Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Shadow trooper

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Shadow trooper

  • Nominated by: TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders AnilSerifoglu (talk) 20:36, February 26, 2018 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: These stormtroopers can actually shoot things.

(4 ACs/3 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Yo.-User:Fan26 (Talk) 18:06, March 9, 2018 (UTC)
  2. --Lewisr (talk) 21:24, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
  3. --Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:44, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Ayrehead02 (talk) 10:24, April 21, 2018 (UTC)
  5. ACvote 1358 (Talk) 20:01, April 23, 2018 (UTC)
  6. ACvote Imperators II(Talk) 05:55, May 3, 2018 (UTC)
  7. ACvote Shadow trooper. The nomination that crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side. :P Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 09:31, May 19, 2018 (UTC)

Object

Tommy
  • Could you please remove the shadow on the left side of the BTS image.—Tommy-Macaroni Imperial Emblem (TAKE A SEAT) 18:36, February 27, 2018 (UTC)
    • Unfortunately, I wasn't able to take a screenshot of the image without that text box shadow, or extract the image directly from the game files. So I have cropped that part entirely to satisfy your objection. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders AnilSerifoglu (talk) 18:49, February 27, 2018 (UTC)
  • I recommend sub-sectioning the BTS.
  • Could you say they "first appeared in Star Wars canon in Star Wars Battlefront"?
  • You should remove the full date for Battlefront, and just have the year, which can be sourced to the product itself.—Tommy-Macaroni Imperial Emblem (TAKE A SEAT) 19:04, March 12, 2018 (UTC)
    • Done, also removed the one for The Force Unleashed. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders AnilSerifoglu (talk) 22:10, March 12, 2018 (UTC)
  • I'd like to see a bit of an expansion on the intro.—Tommy-Macaroni Imperial Emblem (TAKE A SEAT) 20:10, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
Lewisr
  • Stormtrooper Corps is infobox exclusive --Lewisr (talk) 21:07, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
    • I thought being a stormtrooper variant automatically makes them members of the Stormtrooper Corps, but now I see that is probably my speculation. Removed that from the infobox. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders AnilSerifoglu (talk) 21:22, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
      • Hmm, I'd argue that its fair enough to say they're in that corps.—Tommy-Macaroni Imperial Emblem (TAKE A SEAT) 21:27, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
        • Maybe could add Imperial Army or Military at the very least but I'm not overly fussed if Anil feels otherwise --Lewisr (talk) 21:30, March 13, 2018 (UTC)
Ecks Dee
  • You have two consecutive [1] references in the Equipment section. Either one of them is redundant or you're using the wrong reference. 1358 (Talk) 21:33, April 2, 2018 (UTC)
  • I tried to search for similar status articles but I can't really find anything that could be used as precedent for the layout. The closest we can come is probably the Weapons, armor, technology, and equipment articles section of the LG, and I actually think you should rename Equipment to Description; and move History below Description and Application. Thoughts? 1358 (Talk) 11:41, April 4, 2018 (UTC)
    • Since there is no section specifically for military organizations/units in the layout guide, I too searched for some similar status articles and found some kinda similar good articles (such as Twisted Star Squadron, Eighty-sixth Infantry, Special Forces black ops program and Imperial Medical Corps). But my main precedent for the layout was the featured article of clone shadow trooper. I will change the sections, if you still think that is necessary. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 13:32, April 4, 2018 (UTC)
      • I think it makes sense in this case to first explain what they are and what's so special about them (like we do for starships for example), but considering there's nothing in the LG and precedent for the current layout, it's really up to you if you want to implement it or not. 1358 (Talk) 21:22, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
        • I see your point. I have changed the sections as you suggested, and renamed "Equipment" as "Description and equipment" since almost the entire paragraph is about their equipment. Please feel free to change the name if you disagree. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 23:58, April 8, 2018 (UTC)
          • Very good. Would you be ok with dropping the "equipment" part altogether? I think Description on its own would suffice.
  • No other applicable quotes?
    • There are 10 different applicable quotes in total, all spoken by Admiral Ackbar to warn rebel troopers about incoming shadow troopers (you can listen them all here). In my opinion, the current one is the best by far. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:43, April 14, 2018 (UTC)
      • You could probably put one of them in the History section, at least, if not also in the other sections. 1358 (Talk) 21:32, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
        • Added two additional quotes. I personally feel the one in the History section would work better in Description, but I am also OK with the current placement. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 05:31, April 21, 2018 (UTC)
          • Current setup is okay with me. 1358 (Talk) 00:48, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • Is the Ackbar quote some sort of a gameplay mechanic? If not, it should be mentioned in the body.
