Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Liberation of slave camps

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Liberation of slave camps

(2 ACs/1 Users/3 Total)

Support

  1. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:50, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Hopefully others will catch anything I've missed. CC7567 (talk) 06:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
  3. ACvote 1358 (Talk) 19:06, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Object

Moffship
First glance
  • You give a time of 32 BBY in the intro but no in the body. Can you find a place to work it in?
  • Likewise mention the Invasion of Naboo in the Prelude section, as it is currently only mentioned in the intro.
  • I'll try to read it fully soon. Grunny (talk) 02:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
QGJ
  • "He had to report into his captain, who told him to continue." Feels kinda redundant and play-by-play.
  • The link to the minelayer leads to an Imperial transport. Please find an appropriate article to link to, or create one.
  • Please make a mention of the Trade Federation forces destroying a bridge in Ferentina, as this I believe was the reason why the prisoners had to switch to the speeders.
  • "One of the speeders collapsed the rock bed behind them" Please check this. In my version, the rock is collapsed by an N-1 starfighter, i.e. either Sykes or Deviss.
  • "This event is comprised of two concurrent missions" Concurrent means that the two missions took place at the same time, while they clearly did not as one followed the other. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 11:46, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
    • Re-worded. We have the same version, but evidently not the same memory. And "succeeding" was the word I was looking for. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 12:24, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
    • All of the above have been addressed. Sorry if there was confusion.
Xd1358
  • There are a few links to redirects in the infobox.
  • Infobox: "RNSF liberated captured civilians.[1]" The outcome in the infobox should not be in imperfect, but in present tense.
  • Infobox: There is no need for a bullet if there's only one item in the box (combatants).
  • "A number of slave camps were liberated during the Trade Federation Droid Army Invasion of Naboo in 32 BBY." That sounds strange. Perhaps "A number of slave camps were liberated during the Invasion of Naboo in 32 BBY. The Trade Federation Droid Army had..."
  • "The droid forces had quickly established a number of to hold captured prisoners." Number of what?
  • More to come. -- 1358 (Talk) 07:48, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • All of the above addressed.
  • I don't think you can source the "conflict" item in the infobox to the NEC. I doubt it says that this event took place during the invasion of Naboo. The Battle for Naboo as reference should be fine.
    • To be accurate, I feel it should be left as-is. The NEC establishes that the Invasion of Naboo takes place in 32 BBY, and this article takes place during that event. BFN does not specify the conflict as "the Invasion of Naboo." And if we make the change here, we'd have to make it on all the articles. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 15:32, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
      • However, the NEC doesn't say that the liberation took place during the invasion. I am quite sure that the game in somehow reveals that the events take place during the invasion. -- 1358 (Talk) 19:40, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
        • I made a change to the reference for Mission to the Naboo mountains. Would that work? If so I will change the ref here. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 10:14, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
          • My point still stands. If the NEC doesn't say that the liberation of slave camps took place during the invasion of Naboo, you can't source the fact with the NEC. -- 1358 (Talk) 17:13, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
            • Okay, fine. I changed it. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 18:37, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
            • That is to say, I moved the NEC to properly reflect the source of the date and placed the game as the source of the Invasion.
  • Infobox, "strength" item: How can a Neimoidian slave camp be a combatant? -- 1358 (Talk) 15:18, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • Links moved to losses.
      • I feel that the fact doesn't belong there either. It wasn't really a combatant, and therefore it can not be a loss, IMO. I suggest you remove it. -- 1358 (Talk) 19:40, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
        • Would the same apply for Ferentina, then?
          • Ferentina is fine. However, I have an idea for that slave camp thing. My suggestion is that you change the outcome to...
            RNSF victory
            *Neimoidian slave camps liberated
            How is this "neimoidian" thing relevant anyway? It sounds like there were neimoidians in the slave camps. TF slave camps would be better. -- 1358 (Talk) 16:35, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
New subsection to make things easier :P
  • I think there is a civilian casualties parameter available in the infobox. I think you could add Ferentina there instead.
  • "After raiding a Trade Federation Disabled Trade Federation base.." Eh, that doesn't sound good.
  • "Lieutenant Gavyn Sykes used a captured gunboat to infiltrate the camps and knock out the power generators, disabling the camps and freeing the prisoners." In an earlier sentence you say that they liberated one camp, while here they are many. Please be consistent.
  • That's it from the intro, I guess. -- 1358 (Talk) 16:40, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pipelink [[Prison/Legends|prisoner]]
  • Prelude
  • Could you start the prelude a bit different, like "in 32 BBY, the TF invaded then Naboo", y'know?
  • Context on the slave camps. Something like "slave camps established by the TF" would be good.
  • Context on the prisoners as well. Again, something small like "release imprisoned Naboo inhabitants" would suffice.
  • -- 1358 (Talk) 17:18, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Could you merge the second prelude sentence with the first one?
  • Link to the Trade Federation upon first mention.
  • -- 1358 (Talk) 12:24, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
    • The merging of the two sentences necessitated the removal of the first mention of TF. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 12:39, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
