- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.
Little Bivoli
- Nominated by: Nayayen
Talk 16:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC) - Nomination comments:The ship may be a mess but the article (hopefully) isn't.
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Support
Object
- Grunny's first look
It needs a "Description" section that includes its class and all the details of the design of the ship.Overlinking/Underlinking: Check you link everything once in the intro and once in the article body.Marn Heiroglyph needs some context in the intro.Zayne Carrick could also use some more context in the intro.The Mandalorian Wars needs some mention in the intro.The Mandalorian Wars also needs mention in the History, providing context for the Battle of Serroco.You also need to provide some context for the Courageous battle group in the intro, and how the Little Bivoli was forced to join.Padawan Massacre of Taris needs context in its first mention.- Done Nayayen
Talk 11:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
"On Ralltiir, the Snivvian black marketeer Marn Hierogryph and Jedi Padawan Zayne Carrick, the falsely accused perpetrator of the Padawan Massacre of Taris, an attempt by the Jedi Covenant to prevent the Rogue Moon Prophecy from coming to fruition, were forced to look for a new ship after their previous Arkanian offshoot companions, Jarael and Camper left on their ship, the Last Resort, to find a cure for Camper's illness on Arkania." This sentence has become unruly by trying to provide context, as now you would have to provide context for both the Jedi Covenant and the Rogue Moon Prophecy. It may be better to say something like: "the falsely accused perpetrator of the Padawan Massacre of Taris, where four Padawans were killed by their Masters..." since going into such detail is unnecessary as this article is about the Little Bivoli. Or perhaps something like: "Jedi Padawan Zayne Carrick, the falsely accused killer of four fellow Padawans at the Padawan Massacre of Taris..." Have a play with the sentence but try to simplify it :).
- Done Nayayen
"At one point Gryph went to see why the supply of clean plates for the buffet was low and found Zayne using the Force to keep him from loosing his mind until, for yet another time, Zayne was forced to abandon his meditation when one of the serving droids dropped a tray of food on a soldier's coat." Why was Zayne loosing his mind?The Battle of Serroco needs to mentioned explicitly in "History"."Upon arriving on Serroco with the Republic fleet, the Bivoli continued its role as a provisioning ship." You need to mention that it was a provisioning ship earlier than in the history. Possibly in explaining why the Courageous ordered them into formation.In the Bts, you may want to include who wrote the issue and who drew the ship.- I'll re-review after you address these. Grunny (Talk) 07:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
- Grunny's second look
You may also want to add a "Commanders and crew" section, using this current CT as a guide. Although it hasn't passed yet it is a good guide for the layout."They were ordered to merge into formation for a hyperspace jump bound to Serroco given that the Bivoli had often served as a provisioning ship for the Navy throughout the Mandalorian Wars." The Mandalorian Wars needs some more context here.Carth Onasi could also use a little bit more context, i.e. "a [insert his position here] in the Courageous battle group."Admiral Saul Karath also needs some context as the leader of the Courageous battle group.In the "Destruction" section, you need to mention that Carrick and Gryph found another way off Serroco.- Good work so far, Nayayen :-). Grunny (Talk) 12:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
The images are too clustered together. Spread them out and make sure they alternate throughout the article (i.e. don't have two in a row on the right-hand side).- Almost there :-). Make sure you address the remaining objection in my first look. Grunny (Talk) 00:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- Lucky number three
You need to either connect the nickname Gryph to Marn Heirogryh, or simply refer to him as Heirogryph throughout. You can't assume the reader knows they are the same person.In the description section you have put all the references at the end of the paragraph but not all the information appears in all those sources. You need to reference the information where it appears. For example, "The Aurebesh for "Little Bivoli" could be seen on the sides of the ship above the sections which folded out." The aurebesh doesn't appear in the KotOR Campaign Guide so it can't be referenced to it.Is it possible expand the "Description" section to include things like its manufacturer, defensive capabilities or any other information you can find? Maybe that it was staffed by serving droids?- Getting so close :-). Make sure to read over any changes you make and relate them to previous objections to avoid creating more. Grunny (Talk) 05:11, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
- Cylka:
- In the KotOR handbook it says that Slyysk was kicked out of the Raff Syndicate before he learned how to pilot ships. It then goes to say that he stole the ship for Heirogryph. Please double check whether Slyysk is a member or former member of the Raff pirates.
