Forum:CT:Adopt a converstion template for heights on characters

Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Adopt a converstion template for heights on characters

This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was against adopting conversion between metric and Imperial systems. Grunny (talk) 09:55, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Basically, the entire conversation is here. I think it would be beneficial of the wiki to add a conversion template for those that don't understand the metric system.--Christianrocker90 (talk) 07:54, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

For

Against

  1. Star Wars, like almost every country on Earth and every scientific and medical organization in the few countries that don't, uses the metric system. It is a part of grade school curricula in the United States; you have no excuse to not be at least somewhat familiar with it. Furthermore, even if you don't remember anything you learned in grade school, Google will do conversions for you, for free, instantly, with no error. Don't like metric? Sorry, but you're the one with the problem. jSarek 08:13, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
    Do you think I want to be siting here on Wookiepedia with Google on standby when you could easily and smartly solve the problem for hundreds of people by adding a convert template. *sigh* This wiki disappoints me for such quality articles.--Christianrocker90 (talk) 08:17, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Strongly per jSarek. Grunny (talk) 08:18, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  3. My phone can do conversions. I have a conversion table on the back of my notebook. I've learned to do rough conversions in my head. Seriously, it takes almost no effort to learn the metric system. If you round it off, a meter is roughly 3 feet. 2 meters is roughly 6 feet. How hard is that to understand? Trak Nar Ramble on 08:19, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  4. I think it would be beneficial to the wiki for everyone get at least some vague sense of the metric system and learn to use Google. Havac 08:28, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  5. I can't believe this is that big of an issue. Absolutely unnecessary. --Omicron 08:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  6. What an absolutely incredible waste of time. I am honestly impressed. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 09:27, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Per jSarek and Trak. Nayayen—TALK 10:20, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  8. For real? ToRsO bOy 13:25, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  9. Entirely per jSarek. Metric is used IU, which is why we use it, but Wookieepedia isn't exactly the only place where it's useful. And as Trak said, a metre isn't that much more than a yard so it's really not that hard. Green Tentacle (Talk) 13:38, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  10. It isn't that hard, I had to learn the thing other way around (from simple to more complicated)--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 13:42, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  11. Per GT, jSarek, and Culator. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 13:43, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  12. Don't fix things that aren't broken. Pranay Sobusk ~ Talk 14:05, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  13. Strongly per everyone. Cylka-talk- 15:14, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  14. - Esjs(Talk) 15:15, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  15. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 17:02, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  16. Per everyone, particularly Trak. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 17:20, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  17. Per Culator. -- 1358 (Talk) 17:21, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  18. Per everyone. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 17:27, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  19. Why am I so late to this party? Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:00, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  20. The metric system is more commonly used in both the real world and IU. If you don't know it yet, it would be worthwhile to get an understanding of it, both for purposes on Wookieepedia and elsewhere in life. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 03:09, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  21. I'm also amused by how he didn't vote in favor of his own motion. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 12:46, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
    • He can't. And now you understand the reason we implemented such a policy. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 13:06, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  22. Honestly? This is a pretty dumb idea. Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 14:44, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  23. Totally Necessary Vote. Chack Jadson (Talk) 23:33, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  24. JangFett (Talk) 23:34, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  25. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 23:54, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  26. Graestan(Talk) 00:22, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
  27. —Xwing328(Talk) 03:25, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
  28. This is the most one-sided debate I've ever seen here. DarthDragon164BlackdragonDragon's Lair 20:19, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
  29. Just because.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 13:09, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
  30. JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 13:11, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
  31. Per my reasoning below. ~ SavageBob 15:26, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
  32. Per Chack. JorrelWiki-shrinkableFraajic 17:54, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
  33. Also per Chack. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:11, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
    Per everyoneDarth Lutenas 15:13, March 28, 2010 (UTC) (Vote stricken per WP:SIV. -- 1358 (Talk) 15:19, March 28, 2010 (UTC))
  34. --Vandar Tokare42 08:36, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

