Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Separatist Council

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Separatist Council

  • Nominated by:Lucius malfoy7 21:29, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:My first nomination, so wish me luck!

(0 ACs/1 Users/1 Total)

Support

  1. Your first vote! The article's come a long way; excellent work. CC7567 20px-Rex.png (talk) 02:12, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Object

  1. From the Moffship of Grand Moff Tranner:
    • Before I even read through it, you need references, and lots of them. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 21:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
      • Done —Unsigned comment by Lucius malfoy7 (talk • contribs)
        • This is quite insufficient. Everything needs to be sourced. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
          • Is this good? Or does more of the text need citing? Lucius malfoy7 21:21, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
            • Everything needs sourcing in an article, except the description. If all the information in a paragraph comes from once source, then cite it at the end of the paragraph. However, if information inside of the paragraph comes from different sources, state that as well. --CC7567 20px-Rex.png talk 23:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
              • I'm pretty sure these are the only citations that can be found for this article. Lucius malfoy7 17:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
                • Could you guys review these changes soon please? Lucius malfoy7 20:04, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  2. Glancing through (CC7567)
    • No citations should be in the description.
    • More citations are needed.
    • Citations should go after commas and periods, not before.
    • "Nute Gunray continued to attempt to assassinate Padmé Amidala, though unsuccessfully, and attempted to hold his citadel on Cato Neimoidia; Wat Tambor and Passel Argente spied on each other; San Hill and Shu Mai attempted to hold Muunilinst and Felucia respectively.": even with using semi-colons, it sounds like a run-on sentence. Splitting the sentence up would be preferable.
    • Should be "Jedi Knights," not "Jedi knights".
    • Composition: even though the article is about the Council, starting all the sentences out with "it" makes it sound undefined.
    • The "fall" of the Council vs. the "massacre" can be split up and expanded a bit more, since they occurred at different (although close) times towards the end of the Clone Wars. --CC7567 20px-Rex.png talk 02:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
    • One more thing: although I'm not very knowledgeable on the Council, as it was the governing body of the Separatists, there may be more that can be said. I would recommend doing a check on the places where the Council appears and try to be detailed as possible. (Although not to the point where portions of the article have to be split into separate articles.) --CC7567 20px-Rex.png talk 03:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
  3. Second look by the clone-designated guy (CC7567)
    • Source that leading quote! If you don't know where it's from, please either find out or change it to a different quote that can be sourced.
    • I think more can be said in the description, re: the history of the Council. What led to their fall? Why were they massacred?
    • I don't believe the quote descriptions need to be sentences. They only need to mention the speaker and the audience (if necessary), and also if necessary, the circumstances. If the quotes really do lead into the information in the following section, then the circumstances shouldn't really be necessary.
    • "What world will accept us now?. ": there's an extra period and a space; please correct.
    • From what it sounds like, under the section "The War, Belderone and Utapau", it jumps from "throughout the course of the war" to "in the final stages of the Clone Wars" in two paragraphs with not much in between. Can more be said?
    • The paragraph "In the final stages of the Clone Wars...": even though this article is about the council and not Gunray, it can still be expanded. What Republic victories at which Separatist strongholds in which major CIS systems forced the council to hide?
    • Yes, the plan was made for the relocation to Belderone before the interception of Gunray's mechno-chair, but this can be mentioned with the actual place that the council went to.
    • I recommend changing it to "change of plans", instead of "change of plan."
    • "Before Grievous's death, Darth Sidious ordered him to send the Council from Utapau to Mustafar, supposedly to keep them safe from the Republic.": why was it supposedly to keep the council safe? Did they in fact meet their end there? (I know you know the answer to the question, but if "supposedly" is used, then you can foreshadow what happens later as far as their actual deaths.)
    • "With the Separatist Council member's deaths...": should be reworded to flow better. At least move the apostrophe after the "s", because the members of the Separatist Council are plural, right?
    • The death of the council can still be expanded more. Also, the loss of Grievous can be expanded more as well and separated. Wasn't Grievous with the council shortly before the council left and Kenobi arrived? (If there's an error in that, sorry; I haven't watched Episode III for a while, but I know that more can be said.) It can be expanded on how the council was given control of the Confederacy vs. the council members' actual deaths.
    • I believe it should be mentioned that the Clone Wars were entirely manipulated by Sidious for his rise to power, and that the Separatists were just sockpuppets or something like that. (Maybe not "sockpuppets", but something along those lines.)
    • I can't remember whether the council was formed before or after this, but didn't the council take a vote (perhaps the only time they were in session, I think was mentioned somewhere) to execute Skywalker and Amidala in Episode II?
    • Sorry for the long text wall of criticism. After you review the article, I'll take another look if needed. --CC7567 20px-Rex.png talk 00:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
  4. Another look from the clone:
    • Please check the above objections; some still require further clarification. Also, others haven't been touched, and I'm not sure whether you accidentally missed them or planned to answer them later.
    • Please fix the link to Count Dooku in the description for the new leading quote.
    • Rather minor: you need a space after the seventh citation ("Muunilinst[6] and Felucia,[7]respectively.") needs a space after it, and the eighth citation ("none of which proved any fruit. [8]") has an extra space before it.
    • "In the final stages of the Clone Wars, the Council was to hide in the Outer Rim on General Grievous's orders, due to Republic victories at Separatist strongholds in major CIS systems, such as Felucia and Cato Neimoidia." Since you go on to mention Gunray's exploits at Cato Neimoidia, the last part of that sentence can be taken out. And instead of saying "such" as, can you expand upon the Republic victory at Felucia?
    • Please check the article's body for multiple links. (As I learned recently,) the sections of the article should all be treated as one part, and links therefore should only be linked once.
    • Please check citations. I see that the end of the last paragraph in "The War, Belderone and Utapau" is in need of a citation, as is the last paragraph of "Post-War". Also, under the "Senators of the Galaxy who joined the cause", the members from Passel Argente through Rogwa Wodrata need citations, as does Wat Tambor.
    • —CC7567 20px-Rex.png talk 03:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  5. Clone's last stand (hopefully)
  6. From Mauser:
  7. Attack of the Clone...V, I believe

