- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Vandolay
- Nominated by: Hanzo Hasashi 23:36, March 21, 2011 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: The Empire's latex salesman?
(4 ACs/1 Users/5 Total)
Support
CC7567 (talk) 20:29, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- QuiGonJinn
(Talk) 10:01, April 20, 2011 (UTC) - Cavalier One
(Squadron channel) 13:12, April 26, 2011 (UTC) - Kilson(Let's have a chat) 21:00, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
- Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:48, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
Object
Attack of the Clone
Is there any way that you can reword the first paragraph of the intro? Much of the bio paragraph, from the description of his detention officer duties to his attaché role, reads almost exactly like it does in the intro. Please try to vary up the wording.- Attempted to do this.
In both the intro and the bio, the jump from Vandolay serving aboard the Executor to being present aboard the Avenger is rather sudden and is left unelaborated. Could you elaborate further about both parts to clarify the transfer somehow?- It is never made clear in the movies or the CCG why Vandolay was suddenly aboard the Avenger either. I attempted to somehow elaborate his being on the Avenger in the intro though.
- The bio would still benefit from some clarification—you can simply say that prior to the Battle of Hoth aftermath part, "Vandolay was eventually transferred to Captain Lorth Needa's Super Star Destroyer Avenger" without stating a reason for it. CC7567 (talk) 19:02, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- It is never stated whether he was transferred or not. For what it's worth, his bio on Yodapedia says that was probably a temporary task he was given on the Avenger, but I think there's really no proof one way or the other.
- Stating that he was "transferred" or "moved" will not be promoting fanon or unverified info; it does not necessarily mean that he was officially reassigned to the Avenger. However, the fact remains that at one point, he's on the Executor, and another moment, he's on the Avenger—if that's not a "move" of some sort, I'm not sure what it would be called. It still needs to be made clear that he did in fact move to the Avenger, regardless of whether the reasons behind it are known or not. If you have any other wording suggestions, I'm happy to hear them, but please try to fix this—the article can still be clearer here. CC7567 (talk) 20:04, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- Ok. Hanzo Hasashi 20:21, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- I got it. Hanzo Hasashi 20:28, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- Ok. Hanzo Hasashi 20:21, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- Stating that he was "transferred" or "moved" will not be promoting fanon or unverified info; it does not necessarily mean that he was officially reassigned to the Avenger. However, the fact remains that at one point, he's on the Executor, and another moment, he's on the Avenger—if that's not a "move" of some sort, I'm not sure what it would be called. It still needs to be made clear that he did in fact move to the Avenger, regardless of whether the reasons behind it are known or not. If you have any other wording suggestions, I'm happy to hear them, but please try to fix this—the article can still be clearer here. CC7567 (talk) 20:04, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- It is never stated whether he was transferred or not. For what it's worth, his bio on Yodapedia says that was probably a temporary task he was given on the Avenger, but I think there's really no proof one way or the other.
- The bio would still benefit from some clarification—you can simply say that prior to the Battle of Hoth aftermath part, "Vandolay was eventually transferred to Captain Lorth Needa's Super Star Destroyer Avenger" without stating a reason for it. CC7567 (talk) 19:02, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
- It is never made clear in the movies or the CCG why Vandolay was suddenly aboard the Avenger either. I attempted to somehow elaborate his being on the Avenger in the intro though.
Regarding the Avenger's pursuit of the Millennium Falcon: yes, it does seem like it's getting excessively play-by-play. Here's what I recommend: instead of mentioning the fact that Vandolay ducked (that's the part that sticks out as an unnecessary detail), maybe simply state that the Millennium Falcon maneuvered around the Avenger and landed on its blind spot, disappearing from the sensors—instead of detailing it as you do now. The level of detail should be capped off somewhere—we don't need to detail every action, thought, and movement that we see.- Got rid of that detail, is it good now?
