- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.
Unidentified Endor arachnid
- Nominated by: GenralHux (talk) 04:06, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: "I will hunt down the alleged arachnid and spritz him to kingdom come." -- Delbert McClintock. Thank you for considering this nomination. Please let me know what improvements are needed and I will update the article accordingly.
- Date Archived: 05:02, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- Final word count: 718 words (159 introduction, 532 body, 27 behind the scenes)
- WookieeProject (optional): Wookieepedia:WookieeProject Ewoks
(5 ACs/1 Users/6 Total)
(Votes required: No additional votes required to pass, please consider reviewing another article.)
Support
—spookywillowwtalk 03:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)- Nice job, sorry for the bit of waiting with nothing Lewisr (talk) 04:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
- Nice work!
Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 21:49, 9 December 2023 (UTC) - D MCCG (chat) 19:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- Very well written, hope to see more from you. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 04:45, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- OOM 224 (he/him) 09:40, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Object
Lew
Welcome to the GAN! You should remove the links from the quote captions since they are linked elsewhere in the pageI think you should cut the image in behaviorContext for Endor at the first mention in the body is needed'This unnamed species' is it actually referred to as a species? And I would recommend not using words like unnamedThere's a bit of underlinking, such as color, princess, limb for example. And the links should be at the first mention, such as with eye for exampleBe careful with referencing, for instance you're citing a large chunk of the first paragraph of history to the databank, when I assume you're only citing the pronouns? The same is also the case in the 3rd paragraph just with The Essential Guide to Characters insteadThe BTS can be rewrote to just mention that the arachnid appeared in the [Ewoks episode and second] which aired on [date], and should also note it was via flashbacksLewisr (talk) 22:06, 20 September 2023 (UTC)- I believe I addressed your concerns. I will remove the image from the Behavior section if others agree. Personally, I thought it was a good inclusion, but I understand. GenralHux (talk) 01:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- I meant to include the reasoning but forgot to go back and add it, it's mostly because the section is a bit small, and moving it to the left would just interfere with headings below. If you increased the size of the one in history you could have 2 decent sized images on the page Lewisr (talk) 05:46, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- I believe I addressed your concerns. I will remove the image from the Behavior section if others agree. Personally, I thought it was a good inclusion, but I understand. GenralHux (talk) 01:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
'The creature was apparently predatory in nature' Is this something you are saying yourself or does the episode actually say they were apparently predatory?Lewisr (talk) 05:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Is it referred to as a species in the episode? There are multiple uses of species on the page, so I just want to be certain it's specifically called oneDoes the episode call it non-sentient species?Lewisr (talk) 05:59, 21 September 2023 (UTC)- Maybe I don't understand. No, the episode doesn't say it's a member of a species, or predatory, or non-sentient, but it also doesn't say it's an "arachnid," or "spider-like," or even "alive," or a "creature"; it also doesn't say that it has four legs, or is purple, all of which are simply empirical observations. These are all things which are observed from the episode. However, I've removed these particular descriptors from the article. If I'm limited to what the characters explicitly say about it, well, in fact I'd have to delete most of the article, because there is zero dialogue about it. In fact, the quotes are a little non-centric for a reason. GenralHux (talk) 13:43, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- It's just saying it is non-sentient or sentient would be a specific thing, so if it wasn't confirmed to be non-sentient then it's best to not make such assumptions, same with it being a species. The thing about it being spider-like or arachnid, or the colour etc are things that can be actually taken from the episode itself. And when you say 'apparently' it comes across as a bit speculative or non-committal. If they are predatory creatures you should just state as much. Hopefully this makes sense Lewisr (talk) 15:35, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sure. Thank you for the clarification. We may