Comments

  • With all that Nute Gunray's talkative ass had to say, I'm sure that at least one more quote can be found for this article.—Tommy Dark side Master SWGTCG (Nine two eight one) 22:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
    • I did you one up and added three quotes. Lucius malfoy7 18:48, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Please check that the article isn't opinionated, and just states facts. "Vader then trapped the cowardly Separatists": whether or not it's true, it's an opinion. Be sure to check the rest of the article and take out opinions, and also check grammar. --CC7567 20px-Rex.png talk 23:11, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
    • I took out the "cowardlies" in the article, and added/deleted things in a few other places to make it less opinionated. Lucius malfoy7 18:48, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, I cannot vote in the removal act below. However, he are some things I'd like to say to defend the article:
    • We don't put every appearance of every group member on an article. For instance, Luminara Unduli appears in The Clone Wars: Cloak of Darkness, but Cloak of Darkness isn't in the appearances section of Jedi High Council. Same goes for numerous articles, including Cad Bane's Posse, Loyalist Committee, GA Imperial Ruling Council, etc.
    • Articles are not created to give the history of every person that was a member of the group or had anything to do with the event. We have articles for them to do just that, which work fairly well. Separatist Council is about the Separatist Council, not Nute Gunray's entire life or a detailed account of Shu Mai's particapation in one battle. I do mention some battles and occurences during the war the Councilors partaked in/were involved with, but did not go into immense detail for the reasons above.
    • So what if the citations were recommended by reviewers? I've got the required now, and isn't that a reviewer's job?
    • Please consider, ACs. —Lucius malfoy7 Nute777 (Give it up for Lil' 'Soka Tano, ladies and gents!) 20:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
      • (conversation moved from User talk:Lucius malfoy7): Every single mention of the members of the Council. Every single mention of the Separatist leadership. No offense, but this article will not be accepted until and unless it is written from all the sources, with all pertinent information. That's pretty much everything from the prequel era. What I see now is an article which was written, and then had citations added haphazardly upon request. Furthermore, please read the notice at the top of my talk page. I hope you'll respect that in the future; the GAN page has comments sections for a reason and there's no reason you can't comment on my vote. Graestan(Talk) 20:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
        • Let me state up front that I'm not going to go around and around with you on this. Any mention of the members of the Council and every mention of the leadership of the CIS should at least be considered an indirect mention. The decisions the CIS leadership makes are commented on in nearly every source from The Approaching Storm beyond Revenge of the Sith. These are indirect mentions and mentions only. The citations were added after the fact; that's evidence enough in itself that the information does not necessarily reflect all of the information in all of the sources cited, to say the least. As far as other articles go, I don't really care. I made my decision based on my experience here, which precludes Imperial Ruling Council, which was voted a GA before the AgriCorps was formed, indeed, before I was even a member of the site. The removal vote is not coming down. If you want to GA this article, you should write it from the sources, all of them, as I suggested. Graestan(Talk) 20:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  • In response, unless the Council itself is mentioned or indirectly mentioned, it doesn't need to be listed as an eppearance. Unless the Council is seen/mentioned voting (which they don't vote often; I've never seen it), the events that they influence isn't an indirect appearance. That would mean that everything in the Clone Wars would be on every single person, ship, group, etc.'s page simply because they influenced the war in some way. —Lucius malfoy7 Nute777 (Give it up for Lil' 'Soka Tano, ladies and gents!) 20:46, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Remove nomination (AgriCorps vote only)

  1. ACvote Very incomplete, missing information from a plethora of sources, the sourcing that is there is hackneyed and not reliable whatsoever, all sorts of appearances missing. This is one of those "please try again" situations. Graestan(Talk) 18:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Per Graestan. Take your time and check every source you can for information, mentions or indirect mentions, then bring it back :-). Grunny (Talk) 22:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Per above. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 23:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)