But I think we need to think practically about the severe limitations that come from this system. Now, on the SH thread, many of us voiced an interest in keeping the Mofference as some social group/policy discussion meeting. I think these are great ideas, and the administration has plans to trial some of these in the future. Although some would like these to happen under the Mofference name, I don't think that'd be a great idea, as we'd have to partially archive WP:M, keeping the old logs in place while dedicating the rest of that space to explaining the new system. I think it'd be a lot clearer and less confusing if any new meetings we set up happen under an entirely new name, which could then be afforded a whole new page if necessary.

Therefore, I propose that we retire the Mofference. Wookieepedia:Mofferences will be archived, and any future Mofferences will be prohibited. Additionally, any mention of the Mofference on any policy page or other Wookieepedia namespace page shall be removed. These include, but are not limited to: Wookieepedia:Discord, Wookieepedia:Welcome, newcomers, Wookieepedia:Complete list of shortcuts, Wookieepedia:Shortcuts, Wookieepedia:FAQ, Wookieepedia:IRC, Wookieepedia:Glossary, Wookieepedia:Consensus, Wookieepedia:Administrators' how-to guide, Wookieepedia:Administrators' reading list, Wookieepedia:Voting eligibility policy, and Wookieepedia:Talk page policy.

Voting

Support

  1. Tommy-Macaroni 20:12, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  2. Just like I said on the SH forum, I personally agree that this is the right move. I also like the idea Fred and SE have about reorganizing Mofference into fun events, such as movie night, game night, and whatever else. I bid you Dark Farewells, Mofference! Erebus Chronus (Talk) 20:19, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  3. ~support 01miki10 Open comlink 20:22, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  4. As discussed on SH, full support. Dark Farewells! We world will never see me again roleplay a lawyer. Probably for the best ^^. -- NanoLuukeCloning facility 20:29, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  5. Cwedin(talk) 20:30, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  6. Braha'tok enthusiast (Hello there) 20:31, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  7. ~support OOM 224 ༼༽talk༼༽ 20:32, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  8. As fun as they are, Mofferences are part of a bygone era, especially as we push for a more inclusive and welcoming future. While I do have a number of ideas for some community building events as well, I agree with Tommy that starting these under a fresh heading is the best option, both for technical reasons, and to promote a fresh start. I bid thee dark farewell. Supreme Emperor (talk) 20:35, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  9. A shame I never made it to one. JediMasterMacaroniAdmiral Ackbar RH(Talk) 20:37, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  10. ^ likewise. Wish I was able to attend one, but that was part of the problem. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 20:44, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  11. RIP. IFYLOFD (Talk) 20:44, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  12. I'm gonna miss them, but this is the best decision.DarthRuiz30 (talk) 20:45, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  13. Full support. Especially given that the one I missed was on a Saturday which isn't ideal. JediVahGilns (talk) 20:56, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  14. 1358 (Talk) 20:59, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  15. Nothing to really add beyond what I said in the Senate Hall, so definitely a full support. Ayrehead02 (talk) 21:04, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  16. Dark Farewells indeed. May Moff Hissa forgive us. RattsT (talk) 21:09, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  17. Same as Jedi Master Macaroni Ramsay Sanders (talk) 21:16, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  18. VergenceScatter (talk) 21:20, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  19. Cumulonimbus Cloud MonMothmaSymbol-RebelDossier 22:48, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  20. Liverpool92Ackbar HS 23:03, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  21. I could never get my head around how to use the IRC. Andykatib 23:24, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  22. Yes please, since I live in Australia, I couldn't attend the Mofferences due to the fact I would be sleeping at that time. —Tomotron Revanchist Sith (Star Forge) 01:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  23. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 01:08, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  24. Commander Code-8 Hello There! 02:29, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  25. Mofferences were a fun tradition (at least in concept, having to show up at 5 AM in reality not so much :P) and they'll be missed, but there is definitely the issue of practicality. There are better ways to go about proposals and discussion of policy. Zed42 (talk) 02:56, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  26. JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 03:06, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  27. I never saw just how much Mofferences were inaccessible because they were always at times I could realistically make and I was always privy to proposals beforehand. I'm definitely seeing how they don't serve the entire community, and since community is a huge part of our culture here, it's for the best that we retire them. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 03:19, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  28. Rakhsh (talk) 06:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  29. JRT2010 (talk) 06:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  30. Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 12:52, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  31. Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
  32. Yeah, I liked the social aspect, but it's apparent to me now that they're not a good vehicle for passing policy. Fan26 (Talk) 14:05, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion