Forum:CT:Including Discussions on Discord

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Including Discussions on Discord
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The result of the debate was Support proposal. —spookywillowwtalk 18:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey, everyone! This'll be a pretty quick policy proposal I'm bringing forth on behalf of the moderator team, just with a very long preamble because those are very fun (the bully pulpit is a moderator's greatest tool), and I think it's important to view this motion along with the history preceding it.

Background

A few years ago I suggested privately to a then-administrator that we open Wookieepedia's Discord server up to members of our Discussions forum. It seemed like a no-brainer to me. Editors always need more recruits and research assistants, and forum users always need ideas for better posts, each closer to the wiki's vast array of knowledge in some way.

The forum actually had its own Discord server, run by Fandom staff along with moderators who advertised it frequently before their removal led to its decline into years of obscurity. I wasn't reminded about it until long after I joined the forum myself, and by then entire alternate networks had been built from the ground up, with one forum user after another dropping lines to anybody with a solid post record and a Discord tag in their bio.

Somewhere along the way I was picked up by a moderator, ArchieKE, and thrown into the mix of regulars who used Discord to brainstorm posts together and return those ideas back to the forum collaboratively. It was our temporary bandage solution as the forum lacked a space to push for quality control, since the previous moderators over-enforced it and the forum lacked the infrastructure to centralize it.

I was pretty excited to then learn that an official Discord server was in the works from mainstream Wookieepedia, and I rushed to log my fiftieth edit and join just before my promotion to moderator. That official Discussions server was soon retired by Fandom staff, and I figured that the forum regulars' pilgrimage across the Internet could finally reach somewhere we could work in an official capacity, backed by the stronger structure of the wiki and its editor base.

Then it turned out that none of the editors actually liked the forum at all. I expected them not to care, but there was actually outright disdain for its existence. Just a few days ago I learned from admin Spookywilloww that the same former admin who opposed including Discussions users had barred any editor with a Discussions post count above zero from his consideration for status article review board membership. My fellow moderators had long already resolved not to bother with any of this. We actually had an idea for a separate wiki just because we knew our plans for a forum index wouldn't have been welcomed on a page here at the time (for now we have the ThreadHub project). Despite that, I figured I'd just talk about the forum on the server anyway, since I was too new to be worn down yet and figured I might get somebody to bend.

With that in mind, I might've cheered out loud when I saw Lewisr bring up the revived Ask An Editor A Question thread on the server without any prompting. More strides were made when supplementary polls were allowed and promoted as part of Wookieepedia's Character of the Year voting. Little things like that began to trickle through for us to work with. No forum users on Discord, though, or at least not ones who weren't already editors.

The time eventually came around within the last two years when the newer lineup of admins opened up a fully public channel on the server for open discussions and a private channel to finally work directly with us mods. It was fantastic, and if we skip ahead to the modern day, a public channel for spoiler discussions is now up too! We're in a new age, with Discussions officially recognized by codified policy on the wiki and active outreach from editors to learn more about the forum. Dropbearemma recently started a survey on how to make the wiki more accessible to the forum demographic, and the forum regulars now have Ask A Reg A Question to help out people who are new to their corner of the site and its unique way of doing things.

Still I wonder about those first few off-site spaces of people who wanted to make a bigger impact with what they wrote on the forum, and how many of them didn't stick around to see the better spaces we have now (current worry revolves around our heavy lifter ArtooD2 losing some hope). We basically solved the platform divide; I hear more editors talk about remaining dissonance like it's some big mystery where more barriers remain to be lowered. This oral history points to Discord for answers.

It's a user divide we have to fix up now, and luckily the same editors who've noticed it are the same ones who can vote to change it around. You all put such extensive effort into recruiting new community members from social media, and I'd like to ask that the same, if not more, be done for the large group of community members who are already here on the forum contributing as Wookieepedians in their own right.

Policy Changes

This is all we're after: full server access for any Discussions forum user with at least 200 posts, no different than what any editor with 50 edits can see. I propose:

  1. to revise Wookieepedia:Discord in its current form to reflect these new criteria with the edits shown below,
  2. by extension to add information about the 200-post bar to any portion of site policy that might currently exist elsewhere and only mention the 50-edit bar, and
  3. to update the server's wiki bot verification settings to automatically give users the “Wookieepedians” role if they meet the minimum edit or post count.