    • Shadow troopers only appear in the survival mode, in which you play as a rebel trooper who is stranded in an Imperial-occupied territory (a planet of your choice). Before the first wave of shadow troopers arrive into battle, a hologram of Ackbar warns you about them. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:43, April 14, 2018 (UTC)
  • "Wearing an armor similar in design to the traditional stormtrooper armor," This feels a bit misplaced. You spend the earlier sentences discussing differences in the armor, but suddenly you say they wear similar armor. This could work better if you moved the "similar" part to before you describe the differences.
  • I haven't played Battlefront, so I'm not familiar with the storyline. Do these shadow troopers appear in any missions or similar that could be noted in the History, or are they solely a multiplayer feature (or similar)?
    • Actually there isn't any actual storyline in Battlefront except for some tiny training missions. In singleplayer, they only appear in the survival mode as I've explained above. As far as the multiplayer goes, you can only wear their black armor as a cosmetics option. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:43, April 14, 2018 (UTC)
  • I added a {{fact}} tag in the Bts for something that will require a separate reference; please have a look.
  • " it is unlikely that the shadow troopers will be included to the sequel game due to the addition of another black-colored stormtrooper[14]—the death troopers.[13]" Seeing as BF II has been released already, is this sentence still accurate? 1358 (Talk) 20:19, April 13, 2018 (UTC)
    • I would say so. The tweet was actually sent months after Battlefront II's release and the game is still expanding. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:18, April 14, 2018 (UTC)
      • Fair enough. Make sure to update it when they stop releasing new content. :P 1358 (Talk) 21:32, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
  • In the intro, you say that the cloaking device was part of their armor, but this isn't really obvious in the body. Please clarify.
    • I have just rechecked all the sources and they don't explicitly state that the devices were part of their armor. Made some tweaking in the intro. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:55, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • "Shadow troopers' stealth equipment made them highly suited for missions where cunning rather than brute force was required." The implication here is that stealth equipment = cunning. Does the source use that word? If not, it seems you should pick another word, maybe "discretion"?
    • "This armor, coupled with portable cloaking tech makes them highly suited for missions where cunning, rather than brute force is required." This is the sentence written in the source. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 06:10, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
      • Ok, "cunning" is fine but you should definitely reword that sentence as it's basically copied word-for-word from the source. 1358 (Talk) 19:22, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • "They were based off of their clone shadow trooper predecessors.[2]" I feel like some elaboration could be made here. What do we know about the clone shadow troopers? If nothing else, we know they were used by the Republic, which would be worth mentioning here.
    • Actually we don't know anything about them except that they were Imperial shadow troopers' predecessors. And about that Republic mention, I thought that maybe they were clones who were first deployed during the early years of the Empire, but I now realize that doesn't make any sense. Added now. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:55, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
      • Be careful when you source things. Your version essentially used AOTC as a source for the clone shadow troopers being a variant of the standard clone troopers. I've fixed it for you, but keep this in mind. 1358 (Talk) 19:22, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
  • "who possessed the same ability, identified as "Shadow Troopers."[10]" What ability are we talking about here? "Equipped with a cloaking device" isn't really an ability. Please reword. 1358 (Talk) 01:05, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
Ayrehead
  • Why do you reference the description of the Galactic Civil War to A New Hope? Can't it just be included in the Battlefront reference? Ayrehead02 (talk) 18:30, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
    • Yeah it actually can, removed the redundant reference. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 03:07, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Would strongly recommend removing the Funko news article from the Sources list. Its contents are purely merchandise in nature and have no significant relevance to our purposes. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:34, April 21, 2018 (UTC)
    • Shifted it to the External links section. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:23, April 21, 2018 (UTC)
      • That still doesn't really get to the crux of the issue, which, to put it bluntly, is that this merchandise news article is irrelevant to Wookieepedia (that's why the Merchandise Wiki exists). By putting it in the External links, you now actually run into a policy clause that calls for its removal (see the third bullet point). Just kill it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:48, April 23, 2018 (UTC)
  • I see that apparently the back packaging of the Black Series voice-changer helmet has little call-outs in Aurebesh that describe technical aspects of the shadow trooper's helmet. Have you checked/translated all of these to make sure there's nothing that needs to be added to the article? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:06, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • I have translated them all actually, but they are exactly the same with the aspects featured on the packaging of the standard Black Series stormtrooper voice changer helmet, nothing specific about shadow troopers. These are the translations from the left to the right: exhaust filters, armored helmet, induction filters, heat dispersion vents, direct speaker. I thought adding similar in design to the traditional stormtrooper armor would be enough, but I'll surely add them if you think otherwise. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 05:27, April 26, 2018 (UTC)
      • Yes, I would recommend detailing all of these items by name. Just saying their armor is "similar" to stormtrooper armor really isn't specific enough. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 05:38, April 26, 2018 (UTC)
  • Couple things I notice immediately. The BTS image can be re-uploaded to a much higher quality from a digital source. I'm guessing the original uploader took that version from the old Databank page.
