Forum:CT:Leia Skywalker Organa Solo

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Leia Skywalker Organa Solo
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The result of the debate was Move Canon Leia Organa article to Leia Skywalker Organa Solo. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk)

Since Leia Organa is identified as Leia Skywalker Organa Solo in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: Expanded Edition, I myself and several others have agreed that this should warrant the article's move to the latter namespace, though not without opposition. Nevertheless, a majority of those on the talk page supported the name change, and the discussion seems to have died off so I'm opening this CT. My view is thus:

Although Leia only thought of herself as Leia SOS for a few moments, which means this may not be a long-lasting change of identity, Leia, per the talk page discussion, identified herself by this full name in her last moments, which complies with our naming policy of taking the identity of a character at their last moments and supersedes the shorter name "Leia Organa."

As such, it is of my opinion that Leia Organa should be moved to Leia Skywalker Organa Solo. I understand that this would be a drastic change, so what do we all think about this?

Support

  1. CIS roundel OOM 224 ༼༽{talk}༼༽ 16:50, June 11, 2020 (UTC)
  2. --Lewisr (talk) 13:29, June 14, 2020 (UTC)
  3. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 13:37, June 14, 2020 (UTC)
  4. --Editoronthewiki (talk) 13:43, June 14, 2020 (UTC)
  5. 1358 (Talk) 09:56, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  6. This is the latest, more specific name. Therefore, per policy, the page must exist here. If people search for any other alt names, they will be redirected here. SEO does not trump our policies and requirements of specificity. Tommy-Macaroni 09:59, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  7. Braha'tok enthusiast (Hello there) 10:00, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  8. Imperators II(Talk) 10:04, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  9. By the opposition's rationale, we should move every one of our articles to the most reader-friendly, lowest-common-denominator name. Which means Thrawn, Jabba the Hutt, TIE fighter. This is why redirects exist, people. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 10:10, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  10. No matter how much I personally dislike this name, it's still mandated by policy. 01miki10 Open comlink 10:38, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  11. Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:45, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  12. Fan26 (Talk) 14:29, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  13. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 18:29, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  14. Per miki, I hate it. But it's the most complete name. - JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 18:45, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  15. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 19:59, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  16. "I don't like it. I don't agree with it. But I accept it." Zed42 (talk) 21:05, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  17. Indeed, per JMAS. Corellian PremierJedi symbolThe Force will be with you always 21:09, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  18. lmao this name sucks IFYLOFD (Talk) 00:50, June 16, 2020 (UTC)
  19. Brules Brules signature Talk 01:07, June 16, 2020 (UTC)
  20. Ditto miki; a revolting title but nonetheless the most accurate I think. Wok142 (talk) 17:13, June 17, 2020 (UTC)
    --Editoronthewiki (talk) 17:33, June 17, 2020 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: User has already voted -- Tommy-Macaroni 20:54, June 17, 2020 (UTC))

Oppose

  1. A more important question than "Can we find some technicality on which to justify this change?" is "Does this change serve our readers?" The answer to that question is pretty clearly "no." The redirect will help out the odd reader who happens to search for that clunky name stew. Most readers will find Leia in the more expected place. Asithol (talk) 09:13, June 15, 2020 (UTC)

Comments

  • In response to Asithol's comment: If we were to follow this, every clone trooper article would be located at their nicknames instead of their numbers. For other characters, e.g. AZI-345211896246498721347 would be at "AZI-3". This would disrupt a lot of existing status articles. This will also break Rule 1 of the naming policy, which is to use the character's formal name for the article title. As OOM pointed out, this move complies with the policy.
Rule 2 under General rules states: "Whenever two or more names are used by a character simultaneously (adopted names included), use the most commonly known of those names (example: Both Star Wars Legends Palpatine and Dooku were commonly known under their given names, which they continued to use alongside their Sith titles, so those names are preferred for the respective articles). Exceptions may apply to characters who prominently identify as a certain name despite their public persona. A prime example is Canon Darth Sidious, who was publicly known as Palpatine but self-identified as Darth Sidious at the end of his life."
Leia identified herself with that name moments prior to her death, which is a similar example to Sidious/Palpatine. Therefore, I believe the page should be moved as such to reflect this. UberSoldat93 ClanMudhornSignet-Redemption (talk) 10:07, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  • The two situations are rather different: Darth Sidious used that name for over a decade, and was known to many others by that name. A stray deathbed thought should not redefine Leia's identity from how she was known in life. I'll go ahead and go on record now for whatever omniscient narrator is chronicling our world for some higher dimension's Earthipedia: if, moments before I die, my failing brain happens to produce the thought "I would like to be known as Zim Zom Zam Zammerman of Zallatobia," please disregard me.
It's telling that all the support is based in technicalities of policy, and none of it is saying "yeah, this will really help readers." And the observation "this is why redirects exist" works both ways: redirects can also point from the obscure name to the known one (and in fact one already does). Asithol (talk) 10:42, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  • Wookieepedia exists to provide people with accurate information. We should reflect what is, which, in regards to a character, should remain faithful to the more accurate name the individual identifies itself by. Albeit not commonly known as "Skywalker Organa Solo", this is what Leia was. It's precisely why readers come here—to learn about the characters and laws and events in Star Wars, including the name by which individuals ultimately identify themselves by. - - -CIS roundel OOM 224 ༼༽{talk}༼༽ 14:28, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  • But I'm not arguing that the information should be omitted from the article or otherwise suppressed; quite the opposite. We're just talking about the article name here. The article content should absolutely include that full name as an important piece of the canon. I'm arguing that a stray deathbed thought does not change the core of her identity. If she introduced herself that way in very formal situations, or if that were the name printed on her pilot's license, that would argue for that name being an accurate representation. But none of those things are the case, at least as far as has been documented in canon. Moving this article feels like pedantry for the sake of pedantry, rather than because it serves the readers. (And it's not often in Wookieepedia debates that the majority is arguing to be more pedantic than me, so that's saying something.) Asithol (talk) 20:32, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  • Well, I would say a deathbed thought is the ultimate reflection of one's identity, but who am I to talk about an individual's dying thoughts? In any case, shouldn't an article's name be a reflection of the actual content? The current status of the page might confuse readers such as this one who don't know about the full name, see the infobox and intro including the Skywalker and Solo parts, but assume the article content is incorrect since the name of the page is simply "Leia Organa." If we're going to change the content, then we should also change the article name. - - -CIS roundel OOM 224 ༼༽{talk}༼༽ 20:49, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
  • You are in the clear majority on your idea of dying thoughts. But yeah, the article's current wording is definitely confusing. If it stayed at the current name (which it obviously won't), for maximal accuracy it should start out something like "Leia Organa, born Leia Amidala Skywalker and who fleetingly thought of herself as Leia Skywalker Organa Solo as she lay dying..." (but with a little less snark). Asithol (talk) 23:51, June 15, 2020 (UTC)