just have a difference of opinion on what can be inferred from observation (for instance, that it's an "arachnid" is more speculative to me than that it's a member of a species). Still, I modified the image caption and included the predatory bit, which I think is quite a safe statement to make from its behavior in the episode. GenralHux (talk) 16:03, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- You're welcome! Can you just further clarify which Ewoks are being fired at with the webbing? You'll also notice that there is still a bit of underlinking (such as species, pipelinking Homeworld to native, lucksprite), and ones in need of moving to their first mention (such as color) Lewisr (talk) 18:43, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sure. Thank you for the clarification. We may just have a difference of opinion on what can be inferred from observation (for instance, that it's an "arachnid" is more speculative to me than that it's a member of a species). Still, I modified the image caption and included the predatory bit, which I think is quite a safe statement to make from its behavior in the episode. GenralHux (talk) 16:03, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- It's just saying it is non-sentient or sentient would be a specific thing, so if it wasn't confirmed to be non-sentient then it's best to not make such assumptions, same with it being a species. The thing about it being spider-like or arachnid, or the colour etc are things that can be actually taken from the episode itself. And when you say 'apparently' it comes across as a bit speculative or non-committal. If they are predatory creatures you should just state as much. Hopefully this makes sense Lewisr (talk) 15:35, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe I don't understand. No, the episode doesn't say it's a member of a species, or predatory, or non-sentient, but it also doesn't say it's an "arachnid," or "spider-like," or even "alive," or a "creature"; it also doesn't say that it has four legs, or is purple, all of which are simply empirical observations. These are all things which are observed from the episode. However, I've removed these particular descriptors from the article. If I'm limited to what the characters explicitly say about it, well, in fact I'd have to delete most of the article, because there is zero dialogue about it. In fact, the quotes are a little non-centric for a reason. GenralHux (talk) 13:43, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
In the interests of minimalising seperate references, is it possible to cite Wicket's pronouns to The Essential Guide to Characters?Lewisr (talk) 05:05, 25 September 2023 (UTC)- On second thought, after rewatching the episode, I was able to remove the reference for Wicket's pronouns entirely, because they're mentioned many times over the episode, including from the mouth of Wicket himself. Sadly, the episode can't serve as a reference for Kneesa's, so I'll have to retain her pronoun citation. GenralHux (talk) 16:50, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Anil
Congrats on your first GAN! And good work with this so far! Besides the objections, I'll also leave a few "reviewing notes" about things I've fixed in my copy-edit but might be useful for your future nominations (which I'm looking forward to)!- (Reviewing note) As a general practice, file names in pages are formatted with underscores instead of spaces. e.g. Endor_arachnid_rear.png instead of Endor arachnid rear.png
- (Reviewing note) Per Wookieepedia's Manual of Style, image captions and reference notes should receive a period (full stop) only if they constitute full sentences. So the image caption in History does receive a period, but the one in Biology and appearance does not.
Also from the Manual, when pipelinking, all characters should be placed inside the link brackets. For example, [[Desert/Legends|Deserts]] rather then [[Desert/Legends|Desert]]s, but [[Kneesaa a Jari Kintaka]]'s stays as it is since it's not a pipelink. You can see more examples about those here. Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:10, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for all your help with these issues. I'm ready for the objections as well. GenralHux (talk) 01:14, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sure! The last one (about the pipelinks) is an objection though :) Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:17, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry, I thought you had addressed that in your copy-edit, which I appreciate. I went through and changed the ones I found. I believe I caught them all. GenralHux (talk) 01:22, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry about the confusion, I've only found one last pipelink to fix but got that one myself. Nice work! Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry about the confusion, I've only found one last pipelink to fix but got that one myself. Nice work!
