Wookieepedia:Votes for deletion/England

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was no consensus, total rewrite may be necessary. —Silly Dan _(talk) 18:50, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

England

Conjecture at best, wishful fanwanking at worst. - Sikon 03:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep

1. Darth Culator ^(Talk)(TINC) 03:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
2. SFH 03:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
3. If it appears onscreen, it is canon. Adamwankenobi 04:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
4. —Silly Dan _(talk) 04:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
5. Needs image, though. -- Ozzel 04:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
6. Kuralyov 04:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
7. Temporary vote, contingent on finding clear visual proof. 146.151.69.209 06:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
   • How did I get logged out? Anyway, that was me, and I was supposed to be logged in. Havac 22:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
8. Contingent keep. I'm assuming on good faith that evidence for this exists, but if it doesn't turn up soon, move me to the delete column. jSarek 10:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
9. They goofed so it shows up. That deems anything in one of the movies to at least become notable, if not canonical. And who knows, they might actually be thinking up some good retcon for this. Unknown planet with a territory run by the Engs? -- Riffsyphon1024 17:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
10. Bub 17:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
11. Anguirus111 03:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
12. If it can be seen on the film. Someone provide visual evidence. VT-16 21:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete

1. Sikon 03:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
2. Give me a break.Valin Kenobi 03:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
3. Not telligible on film print = non exsistent. .... 04:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
4. Ozzel 05:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
5. Rhysode 06:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC) - You're joking.
6. As per thefourdoteclipse KEJ 10:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
7. Bonko 14:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
8. Yeah delete this fanon.HavetStorm 17:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep but rewrite as "urban legend"

1. We should write something on the claims that the needle says either "Made in England" or "British-made". However, I've come to the conclusion that the writing really is illegible, and that even if it is it should be treated as a blooper. —Silly Dan _(talk) 18:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
2. This is the last time I'm changing. Honest! -- Ozzel 22:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
3. Havac 20:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
4. Cutch 03:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
5. It is notable, but its canonicity is ambiguous at best. –Sentry^Talk 04:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
6. Yoshi626 21:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Comments

• If push comes to shove, we could always make a real world article on England. -- SFH 03:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• The needle clearly says something, and Google indicates that the legend is surprisingly widespread. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk)(TINC) 03:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• It might be worthwhile to keep it even if it can be proved to be as legendary as the theatrical release of ANH complete with the Tosche Station scenes. —Silly Dan _(talk) 04:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• Give me time to check my old VHS copy, I swear I've seen it. Thanos6 04:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• Does anyone have the ability to watch the upcoming HD broadcast of the film? Maybe that will reveal the word. Adamwankenobi 05:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Watch, yes. Record on my DVR, yes. Post screenshots, no. Stupid HD copy protection. And I have to wonder if the OT HD versions will be as incredibly good-looking as ROTS was. A lot of stuff on HBOHD/CinemaxHD is upconverted DVD video. -- Darth Culator^(Talk)(TINC) 05:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Is the copy protection implemented in hardware or software? Because if it's hardware, I will never buy an HD player even if everyone starts using this format. - Sikon 06:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
      • It's airing on a premium movie channel, and these channels are flagged in the MPEG2 stream as being able to copy them only on compliant hardware. So I can save them from cable to my digital video recorder, and if I had a D-VHS machine I could copy them to there. But the connection between my DVR and my computer is unsupported and unstable, so I can't save HD content that's got a 5C flag. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk)(TINC) 13:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• This is absolutely ludicrous. I can't believe you guys are seriously debating this. Even assuming it can be seen at all (and for what little it's worth, I'd never read about this anywhere, even as an urban legend), "England" is obviously not intended as an actual reference to anything in canon. Get real. To assume so, and to try to force it into G-continuity, would be hyperinclusionist fanwankery of the highest conceivable order. The echo chamber of nerddom has reached an illogical apotheosis in this very article. Which is a highfalutin way of saying it's horseshit.Valin Kenobi 05:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• It appears on screen, and unlike the X-wing and TIE Fighters that are easter eggs in Episode II, it hasn't been officially acknowledged as a mistake, so we must document it. Adamwankenobi 05:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't take this as a slam at your character or anything, but with due respect, that makes no sense whatsoever.--Valin Kenobi 05:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• I'm changing my vote, only because the image on the talk page doesn't show the text to be legible. It's no good if we can't actually verify it. -- Ozzel 05:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• Valin, if it's there, it's worthy of mention somewhere on this site. You forget - Wookieepedia is the *very definition* of hyperinclusionist fanwankery of the highest conceivable order, and we wouldn't have it any other way. jSarek 10:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Damn straight. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk)(TINC) 13:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Umm, I meant it like it was a bad thing. There's thorough, and then there's pedantically literalist. --Valin Kenobi 18:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Pedantic literalism is fun! -- Darth Culator ^(Talk)(TINC) 22:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• Even if it says made in England, Even if it was legible, we all know that it doesn't make the 'planet England' canon. Ideally this should be deleted, maybe moved to an 'urban legends' article, at least it should be reformatted to remove the conjecture and reflect it's non-canon status. HavetStorm 17:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• Our Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope article says the needle actually says "British-made." I call for a rewrite. —Silly Dan _(talk) 18:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
  • (Well, the version in Google's cache does, anyway. It's gone now.)—Silly Dan _(talk) 18:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Last May, a helpful anon changed an entry in the "Trivia" section from "Made In England" to "British Made" after seeing the prop in a museum. —Silly Dan _(talk) 22:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
• Even if someone can prove it, it's still just a production error, nothing more. I mean, is anyone suggesting that the second Han Solo seen reflected in the plexiglass when the Endor bunker explodes be retconned into a Force doppelganger? I sure hope not.--Valin Kenobi 18:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Per Riffsyphon; even if not canonical, still notable. jSarek 22:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please provide VISUAL evidence. So far we've got nothing to go on. As far as explanations go, if we could accept "tractor beam controls" in English writing for 27 years, in the very same film, this should be no different. VT-16 21:52, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

• The HD version isn't any more legible than the DVD. Either someone needs to get us a picture of the model, or we need to rewrite it as an OOU page. -- Darth Culator ^(Talk)(TINC) 00:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
  • The Technical Commentaries site took some pictures of it from an exhibition, there appears to be some kind of writing in red on top of the needle. Either that or it's just a measurement scale for the distribution of liquid inside. Impossible to tell from the pictures. VT-16 09:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)