Forum:CT:Amend MoS pronoun guidance

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Amend MoS pronoun guidance
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The result of the debate was support proposal. Tommy-Macaroni 09:28, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

This proposal is to make a minor amendment to the Manual of Style's treatment of gender. Currently, the first clause reads, "Do not use the plural pronouns 'they,' 'them,' or 'their' to refer to individuals of unspecified gender." On September 13th, Fandom posted specific guidelines on pronoun usage, affirming the singular pronoun "they" as "natural English language for a person you don’t know the gender of." This follows the new rules posted in June, which forbid exorsexism (which has been defined as "prejudice/actions that negatively reinforce the gender binary"). The American Psychological Association has also moved in this direction with their style guide; for further discussion, see the blog they posted about their seventh edition in 2019. The singular "they" is grammatically correct, and used within Star Wars for characters like Ceret, Terec, and Kantam Sy.

This CT proposes to remove "plural" from the existing clause to make it clear that we comply with Fandom's guidelines and to avoid grammatical guidance that is incorrect, leaving the following rule in place:

Do not use the pronouns "they," "them," or "their" to refer to individuals of unspecified gender

This does not change any actual current usage, just corrects the phrasing. This CT is a stopgap measure for an evident problem. There are plans to start an SH discussion later to talk about whether this wiki should allow the use singular "they" for characters who do not use "they" as a personal pronoun, but as that discussion is likely to have more dimensions and require some research and thought, I ask that we save it for that time.

Support

  1. Minnabird Naboo (talk) 03:05, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  2. Support — YakovChaimTzvi ChissAscendancyCanonSymbol (talk) 03:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  3. Not because of what Fandom says, but because it's the most logical thing to do. VergenceScatter (talk) 03:15, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  4. Supreme Emperor Holocomm 03:27, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  5. Manoof (he/him/his) (talk) 03:28, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  6. Zed42 (talk) 03:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  7. Immi Thrax RainbowRebellion2 (talk) 03:33, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  8. Looking forward to participating in a later SH discussion about the use of that pronoun, though. Lelal Mekha The Uprising crest (Audience Room) 06:20, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  9. Ayrehead02 (talk) 07:32, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  10. Tommy-Macaroni 07:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  11. Wok142 (talk) 07:58, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  12. Imperators II(Talk) 08:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  13. The Manual of Style does not need to document basic writing rules and singular "they" is accepted as correct by every reputable dictionary and writing resource I've checked. Simply removing that part, like the proposal here, is the right thing to do. 1358 (Talk) 09:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  14. Braha'tok enthusiast Hello there 09:51, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  15. NBDani (talk) 10:41, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  16. 01miki10 Open comlink 11:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  17. Efe Önem (talk) 11:47, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  18. IFYLOFD (Talk) 13:16, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  19. Lewisr (talk) 14:05, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  20. Jedi Order ImpacticForce (Talk) 14:05, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  21. OOM 224 15:40, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  22. I'm happy to learn and change my writing style in a way that reinforces inclusivity and how to properly treat pronouns. Definitely support this. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 15:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  23. Singular "they" has been a valid definition in Oxford dictionaries for decades, and has been used in literature since 1375. Ramsay Sanders (talk) 19:25, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  24. DarthRuiz30 (talk) 20:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  25. I mean, our official language is American English, so it only makes sense for us to adhere to it. MasterFredCommerce Guild(talk) 21:41, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  26. Editoronthewiki (talk) 22:12, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  27. Per Fred and Ecks Fan26 (Talk) 23:21, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  28. Commander Code-8 Hello There! 05:23, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  29. Snowball! JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 05:28, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  30. Dentface (talk) 12:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  31. Cumulonimbus Cloud MonMothmaSymbol-RebelDossier 19:10, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  32. infectedzombieguyWedgeAntillesHelmet-SWHC4(Talk to me!) 21:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  33. Cade GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Calrayn 00:49, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

  • Haven't been editing enough lately to have a vote but just voicing my support :) honestly makes me want to cry tears of joy from how much amazing work everyone has done on here the last 6 months! <3 Toqgers (talk) 13:53, 16 September 2021 (UTC)