- Sorry, I thought you had addressed that in your copy-edit, which I appreciate. I went through and changed the ones I found. I believe I caught them all. GenralHux (talk) 01:22, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sure! The last one (about the pipelinks) is an objection though :)
- Thank you for all your help with these issues. I'm ready for the objections as well. GenralHux (talk) 01:14, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
spookly
Currently, the infobox says arachnid or insectoid. If we don't know which for certain, we ultimately shouldn't assume—so, the Category:Arachnids category should be removed, and the page itself (and related mentions throughout) should be changed to 'creature.' That, or one or the other should be picked off visual appearance, off which that'd probably just be arachnid.—spookywillowwtalk 15:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)- Addressed. I wrote "or insect" due to its three body segments. Considering that Wookieepedia's descriptions are based on appearance and behavior (and rightfully so, given that we don't exactly have phylogeny or anything else to go by ), this thing's supposed to be a spider. I had a discussion with Mr. Lewisr about this; he seemed fairly confident that arachnid is an appropriate description from its appearance and behavior alone. ThanksGenralHux (talk) 02:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
- Makes sense.—spookywillowwtalk 03:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
- Addressed. I wrote "or insect" due to its three body segments. Considering that Wookieepedia's descriptions are based on appearance and behavior (and rightfully so, given that we don't exactly have phylogeny or anything else to go by ), this thing's supposed to be a spider. I had a discussion with Mr. Lewisr about this; he seemed fairly confident that arachnid is an appropriate description from its appearance and behavior alone. ThanksGenralHux (talk) 02:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Uber
- Since this article is about a type of creature, can we get an article about the specific arachnid in the episode? UberSoldat93 (talk) 07:03, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- Would this meet Wookieepedia's notability guidelines? This is an unnamed species with a single individual. I'm not sure. Nevertheless, do you have any objections to this page? GenralHux (talk) 18:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- If it has plot relevance, that's more than enough to get a page. UberSoldat93 (talk) 19:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- If it has plot relevance, that's more than enough to get a page. UberSoldat93
- Would this meet Wookieepedia's notability guidelines? This is an unnamed species with a single individual. I'm not sure. Nevertheless, do you have any objections to this page? GenralHux (talk) 18:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
OOM
Welcome to the GAN! Just a few small things:- The purple color is exclusive to the infobox and the intro; it should either be removed from the article or be added to the article body.
- "The creature was broadly arachnoid in appearance and nature" — it either is an arachnid or it isn't, so I don't think this part is needed.
- Since the article mentions that Kneesaa was a princess in two other instances, the fact that she was a princess should be established upon the first mention of her in the prose.
- "Great" seems to be subjective, unless it's referring to the relative size of the creature compared to the Ewoks? The article should make this clear, and probably mention the arachnid's size in the Description section instead. OOM 224 (he/him) 19:58, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- Addressed. ThanksGenralHux (talk) 19:08, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- Fab, no worries. Quote attributions don't count as part of the prose though, so Kneesaa needs to be established as a princess in the paragraph itself (just as how we link the first instance of her mention in the prose, rather than in the quote template). Also, if the fact that she's a princess can't be sourced to the episode itself, then you can reuse the existing The Essential Guide to Characters reference instead of introducing another citation. OOM 224 (he/him) 19:21, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- Addressed. ThanksGenralHux (talk) 19:08, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Macaroni
Love the Ewoks nom! Let's see...The intro is separate from the body, so you need to reintroduce the subject in the first body section.- Any more relevant quotes to use?
- You should implement {{EwoksDate}}.
Do the episode's subtitles capitalize "Cavern" on its own?JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 23:09, 18 December 2023 (UTC)- I'm not sure how you'd like me to reintroduce the subject, since it doesn't have a name, and I use the first sentence to describe its arachnid-ism. Nevertheless, I added "unidentified" as a descriptor and changed "the" to "an" to de-reference the intro. Could you clarify?
- No more relevant quotes to use, unfortunately, at least not from the episode in which this guy appears.
- Yes, I placed the template's text directly into the article so that I could reword it slightly to account for the fact that the arachnid appears in a flashback. However, my flashback notation was removed in this edit by a more senior editor than myself, and I assumed this was done for rule compliance purposes. Anyway, given that my notation was deleted, there's no reason to omit the template, so I added it back in.
- Yes, they do.GenralHux (talk) 02:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)