In regards to the last sentence of the bio: firstly, it's a run-on, but I'm also unsure of the situation regarding the script and the communications officer. Are you trying to imply that the communications officer is Vandolay, and that he just wasn't specifically identified as such? If you are, please note that it's rather unclear; I would suggest rewording it somehow to make the connection clearer. Also, can we assume that he was the officer? I'm not entirely familiar with the film, so I can't judge if it's plausible.CC7567 (talk) 10:19, March 24, 2011 (UTC)- No, it is a completely separate character. In fact, you know what, maybe it's just better without that part even being mentioned, as it's unnecessary detail not related to Vandolay. Hanzo Hasashi 15:37, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
Are there any quotes that you can add? They don't have to be of Vandolay or of anyone speaking directly to Vandolay, but perhaps one of Needa's lines will work—i.e. "Needa said this" to Vandolay and the rest of the Avenger's bridge crew.CC7567 (talk) 19:02, March 24, 2011 (UTC)- Done that, what do you think? Hanzo Hasashi 19:55, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
Moffship
If Vandolay is the ISB attaché aboard the Executor, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that the "Executor Vandolay" is the "real" Vandolay, and the "Avenger Vandolay" is a different person?Grand Moff Tranner (Comlink) 21:08, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
- You mean the character from the reused footage shown on the Executor at the end of Empire? The CCG card is a manipulated image of "Avenger Vandolay" and not of "Executor Vandolay." Hanzo Hasashi 03:40, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
- Are you positive of that? For all we know, it could be a manipulated image of Vandolay from the Executor scene. Regardless, if the card establishes that Vandolay is assigned to the Executor, we should assume that the "Avenger Vandolay" is a separate character and not the other way around. Grand Moff Tranner (Comlink) 15:23, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
- If you watch the Avenger's pursuit of the Falcon in ESB, and watch the ending Executor scene, you will see that the photo on the card is of the character on the Avenger, a still which was not also reused in the Executor scene. Also worth noting that Corporal Derdram could also be seen on the Avenger alongside Vandolay, both of them are on the Executor, yet seen on the Avenger during its pursuit of the Falcon. Although this is not a source, on Yodapedia, Sompeetalay chose to treat "Avenger Vandolay" as the "real" Vandolay, and said it was probably a temporary assignment he had on the Avenger. If you still believe I should change it, then I will. Hanzo Hasashi 15:38, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
- Unless an actual source backs up such a claim, it is speculation to say he was "temporarily reassigned" to the Avenger when we know for a fact that he served aboard the Executor. If this article is ever to become a GA, it needs to be rid of any and all speculation and adhere to just the facts as presented by the sources. Therefore, you need to rewrite the article to talk about the Executor Vandolay and move all information about the second Vandolay to the BTS. Grand Moff Tranner (Comlink) 18:46, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
- Extensively rewritten. Hanzo Hasashi 20:26, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
- Unless an actual source backs up such a claim, it is speculation to say he was "temporarily reassigned" to the Avenger when we know for a fact that he served aboard the Executor. If this article is ever to become a GA, it needs to be rid of any and all speculation and adhere to just the facts as presented by the sources. Therefore, you need to rewrite the article to talk about the Executor Vandolay and move all information about the second Vandolay to the BTS. Grand Moff Tranner
- If you watch the Avenger's pursuit of the Falcon in ESB, and watch the ending Executor scene, you will see that the photo on the card is of the character on the Avenger, a still which was not also reused in the Executor scene. Also worth noting that Corporal Derdram could also be seen on the Avenger alongside Vandolay, both of them are on the Executor, yet seen on the Avenger during its pursuit of the Falcon. Although this is not a source, on Yodapedia, Sompeetalay chose to treat "Avenger Vandolay" as the "real" Vandolay, and said it was probably a temporary assignment he had on the Avenger. If you still believe I should change it, then I will. Hanzo Hasashi 15:38, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
- Are you positive of that? For all we know, it could be a manipulated image of Vandolay from the Executor scene. Regardless, if the card establishes that Vandolay is assigned to the Executor, we should assume that the "Avenger Vandolay" is a separate character and not the other way around. Grand Moff Tranner
- You mean the character from the reused footage shown on the Executor at the end of Empire? The CCG card is a manipulated image of "Avenger Vandolay" and not of "Executor Vandolay." Hanzo Hasashi 03:40, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
Toprawa
I don't exactly agree with the way some of the character's info is presented in the Biography. I interpret everything noted on the character's CCG card as pertaining to his specific duties and roles aboard the Executor circa 3 ABY. But the article is noting some of this stuff as though they are his general career duties, specifically the following: "serving as a member of the Imperial Security Bureau and a political liaison for the Commission for the Preservation of the New Order, an organization supporting Emperor Palpatine's New Order." I would like to see the previously referenced article information presented explicitly as his Executor responsibilities.Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:23, April 8, 2011 (UTC)- Fixed. Hanzo Hasashi 18:00, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the BTS is written very effectively in an effort to properly explain the character's appearances in the film and the evolution of the character's actual canonical role. For example, writing in the first sentence that the character "first appeared" in the Bespin chase scene is technically accurate from a purely canonical standpoint, but it's rather misleading considering that the actor/character first appears during the Avenger scene. I would like to see this rewritten to first explain that the character "first appeared" in the film, but don't immediately specify the Bespin scene until after explaining that the actor who portrayed the character first appears in the Avenger scene. The BTS should also explain that the character's face is actually only visible on screen during the Avenger scene, which is not canonically established to necessarily be this character (even though the CCG card uses this shot as his canonical image). While his true canonical appearance takes place on the Executor, only the back of his head is actually visible in that scene, making his true appearance somewhat unclear. If this is too complicated for you, I could take a stab at writing this myself, because I feel this is going to be the type of objection that goes on for a while until I'm truly satisfied with what the article is presenting.Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:32, April 9, 2011 (UTC)- I have done what I can, however I would agree that as a whole this is a bit too complicated for me to write perfectly. Hanzo Hasashi 18:41, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
- That's fine, and don't feel bad about it. This whole complication about the character's scenes is exactly the reason I never wrote this character in the first place. I'll see what I can do to spruce up the BTS soon when I have some time. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:49, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Do you feel like the BTS is ideal now? Oh btw with his visibility in the reused footage, I think his face is visible. I think he's the one in front of the Nemet-lookalike. Hanzo Hasashi 18:01, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Hey Toprawa, only if you have the time, do you think you can respond to the objections as it has been almost a month? Thanks. Hanzo Hasashi 02:48, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm ok with the BTS changes up to the point that this section still needs to detail the fact I've raised about the character's face not being visible in the reused Executor footage, and that his canonical image is taken from the Avenger scene. I'm looking at and comparing both scenes right now as I type this, and Vandolay's face is most definitely not visible in the reused shot. The character you're referring to is a different actor. Aside from basic facial recognition, the Vandolay character is facing with his back toward the bridge's viewports, which is clearly visible in the Avenger scene. So it's impossible for him to be this character, who is facing the viewports. I can upload comparison film stills illustrating this if need be. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:29, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I've made an attempt at this. Hope it is ideal. Hanzo Hasashi 23:07, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Is there any way I should change the wording of his BTS, or is it now ideal? Hanzo Hasashi 23:14, May 6, 2011 (UTC)
- No, this is far from satisfactory. The most recent changes actually replaced the exact thing this objection intended to revise/remove in the first place. This still needs to be somewhat substantially rewritten. To reiterate what I said before, I can make an attempt to rewrite this to my satisfaction when I have an opportunity. Otherwise, I think exactly what I'm looking for here is pretty well explained. You're welcome to keep making attempts in the meantime. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:54, May 7, 2011 (UTC)
- I have made another attempt. Hanzo Hasashi 22:15, May 7, 2011 (UTC)
- I've gone through and reworded your last version to reflect more closely what I'm looking for, and I would be satisfied with this version to support the article at this point. I thought it was appropriate to add a paragraph break in there too. Take a look at it, and if you're happy with it, let me know, and I'll support. If you have any issues, let me know too. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:19, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. Better than what I had, particularly separating paragraphs. Hanzo Hasashi 18:41, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Ok, works for me. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:48, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. Better than what I had, particularly separating paragraphs. Hanzo Hasashi 18:41, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
- I've gone through and reworded your last version to reflect more closely what I'm looking for, and I would be satisfied with this version to support the article at this point. I thought it was appropriate to add a paragraph break in there too. Take a look at it, and if you're happy with it, let me know, and I'll support. If you have any issues, let me know too. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:19, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
- I have made another attempt. Hanzo Hasashi 22:15, May 7, 2011 (UTC)
- No, this is far from satisfactory. The most recent changes actually replaced the exact thing this objection intended to revise/remove in the first place. This still needs to be somewhat substantially rewritten. To reiterate what I said before, I can make an attempt to rewrite this to my satisfaction when I have an opportunity. Otherwise, I think exactly what I'm looking for here is pretty well explained. You're welcome to keep making attempts in the meantime. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:54, May 7, 2011 (UTC)
- Is there any way I should change the wording of his BTS, or is it now ideal? Hanzo Hasashi 23:14, May 6, 2011 (UTC)
- I've made an attempt at this. Hope it is ideal. Hanzo Hasashi 23:07, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm ok with the BTS changes up to the point that this section still needs to detail the fact I've raised about the character's face not being visible in the reused Executor footage, and that his canonical image is taken from the Avenger scene. I'm looking at and comparing both scenes right now as I type this, and Vandolay's face is most definitely not visible in the reused shot. The character you're referring to is a different actor. Aside from basic facial recognition, the Vandolay character is facing with his back toward the bridge's viewports, which is clearly visible in the Avenger scene. So it's impossible for him to be this character, who is facing the viewports. I can upload comparison film stills illustrating this if need be. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:29, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Hey Toprawa, only if you have the time, do you think you can respond to the objections as it has been almost a month? Thanks. Hanzo Hasashi 02:48, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Do you feel like the BTS is ideal now? Oh btw with his visibility in the reused footage, I think his face is visible. I think he's the one in front of the Nemet-lookalike. Hanzo Hasashi 18:01, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