      • That's fine, as long as everything is linked upon first mention. -- 1358 (Talk) 18:30, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • "He reported to his flight lead.." Who was his flight lead?
  • "Kael contacted Sykes and said that Borvo the Hutt was.." Context on Borvo.
  • I think that three subsections is too many. Could you cut it down to two?
  • "The base was alerted to his presence when he opened fire.." Opened fire on whom?
  • "..the camp launched more gunboats at him." The camp can't launch gunboats. "and more gunboats was launched from the camp.." would be better.
  • Context on Vedd Deviss.
  • "The civilians were free, but the resistance did not have enough transports." Enough transports to do what?
  • "..trapping the convoy behind it." Behind the destroyed bridge or the river?
  • Context on Lutin Hollis.
  • Release date for BfN?
  • I'll read through the article one more time after you have fixed these. -- 1358 (Talk) 06:02, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • The infiltration paragraph is too long, please split. -- 1358 (Talk) 12:13, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
    • Indeed. New paragraph formed.
Attack of the Clone
  • I really would recommend that you find and implement images that aren't riddled with the nasty gameplay artifacts. On that note, any image that is not from an in-game cutscene may not even be canon, as what the player does in the game isn't exactly the same as what actually happened in canon. Please find a way to work around this—otherwise, both current images may have to be removed.
    • I'll see what I can do.
      • Those images really are the best I can get without nasty gameplay artifacts. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 19:12, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
        • I don't know where all that excessive whitespace in the images came from, but please do what you can to crop it out. CC7567 (talk) 06:52, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • Why are the power generators listed in the forces? When it comes down to it, all mechanical technology is powered by some sort of generator or fuel, so I don't see why these deserve special mentions when they don't actually do anything except maintain the slave camps and don't directly affect the battle.
    • Removed per your objection, but the power generators are specific mission objectives.
  • Please establish from the very beginning of the intro (as in the first sentence) what the slave camps were affiliated with.
    • Done.
  • The last three sentences of the intro are rather choppy, and I would recommend merging them somehow to improve the sentence flow. In addition, you might consider moving this article to something like "Liberation of the Trade Federation slave camps"—although yes, it's longer, it's also much clearer.
    • Sentences smidged. Is the second part of this objection a formal request?
      • Yes, it is; apologies for not clarifying that. While it's not necessary, I think it would make the article much more specific. CC7567 (talk) 06:52, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
        • Please note that this objection still remains; it's the last one from me. CC7567 (talk) 06:55, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
          • Liberation of 'the' camps imply all the camps were liberated, doesn't it? Just some of them were liberated during this engagement. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 16:08, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
            • I disagree to a certain level, as sometimes ambiguity is better than a lack of specificity, but I see your point, so I digress. CC7567 (talk) 06:12, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
  • "Lieutenant Gavyn Sykes and his flight leader": is the latter Captain Kael or not? If it is, please mention him as such instead of as the flight leader.
    • Done.
  • There are several places in which an apparent misuse of unestablished English idioms makes it unclear what you're trying to say. These places include uses of "clear passage," "block the water off," "keeping his identity secure," etc.
    • Nixed.
  • Throughout the entire article, there are numerous short and choppy sentences that make the wording overall very play-by-play. Please see what you can do to improve this and create longer sentences for better flow.
    • Addressed.
      • I'll double check this in my second review when the rest of the objections are fixed. CC7567 (talk) 06:52, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • Although it's conjecturally titled, it seems to me like "Devils Tower" is missing some vital punctuation. Please adjust accordingly.
    • It doesn't necessarily need an apostrophe; it could just be a name like "Jones Tower."
      • Well, the issue is that "Devils" is clearly a plural noun, while "Jones" isn't. Using "Devils" in that way therefore requires an apostrophe. Please verify with the source and clarify. CC7567 (talk) 16:18, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
        • [[1]] Forum request pending.
          • Since I'm honestly not sure how much response that forum is going to get, I'd advise you to make a decision on what to do—the name still lacks an apostrophe from a professional standpoint, and it should conform to regular grammatical rules if it's only a conjectural name. CC7567 (talk) 04:38, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • What exactly is the "bonus objective"? Please clarify. CC7567 (talk) 23:25, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • Please provide context for Devils tower throughout the article. It isn't immediately clear what it is. CC7567 (talk) 06:57, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
wut where
  • Please do something to the images. As CC said, crop them. And to be honest, they are bad quality. You can't have images like that. Please do something to them. 1358 (Talk) 19:53, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
    • How, in Microsoft Paint? I have no imaging skills whatsoever. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 21:32, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
      • With all due respect, CP, it's your responsibility as the nominator to ensure that all the images within the article are up to snuff. This is per nomination Rule 16, which states that a GAN must "include a reasonable number of images of sufficient quality to illustrate the article, if said images are available." You're welcome to ask the community for help with obtaining images, but don't rely on the AgriCorps to take care of this for you. The images currently gracing this article are horrible at best and really don't belong on any article, much less a GA. That being said, please understand that this nomination isn't going to receive any special treatment while you take the time to track down quality images. This is something that should be taken care of before nomination, so we're not just going to leave this thing to idle in the meantime. If this objection isn't satisfied within the requisite two weeks' time, a removal vote for the nomination will be started. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:56, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • That the "Nal Raka criminal empire" participated is infobox-only.