  • As I attempted to outline here, it's impractical and unnecessary for our Canon-article Sources lists to list every mundane artwork card from Card Trader. The only times we need to list Card Trader cards are when they have textual data on the back or unique film promo images, neither of which seems to be the case with these 8-bit shadow trooper cards.
  • Can you explain for me how ref 5 is being used to source this statement: "Like the standard stormtrooper helmets..."? Because the Hasbro.com link doesn't show any connection to the shadow trooper. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:56, May 4, 2018 (UTC)
    • The Aurebesh descriptions on both the stormtrooper and shadow trooper helmet packages are exactly the same, so I thought that the stormtrooper helmet ref can be used to source that statement right before mentioning those common technical aspects. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 22:56, May 6, 2018 (UTC)
      • Your use of the reference there is fine. My issue is more that the Hasbro link doesn't show the packaging, so what you're intending to reference isn't visible. Maybe use the Amazon product page link instead, if that shows the packaging? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:35, May 7, 2018 (UTC)
        • Unfortunately, that library the Amazon product page contains nothing that the girl Rey the Hasbro page does not already possess. The only web page that has the image of the necessary section of the package is on this website, which is now added to the article. By the way, the Amazon page for the shadow trooper helmet doesn't have the necessary info either, and I was unable to find another proper source to replace it. Only several unboxing videos on YouTube show that part of the package, which are probably inappropriate for our purpose. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:28, May 8, 2018 (UTC)
          • I also found this page that has the necessary image in an acceptable quality, but not from an official source. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:14, May 9, 2018 (UTC)
            • Well, what I'm asking for isn't strictly necessary, since it's technically covered under the specified source, though it would be nice to show a picture of the subject. But since there don't seem to be any good official pictures, just stick with either Amazon or the manufacturer's product page. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 05:59, May 11, 2018 (UTC)
              • OK then, reverted back to the manufacturer's product page. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 03:44, May 12, 2018 (UTC)
  • As I objected to on another of your noms recently, one-sentence paragraphs are not ideal. Please revise or add to the Description section's second "paragraph" to break it up into at least two sentences.
  • Reviewing note: I decided to just remove the second BTS image after aligning the other two images left-right. It just doesn't look so great down there in that little paragraph. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:22, May 17, 2018 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that is probably for the best. By the way, I can add another cool shadow trooper image from Battlefornt to either the Role or History section, and move the Behind the scenes image a little bit if you think there is enough room for that. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 10:24, May 17, 2018 (UTC)
      • Those sections are far too small to support an image. Believe me, I would have called for one otherwise. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:22, May 18, 2018 (UTC)
  • Ultimate Star Wars (used for reference 7) doesn't mention anything about shadow troopers or their armor, or you would have that book listed in the Sources. You're just extrapolating information from stormtrooper armor information. Rather than making the bald-faced assumption that everything is equal between stormtrooper and shadow trooper armor, it would be more appropriate for this article to list only the information we are given for shadow trooper armor, which is pretty much only what is listed on the Hasbro packaging. You should just remove this, in other words: "...along with audio pickups on the sides at ear level." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 02:22, May 18, 2018 (UTC)
    • I had added it because it was the only helmet component that was visible in that image and not mentioned in the article, but you are right about that, it is now removed from the article. By the way, a similar assumption is made about the N-20 Baradium-core thermal detonator since the cylindrical object on the shadow trooper's back had the exact same appearance except for its color in Battlefront. I should remove that too if you agree. Also, I have just noticed that you took the mention of "gray-colored visors" out, just asking to make sure that was intentional. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 23:21, May 18, 2018 (UTC)
      • I removed the gray-colored visor part for a few reasons. Firstly, aside from the white Imperial crest, the visors aren't the only part of the suit that's not black. There's also the gray-colored mouth part, which you omitted, and the blue-tinted exhaust filters, which were also omitted because they're mentioned later on. It becomes unwieldy to mention all of that, not to mention repetitive with regards to the mouth filter if that gets mentioned twice. Plus, I think we can technically disregard those things as not being truly "armor," if you take my meaning. They're more like components of the overall outfit, while the black portions are the actual armor plating. But regardless, I've made an effort to rework the gray eye and mouth part into the second paragraph, because I think it should be mentioned nonetheless. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:41, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
      • Question regarding the N-20 thermal detonators: Are the shadow troopers ever shown using them in Battlefront? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:41, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