- It was stolen from its original owners on Ralltiir by the Trandoshan Slyssk, a member of the Raff Syndicate, a pirate organization. It was stolen for the Snivvian black - Try to change around the beginning of one of these sentences. Both of them starting with "It was stolen" doesn't read that well.
- Characters should be referred to by their last name, if possible, once they are introduced. I have changed "Gryph" to "Heirogryph" whenever I found an instance, but please check the article to make sure I didn't miss any.
- Now that I did that, Heirogryph is used too many times in the article. Try to mix it up by using the Snivvian or black marketeer.
- Fringer is mentioned in the introduction, but not in the article proper. Also, the term fringer needs some context as to what it is.
- The Aurebesh for "Little Bivoli" could be seen on the sides of the ship above the sections which folded out.[6] - This sentence sounds a bit OOU. The characters in the SW universe know what Aurebesh is. Maybe you could rewrite this to say that the ship's name was written on the ship, and pipelink to the Aurebesh article.
- Is it possible to detail the description a bit more? In issues 14 and 15 we get a pretty detailed look at the ship. Since it is a mess ship, maybe you could go into a bit more detail about the "dining area" and galley. For instance, it appears as if the ship can fold out to provide a floor and awning overhead. These kinds of details would really add a lot to the article.
- In the first paragraph of the Acquisition section you talk about Carrick and Heirogryph needing to find a ship before mentioning the why they need to. This should be the other way around.
- Little did Carrick know, Heirogryph had hired the Trandoshan Slyssk, a member of the Raff Syndicate, a pirate organization, to steal a ship. - The "Little did Carrick know" makes it seem as if you are leading up to some kind of important revelation, but nothing is revealed. If there isn't going to be an important piece of information revealed, the beginning of the sentence should be rewritten.
- After a short discussion between the two, Carrick burst out in laughter at the futility of Heirogryph's argument. - What argument is this? All you stated in the previous sentence was that Heirogryph and Slyssk were talking. This needs to be clarified a bit more, or removed.
- Heirogryph pulled him out of the way fooling Slyssk into making a life-debt to Heirogryph. - What does this life debt have to do with the ship? What importance does it have? Either it needs to have context in relation to the ship. or it needs to be removed.
- At this point the previous owners arrived and started shooting at the trio and deciding to drop the matter in favor of saving themselves, Slyssk, Carrick and Heirogryph piled onto the Bivoli and took off. - This sentence could use a bit of a rewrite. The "... and ... and..." doesn't read that well. Also I believe that a different word other than "piled" would work better here. It gives the impression that they had to cram themselves into the ship.
- Maybe it would be better if you wrote that Heirogryph decided to continue with the ship's role as a provisioning ship. And maybe add in a bit as to why.
- According to Heirogryph, Trandoshans such as Slyssk weren't known for being good cooks because no-one had ever asked them to. - The ending of this sentence hangs a bit.
- Carrick was relegated to dish-washing and often it seemed, did not do so - I thought that he was dish-washing since the dish-washing droid had a malfunction. Can you please check on this.
- Carrick was forced to abandon his meditation when one of the serving droids dropped a tray of food on a soldier's coat. After a brief meeting with Carth Onasi, a lieutenant in the Courageous battle group, Carrick went to find Heirogryph counting large piles of credits in a room in the ship and stated how he felt they should pull out before the Mandalorians arrived. - These sentences don't seem to connect with each other very well. How are they related? To someone that doesn't know the story, this would enlighten them. How does Onasi fit into all of this besides Carrick meeting him? And what does all of this have to do with the Bivoli?
- It was now that Carrick had his Force vision of the Mandalorians bombing Serroco, what would later be the turning point of the imminent Battle of Serroco, - I was under the impression that the bombing was "The Battle of Serroco."
- Is there any other information about the Bivoli in John Jackson Miller's blog?
- Please take care of these objections and I will take another look at this article. Also, please remember that on Wookieepedia, American English is used. Cylka-talk- 17:04, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
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