Forum:CT:Italicizing article and short story titles

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Graestan(Talk) 23:26, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

It has come to my attention that there is some disagreement over whether we should be italicizing or placing within quotation marks the titles of articles within larger works and short stories. Most American style guides advocate quotation marks, and at least some of our templates reflect this. On the other hand, we don't always adhere to standard style rules here, and other templates are italicized. We really ought to make a decision on this, and make the result clear on both the Layout Guide and the Manual of Style, not to mention standardizing the templates. jSarek 20:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Use quotation marks for short stories, articles, and where otherwise recommended by style guides

  1. This is the way I've been doing it, and think we ought to be doing it. jSarek 20:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  2. I mainly want to have a consistent policy of some sort: selecting the one which more new users concerned with such things will recognize as "correct" should avoid conflicts (as we get with the infrequent but persistent attempts to correct our use of "sentient" - our adherence to canon has us use it rather than "sapient", but new users come by every couple of months to tell us we're doing it wrong.) —Silly Dan (talk) 20:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  3. The real question is which articles do we consider to fall under this rule? -- I need a name (Complain here) 22:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  4. TheAinMAP 23:38, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  5. Well...it's correct. Thefourdotelipsis 02:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  6. Per 4dot. And, it looks better for short stories. It makes it easier to distinguish them in the appearances list. -LtNOWIS 04:19, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  7. I would be tempted to vote Meh if I wasn't so perfectionist. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 04:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  8. Do we really want to be Birmingham? Havac 04:12, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  9. Despite being from Birmingham. :P Green Tentacle (Talk) 19:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  10. Not like I have to explain why I'm voting this way. Gonk (Gonk!) 16:03, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
  11. I've tried to do this for a long time. At minimum, I think it might be acceptable to stick with all italics for lists such as "Appearances", for "better looks" per some of the below comments, but use quotes when it's in a sentence, for example. —Xwing328(Talk) 21:29, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
    • I actually think that would be a great compromise. Perhaps when this particular vote dies down, a new proposal along those lines could be put forth. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
      • I concur. That's what CT is all about. Graestan(Talk) 22:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
  12. Per jSarek and Gonk. --Muuuuuurgh 05:38, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
  13. I just cannot vote against real-world style on this one. Sorry. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 18:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
  14. I suppose. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 17:15, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
  15. First of all, I dont think it looks that bad to use quotation marks and secondly, couldn't a bot do all the work? I never programmed a bot, but the only thing would be replacing ''[[<name of short story>]]'' with "[[<name of short story>]]". Pranay Sobusk ~ Talk 14:51, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
  16. What 4dot said. Anything that's not consistent can easily be fixed, and we can be consistent going forward. WhiteBoy 07:03, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
  17. --Eyrezer 08:02, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
  18. Shorter works should get quotes. It's common practice. ~ SavageBob 23:44, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Always use italics

  1. Many professional publications do indeed use quotations instead of italics for certain items, but, in the absence of any kind of template (Insider, Droids, Clone Wars), I'd rather we just stick with italics. I think it looks better. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:06, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Just to clarify/elaborate on my original comment, just for the sake of consistency, I think this is the best option. I believe it would look bad to list five items in a row in italics and then randomly use quotations on the sixth; it doesn't matter whether the source is an Essential Guide or a short story, IMO. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  2. It looks ok as it is --Jinzler 21:10, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Although it is not actually "always use italics" at the moment... --Eyrezer 21:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  3. Citing sources in a research paper or book is different from showing appearances on a wiki. We don't really need to point out the subtle OOU difference between a novel and a short story. Just italicize everything. Wildyoda 21:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
    • It's not just in citations. It's in every instance where you name the short work. This is the correct way to write: "In His Image" was included in the paperback version of Legacy of the Force: Betrayal. That's what my 2004 style guide says. -LtNOWIS 04:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
      • Right, but check out the What links here for the above example. Almost everything on that list is an IU article listing it only as an Appearance. IMO, if we're going to have a rule for consistency, we should base it on what's used the most. Wildyoda 14:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
    Per the planet masquerading as a user. Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:45, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  4. Very much per Wildyoda, and per long-standing precedent. Also, articles move around and sort of take on their own lives when it comes to Star Wars. Look at the Who's Who articles. Graestan(Talk) 23:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
  5. Meh, I would prefer to do it the "correct" way with quotations for short stories and articles, but always using italics will be an easier standard to maintain, and will result in fewer errors. DolukTalk 23:53, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Very, very per Doluk. I don't think anyone realizes that we've been doing it this way for four years now and changing it would entail hundreds of hours of needless work. There's really no reason to bother changing it, other than to make up rules that no reader would possibly care about. If even current nonfiction books that sell thousands of copies don't follow these 7-year-old and older style guides, why should we bother? Graestan(Talk) 00:02, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
      • You've been doing it this way, but it's been in no way universal. I've been using quotes where appropriate since I first came here in April of '05, and I'm not alone. To my knowledge, this has not been changed in even the most recent style guides. jSarek 01:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
        • I've also seen italics for most article and short story titles pretty much everywhere I look on the wiki since I've been browsing it nearly as long as you've been a user. The one real exception has been TV episodes, which I've—in start contrast with article titles—never seen in italics, pretty much anywhere. Graestan(Talk) 03:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  6. DarthDragon164BlackdragonDragon's Lair 00:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  7. Per Doluk. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 00:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  8. Definitely per this option. Mauser 03:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  9. Per Toprawa and Doluk. Cylka-talk- 04:53, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  10. --Borsk Fey'lya Talk 10:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  11. I can see merit in all three options, and I suppose it's not inconceivable that I'll change me mind and my vote. But, like on the image caption punctuation, I'm gonna go with the option that doesn't look like crap. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 16:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  12. Aye. --Michaeldsuarez Infinite Empire (Activate Holocron) 04:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  13. Finally decided. Chack Jadson (Talk) 22:36, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
  14. Changed my mind, this works a lot better. DC 18:53, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
  15. And it's all tied up thanks to Mecenarylord 22:15, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

No, we really ought NOT make a decision on this

Meh

  1. Meh. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say this. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 01:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  2. Uber Mehz. I don't like the extra workz involved. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 01:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
    You definitely hit it right on the spot, Culator. DC 02:23, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
  3. I agree with both DCs. Master JonathanJedi Council Chambers 05:22, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Comments

  • I just want to point our that as Ey said above, currently we use quotation marks instead of italics in some instances. I need to think about this some more. Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
    • We use quotations for television episodes, and Gonk recently tweaked the Adventure Journal templates to use quotes for AJ articles. It's not really wrong one way or another, but more of a stylistic preference. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Let me be clear that I'm not insisting that Wookieepedia adhere to a particular external style. We are a sufficiently large and established resource that we can develop our own style if we feel the need. I just don't think "we've always done it this way" is a compelling reason for a style policy to exist. I also don't think "it'd be so much work to change it" is a compelling reason to keep the status quo... the change need not be immediate, nor need it affect FA/GA passability.

In this case, in particular, I have on multiple occasions wished I could quickly determine whether something was an article IN a source, or a source of its own; this is an advantage of the quote method, and probably a major reason why it's so prevalent elsewhere. "Correct" is relative, but I think there are good reasons for making the quote method correct here.

As for aesthetic preference—which is really never a good reason in such matters :p —I personally consider it sloppy to just "italicize everything." Gonk (Gonk!) 18:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)