Forum:CT:Amend MOS for BTS quotations

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The result of the debate was adopt proposal. 1358 (Talk) 20:55, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

A point has come up requiring clarification regarding the use of quoted material in "behind the scenes" sections. As it stands, the Manual of Style section on quotations has a strict limitation on the use of quotations:

A quote used in a Wookieepedia article should only include:
  1. Text that is presented within actual quotation marks, or otherwise clearly marked as spoken dialogue.
  2. Text that is clearly presented within the confines of someone's memoirs, journal, or diary. This includes in-universe written works, such as catalogs, news reports, historical chronicles, government documents, personnel dossiers, and the like.
A quote is NOT:
  1. Narrative prose that is not actual spoken dialogue or a character's personal memoirs, journal, or diary. This means that thoughts are not considered quotable material.

That's it. A quote in an article should ONLY include those things. That would exclude the use of quotes from authors, narrative text, characters' thoughts, etc., in the "behind the scenes" sections where needed to illustrate a point or otherwise enrich an article.

It seems excessively restrictive. Furthermore, it contradicts what is already in common practice, as seen in some randomly selected FAs like Mermeia, Firmus Nantz, Fourth Battle of Kuat, Parella Jiramma Baco, Argazdan, #Behind_the_scenes|Ackmena... I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

So I propose an additional section be added below the above excerpt stating the following:

A quote used in the "behind the scenes" section of an in-universe article (or anywhere, in an entirely out-of-universe article) may contain any properly cited and formatted text required to supplement the information presented in that section and is not subject to the preceding content restrictions. Such a quote may include any text content relevant to Wookieepedia's areas of interest and relevant to the article text it accompanies. Quotes including narrative text and thoughts, specifically, should be reserved strictly for illustrative purposes and not for general use. Quotes with this kind of otherwise prohibited content may not be used outside of an out-of-universe section or article.

Make sense? I think so. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 22:44, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Voting

Support

  1. Darth Culator (Talk) 22:44, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
  2. Ah, the discussion powers of the IRC. We actually got something done. Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 22:45, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
  3. Sure.--Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 22:51, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
  4. Take it on home. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:45, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Dat IRC. Winterz (talk) 23:47, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
  6. Hunterj | My talk 00:09, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  7. —MJ— Jedi Council Chambers 04:48, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  8. A bit wordy for my tastes in execution, but the premise itself is sound. jSarek (talk) 09:56, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  9. grunny@wookieepedia:~$ 11:07, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  10. Quotes...must have quotes. Corellian PremierJedi symbolThe Force will be with you always 14:38, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  11. Good to go.—Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 15:55, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  12. JangFett (Talk) 16:46, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  13. —Jedi Kasra ("Indeed.") 16:22, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  14. 1358 (Talk) 19:14, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  15. Per JSarek – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 06:50, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
  16. Green Tentacle (Talk) 20:48, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

I do not agree that any type of properly cited content should be used as a quote in the BTS simply for the sake of enriching an article, because that smacks of just using a quote for the sake of using a quote, particularly in instances when it's not being used to illustrate a point. Specifically, I'm talking about narrative text, such as a novel. I'm ok with using narrative text as a quote in the BTS and in OOU articles only in the rare instance when it is required for demonstrative purposes. I would like to see a caveat in this proposal emphasizing the need to use narrative text sparingly, because I can definitely see this getting way out of hand. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:03, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

  • I should probably add that this goes for thoughts too. We used to use thoughts as quotes haphazardly as we would with any spoken dialogue until we specifically put a stop to that. I do not want to see thoughts as quotes returning to BTS sections just because they exist and can be used. There should be a specific, illustrative need to use them, otherwise they shouldn't be used at all. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:06, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
    • That would be why it says "required to supplement the information presented in that section." I don't see the need to be even more restrictive. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 23:12, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
      • I understand, but I still find the wording of that specific clause a little weak, respectfully speaking. I would like it to hammer home with perfect clarity the idea to use narrative text and thoughts, specifically, only in instances requiring additional illustration and not just for general use. You know as well as I do that Wookieepedians will find any loophole to push the envelope as much as they possibly can, and I see this as something that will likely be taken advantage of. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:24, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
  1. I agree that we need to make the use of these quotes official for BTS sections and out-of-universe articles, but I find the revised wording overly restrictive. If someone uses a BTS quote that others find inappropriate, I'd rather that the editors in question hashed it out and established consensus rather than being prescriptive from the outset. ~SavageBOB sig 16:26, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  2. Quote is a verb. Quotation is a noun. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 19:23, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

I agree with the aim of this CT, but why not simplify things by simply amending the current wording to say, "Outside "Behind the scenes" sections, a quote used in a Wookieepedia article should only include…" ~SavageBOB sig 16:18, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

  • Ah, never mind. I see the discussion above is trying to define what is an applicable BTS quote, not just to allow them. ~SavageBOB sig 16:26, March 6, 2013 (UTC)