  • I wonder if it would be worthwhile to make a "Wookieepedia:Units of measurement" page repeating the "metric and made-up IU units only in articles" policy. We could put links to it in the Manual of Style and some of the templates which include measurements, and include a few rough (+/- 10%) metric/US customary conversions. —Silly Dan (talk) 14:44, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • That might not be a bad idea, but that assumes that one kilometer and one parsec in-universe are the same as ours. They may not be, in the end. — Fiolli {Alpheridies University ComNet} 23:54, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
      • I can see it now... Ship lengths measured in cubits. Trak Nar Ramble on 03:33, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • Just an FYI, but various English measurements like foot, inch, mile, pint, and yard do already exist in canon. ~ SavageBob 04:29, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
    Really? Well that just furthers the opinion that the opposition to this is purely "We hate the American measurement system".--Christianrocker90 (talk) 09:28, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
    • No, the opposition is because its totally unnecessary. And, for the record, fully half of the users voting "no" here are American, based on information taken from their user pages. There may be more, but the info isn't readily available. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 09:46, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
      • You can be American and hate the American measurement system at the same time, so your argument there doesn't hold water. And how is it unnecessary to help a reader understand? This argument "you should learn it" is BS. You should want to help the reader not tell them "you're dumb for not knowing the metric system". So I stand by my accusation. So everyone's arguments have fallen to pieces. From "you should learn it" to "it's not canon". So are you gonna help the American readers who DON'T WANT to learn the metric system or not?--Christianrocker90 (talk) 12:37, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
        • The "you should learn it" argument has not "fallen to pieces." It's the "I'm an obtuse dope who doesn't want to join the 19th century, let alone the 21st" argument that is completely moot. Clearly the overwhelming majority doesn't want to humor your ignorance. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 13:02, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
          • Peut-être certaines personnes ne veulent pas apprendre l'anglais. Dans ce cas, devrions-nous traduire l'entièreté du wiki en français, espagnol, russe, etc. pour rendre l'accès au site plus facile? Non, dis-je! Il existe déjà des wiki de Star Wars en plusieurs langues. Si je veux, j'ai l'option de visiter fr.starwars.wikia.com, but since my native language is English and since most source material is English, I'd rather work from here. If you're incapable, or unwilling, to learn a very basic system, then see if there's an Imperial Wiki. Or establish one. Mais le système international est juste ça, international, et donc fonctionne pour tout le monde, et non simplement un petit coin. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 13:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
            • Okay, so you [Christianrocker] don't want to learn the metric system. I personally don't see why, it would be a useful skill to have if you don't already know it (I learnt the Imperial (UK equivalent) system despite being taught metric), but I'll accept that some people don't want to spend the time (however long or short that may be) to learn it. That means that you, like I'm sure the many other people that don't know the metric system who haven't raised this issue in the 5 years that Wookieepedia has been live, will have to open a new tab and quickly search the measurement on Google. I don't know why that is a problem. You ask if "[we] think I want to be siting here on Wookiepedia with Google on standby when you could easily and smartly solve the problem for hundreds of people by adding a convert template." Well, this CT is for the height in character articles. There should only be one number there because people can only reach a single maximum height so you won't need to have Google (which is a mere 4.36Kb page compared to the 22Kb of the Wookieepedia main page, which is a medium sized page here if the size is the issue) on standby: you only have to open it once. These measurements won't jump up on you in the middle of an article. Meanwhile, adding the conversion template would mean that someone has to convert ALL the character article heights to the American equivalent and leave all those articles with conversions that we don't know whether they are accurate in-universe or not. All because you seem oddly reluctant to use Google to quickly convert it. Yeah. And you wonder why everybody is voting against this... I recommend that you just accept the fact that this CT won't even come close to reaching "no consensus", let alone passing, before you get yourself blocked for disruption. Nayayen—TALK 13:44, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
            • First, I'd like to agree with Nayayen and Taral. This may be bias (I live in Australia), but IMO, the metric system is simply better. I do not see why you cannot take a short look at conversion rates. You could have learnt it much faster than the time it took for you to respond to all our comments. Besides, have you even bothered to consider that someone will have to spend hours going through every single article to add height calculations, all to cater for 1 person's unwillingness to spend a few minutes in their free time? I suggest you drop this topic. While you are entitled to your own opinion on this subject, this Wiki runs on consensus, and I can tell you right now that you won't get 33 votes of support. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 08:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • Now that I've slept on this, I'd say that if this CT has any leg to stand on, it's the fact that, as I showed above, foot, inch, etc. are already canon measurements. Arguably, by our NPOV policy, we shouldn't privilege one measurement system (Imperial meters) over another. Arguably. But the problem is that the English measurements that have been established as existing in canon are only mentioned here and there without any indication about whose measurements they are, or where they are used in-universe. In other words, by adding them, we wouldn't actually be addressing the NPOV problem, because we don't know whose POV they represent, if anyone's. Add to that that the overwhelming number of sources use metric, and I think we can safely ignore English units unless they are used in a source specifically with regard to a certain measurement (like with the Fleebogs). In short, there are some arguments for using English, but they are weak arguments and not at all compelling. ~ SavageBob 15:25, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • Personally, as an American, I think we're stupid for not converting to the metric system. It's used in many industries here in the US already, particularly the medical field which also uses Celsius rather than Fahrenheit to measure temperature - Darth Lutenas 15:22, March 28, 2010 (UTC)