        • No, not at all. The shadows troopers are only shown using T-21 heavy blasters and flash grenades. The N-20 thermal detonators only appear as part of the stormtrooper armor in the game. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 08:29, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
          • Then, yeah, to be consistent, I would say remove it until a time that we're given an explicit indication of what they are with relation to shadow troopers. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 09:12, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
  • Hopefully last question. The article says they "mainly" wielded T-21s and flash grenades. Are they ever shown using any other weaponry? If the answer is no, just remove the "mainly." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 09:22, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
Shadow Blackhole storm Imperators trooper
  • "Imperial crest adorning their outfit on the top left torso region" — could you change this to "chest section of their armor" or something to that effect instead? (I just think it'd be more natural to just say the crest was on their chest.) Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
  • "the gray-colored visors part of their helmets" — something wrong with grammar here. Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • Removed the "part of their helmets" part, I think just saying visors is self-explanatory. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:51, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
  • From the BTS I gather that the information sourced to the first instance of the ea.com ref could just be sourced to Battlefront instead. Can't the second instance of the ea.com ref also be switched to the Battlefront ref? Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • I am not sure why I did that, but you are right. Changed now. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:51, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
  • "They were based off of their clone shadow trooper predecessors, a variant of the clone troopers[2]" — Ref 2 can't be used to source the fact that Clone Shadow Troopers were a variant of clone troopers. Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • Never mind, it appears that canon lore is somewhat poor in this area and that this can also just use some applied logic. Imperators II(Talk) 19:22, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
  • Okay, the super-bare History section of these guys, combined with three quotes by Ackbar related to them makes me want to see in the BTS some mention of the capacity the troopers appeared in within Battlefront, i.e., why don't they have any IU history. Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • Added a paragraph about that in the Behind the scenes section. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:51, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
      • Is the survival mode not canonical? If only the story mode is canonical, maybe you could add that the troopers didn't appear in that. Imperators II(Talk) 14:56, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
        • Actually, the 2015 Battlefront doesn't have a story mode at all. And the survival mode is basically the same scenario repeated in different locations, even the quotes used by Ackbar are the same. In case you want more information about that, the creators of Battlefront discuss here the game's canonicity. The game simply allows players to play fantasy battles based on canon elements. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 22:50, May 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • In addition, I believe you should note that Ackbar mentioned the troopers, IU-wise. Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • I hadn't add any IU information about Ackbar, because I didn't think his appearance in Battlefront bears any kind of canonicity. But since you feel otherwise, I have just added a small sentence about that in the History section. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:51, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
  • "The all-black stormtroopers equipped with cloaking devices were originally introduced in the Star Wars Legends continuity,[7]" — why is this referenced to Imperial Handbook. The 2014 book was definitely not the earliest Legends source where shadow stormtroopers were introduced. Imperators II(Talk) 19:13, April 25, 2018 (UTC)
    • You are absolutely right, but Imperial Handbook is the earliest source that explicitly states that they were equipped with cloaking devices as far as I can find. I have searched in all the books in the Sources section of shadow stormtrooper. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 07:51, April 27, 2018 (UTC)
  • Okay, I'd like to see all the BTS canon info, especially the part where you talk about the trooper's actual role in Battlefront, moved upwards in the BTS, before any Legends information. Imperators II(Talk) 14:56, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
    • Changed it accordingly, also made minor changes to the images to make them work in the current positions. Also, I have one more high-quality shadow trooper image from Battlefront if you think it wouldn't be too much. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 22:50, May 1, 2018 (UTC)
      • Alas, there doesn't seem to be enough room in the article for any more images. Imperators II(Talk) 05:55, May 3, 2018 (UTC)
  • You should mention they have blue things on their helmets, visible on all three of the article's canon images. Imperators II(Talk) 15:01, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
    • Derp, never mind. Imperators II(Talk) 15:01, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
      • Oh, they are already mentioned in the article: "blue-colored exhaust filters placed near the rim." TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 22:50, May 1, 2018 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 09:32, May 19, 2018 (UTC)