Getting verified (current version)

To access channels outside the lobby, you must be verified by an administrator. To be eligible for verification, you need a registered Fandom account with over 50 edits on Wookieepedia. You can check your personal edit count here.

  1. Join the server.
  2. Check your edit count here: Only Wookieepedians with over 50 edits are eligible for verification.

No middle passages here will be changed.

  1. If you used method 1: Send !wiki verify <username> (replace <username> with your Wookieepedia username) in #request-verification. You will be automatically verified if you have at least 50 edits on the wiki.

Getting verified (proposed revision)

To access channels outside the lobby, you must be verified by an administrator. To be eligible for verification, you need a registered Fandom account with over 50 edits on Wookieepedia or 200 posts on its Discussions forum. You can check your personal edit count here and your post count here on your profile.

  1. Join the server.
  2. Check your edit count here or post count here: Only Wookieepedians with at least 50 edits or 200 posts are eligible for verification.

No middle passages here are changed.

  1. If you used method 1: Send !wiki verify <username> (replace <username> with your Wookieepedia username) in #request-verification. You will be automatically verified if you have at least 50 edits on the wiki or 200 posts on the forum.

Support

  1. As proposer. Jedi Sarith LeKit (talk) 01:17, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  2. Something I have envisioned for quite a long time, thank you for finally putting this out there Sarith. Jade Moonstroller (talk) 01:26, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  3. Very well done! —SnowedLightning (they/them) 01:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  4. Discussions is a lovely place to be. Indeed, echoing what was said above about the outright and firm hostility toward Discussions in the past due to a previous administrator, and that I'd been advised never to engage with it on my path to the EduCorps at the time. However, recently it's been a wonderful space to dive into, and mending the gap between the two communities is essential going forward. Great work!—spookywillowwtalk 01:54, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  5. Fan26 (Talk) 02:18, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  6. Lewisr (talk) 02:20, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  7. Dentface (talk) 04:20, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  8. LucaRoR Sigil of House Serenno (Talk) 07:12, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  9. OOM 224 (he/him) 08:08, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  10. Hopefully we meet a few Kilji enthusiasts. :P Samonic Signatureicon (Talk) 08:50, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  11. Imperators II(Talk) 09:15, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  12. NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 10:37, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  13. Rsand 30 (talk) 12:06, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  14. Rakhsh (talk) 12:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  15. 01miki10 Open comlink 12:46, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
    Sounds great LeKit!! Eaglewing2444 Imperial Emblem (Talk) 15:37, 6 April 2023 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Additional provisions, item 1 -- Imperators II(Talk) 19:10, 6 April 2023 (UTC))
  16. an interesting proposal, excites to see where it goes. BloodOfIriziSabine Starbird(Syndicure) 17:01, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
  17. - Thannus (DFaceG) (he/him) (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
    I think "or Discussions moderator" should be added to the line "To access channels outside the lobby, you must be verified by an administrator.", I'll support this either way though. ℳÅℕ☉❂Ⅎ (he/him/his) RainbowRebellion2 14:00, 9 April 2023 (UTC) (Vote struck, reason: Per policy: Blocked user -- OOM 224 (he/him) 16:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC))

Oppose

Discussions (pun intended)

If this passes, please let one of us moderators know when the server bot is updated with the new verification criteria, and then we can cleanly announce the change to the forum. Also, I know that this comes right on the heels of the wiki receiving some excessive and hostile public attention, but I still feel it's acceptable to pass this motion regardless of the timing. The server as far as I've seen hasn't been swarmed with trolls, and I know for a fact that the forum is largely oblivious to wiki news (the average forum user doesn't even know an admin recently resigned in the first place). Jedi Sarith LeKit (talk) 01:17, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

  • If Discussion users are gaining full access to the Discord, I think those users should be involved in future CTs that affect Discord changes (Past ones including the VIP rules IIRC). At the moment our rules don't allow for that, has it been discussed how to handle that? NBDani TeamFireballLogo-Collider(they/them)Yeager's Repairs 10:36, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
    • It actually has! That's where the number 200 came from, as we had talked with admins and a few other interested people about writing a moderator election policy just to have for the far future. Forum users with at least 200 posts in the last six months could vote alongside users with 50 edits in that time, in theory for those elections and any Discussions or Discord policy page changes. Jedi Sarith LeKit (talk) 01:57, 7 April 2023 (UTC)