- That's fine, and don't feel bad about it. This whole complication about the character's scenes is exactly the reason I never wrote this character in the first place. I'll see what I can do to spruce up the BTS soon when I have some time. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:49, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
- I have done what I can, however I would agree that as a whole this is a bit too complicated for me to write perfectly. Hanzo Hasashi 18:41, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
Cav deploys tractor beams
an organization supporting Emperor Palpatine's New Order. Details, please. How did COMPNOR specifically support the New Order?- Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 08:43, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
- Written. Hanzo Hasashi 14:52, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
Kilson
One thing, you should clarify in the Bts that the "Corporal Vandolay" card instead claimed that Vandolay served aboard the Executor, or something along those lines. Other than that, looks fine.Kilson(Let's have a chat) 19:52, April 27, 2011 (UTC)- Written. Hanzo Hasashi 00:32, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Comments
Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 18:48, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
Did I go into excessive play-by-play detail not relevant to Vandolay during the Avenger's pursuit of the Millennium Falcon scene? It was the only way I could think of writing it. Please comment if you believe it should be changed. Also in the line "as he (Needa) requested a communications officer to prepare his TIE/sh shuttle to take him to the Super Star Destroyer so he would personally apologize to Lord Vader" the character who is highlighted is called a communications officer in the script. Is that script alone proof he was one? If not, I will change it.Hanzo Hasashi 23:36, March 21, 2011 (UTC)- Also this is a guest nom for WookieeProject Ambition. Hanzo Hasashi 23:47, March 21, 2011 (UTC)
- I have changed his entire bio to identify him as the character on the Executor from reused footage of the Avenger's command crew based on Grand Moff Tranner's objection. What does everyone else think in terms of which one's really him? Hanzo Hasashi 23:33, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
- The CCG image link is a dead link for me. Anyone else have this problem? Karohalva 21:35, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
- Yet another case of outdated links?! I've fixed it though. Hanzo Hasashi 03:28, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Nope. Still won't work for me. Karohalva 14:26, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I've tried fixing this twice as of now. My edit doesn't seem to display though. As is, it seems to be working for me at least. If not for you, I don't know what to say. I wish the CCG links would not always need to be updated though!! Hanzo Hasashi 15:59, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Doesn't work for me either. 1358 (Talk) 16:09, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Then I don't know what's going on, but it looks like once again a case of Decipher outdated links. :/ Hanzo Hasashi 16:15, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- So you're positive this link doesn't work, That's really weird, as in an attempt to fix the issue, I went on starwarsccg.org, clicked the cardlist, viewed the list, and opened the given link in a new tab. Hanzo Hasashi 16:17, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- It just says…
- So you're positive this link doesn't work, That's really weird, as in an attempt to fix the issue, I went on starwarsccg.org, clicked the cardlist, viewed the list, and opened the given link in a new tab. Hanzo Hasashi 16:17, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Then I don't know what's going on, but it looks like once again a case of Decipher outdated links. :/ Hanzo Hasashi 16:15, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Doesn't work for me either. 1358 (Talk) 16:09, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- I've tried fixing this twice as of now. My edit doesn't seem to display though. As is, it seems to be working for me at least. If not for you, I don't know what to say. I wish the CCG links would not always need to be updated though!! Hanzo Hasashi 15:59, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Nope. Still won't work for me. Karohalva 14:26, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
| You don't have permission to access /cards/dagobah/ds/corporalvandolay.gif on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. |
1358 (Talk) 16:29, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Same problem here. Karohalva 17:24, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- To be honest, I have no idea what the hell keeps happening with CCG links. I've started an SH forum about this. Why can't one website just stay functional, at least through Archive.org??!! Hanzo Hasashi 20:10, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Don't worry too much about it. I own the card so I know what it looks like. Karohalva 20:19, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- That's good. It's also good that this is only in the comments section, and not an objection that I cannot satisfy courtesy of outdated links. Hanzo Hasashi 20:23, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Green Tentacle has solved the problem, at least temporarily. Hanzo Hasashi 18:47, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
- That's good. It's also good that this is only in the comments section, and not an objection that I cannot satisfy courtesy of outdated links. Hanzo Hasashi 20:23, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
- Same problem here. Karohalva 17:24, May 1, 2011 (UTC)