  • "…to hold captured prisoners…" Captured prisoners? o_O You mean they became prisoners after they were captured?
  • "…after securing the capital city of Theed.…" Whose capital city? Perhaps "…after securing the capital city of Naboo, Theed.…"
  • "After raiding a disabled Trade Federation base…" I thought it was disabled in the raid.
  • "Borvo the Hutt, an ally of the Security Forces…" I'm not familiar with the source material, but is he an ally of the Security Forces as a whole?
  • "When Syke's…" Something wrong there?
  • 1358 (Talk) 17:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
    • For the record, I suggest that you use less ambiguos answers. When you replied "I always mean what I say", I thought that "captured prisoners" was correct, and that you didn't change it. Thanks. 1358 (Talk) 17:50, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • "This also prevented the camps from sending out a warning to the rest of the facility." What are you refering to with "facility"? "The large bay area" mentioned earlier?
  • "The base was alerted to his presence when Sykes fired on the camp." What camp? You have only mentioned a base.
  • The images are too big. Shrink them to 250 pixels or something.
  • "Sykes collapsed the rock bed behind them as the civilians waited for transport…" Behind whom?
  • "Lutin Hollis, another member of Syke's…" Baaad apostrophe. :P
  • That is all from me. I'm impressed that you have actually played a game with that kind of graphics. :P 1358 (Talk) 17:50, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Infobox objections first. The Combatants field should really be listed in order of primary importance. Is there any specific reason the Nal Raka Criminal Empire is listed before the NRSF? Because it seems to me like it should be the other way around. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:16, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
    • Alphabetical order, from when it was "Borvo's mercenaries." I can change that. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 18:45, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
      • I think that would be for the best. Alphabetical order is less of a priority in this case. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:48, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
        • Done. Does alphabetical order matter for strength, or is roughly order of appearance? Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 18:53, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
          • I've always preferred to order the Strength field pretty much the same way, in order of strength/importance. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:00, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
  • Intro objections next. The attribution line for the intro quote needs some clarification, I think. Deviss is clearly addressing a "you." Who is this you? Sykes? Please specify.
  • Took to the air in an N-1 starfighter? Something else? Please specify: "while Sykes took to the air and escorted the convoy"
  • What rendezvous point? What is the significance of this rendezvous point? Who are they rendezvousing with? "escorted the convoy past the blockade to the rendezvous point"
  • "Speeder" links to a disambig page. Can we be more specific here? Landspeeders or airspeeders, for example? "forcing the civilians to switch to speeders" Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:29, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • You've added this new clause about meeting up with the squadron? If this intended to reference Bravo Squadron, please specify this and link. Moreover, if this is Bravo Squadron, they should be introduced earlier in the intro rather than just name-dropped at this point: "before meeting with the rest of the squadron" Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:01, October 26, 2010 (UTC)
    • Okay, i've done my best to clarify. The dialogue doesn't specifically say why they are meeting near Ferentina. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 02:30, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
      • Very well, looks good. My review will continue with the rest of the article shortly. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:06, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
Jujiggum
  • There is currently info that is only present in the introduction.
  • There's also some info that's currently found only in the infobox.
    • I'm not seeing it. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower
      • Info in the strength section and combatants section. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 17:05, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
        • I think everything is in there. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower
          • You have no mention of Bravo Squadron or proximity mines anywhere in the article's prose. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:12, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
            • Okay, I added it. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 21:27, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
              • Okay, now I'm confused on one matter. By placing Bravo Squadron in the infobox, you infer that the whole squadron fought in the battle. But in the prose you've made it sound like Captain Kael was the only member of the squadron to fight. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:14, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
                • Well, no. The whole squadron was not there. How should I address the confusion? Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 01:19, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
                  • You should remove Bravo Squadron from the infobox. If the squadron didn't fight in the battle, then why would you say that they did? Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:26, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
                    • The whole squadron wasn't there, just a few members (Kael/Sykes). If that means I can't list the squadron there, then I will certainly remove it. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 01:36, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
                      • If the operation was backed by the squadron, then you can keep them in the combatants section, but it seems that Kael and Sykes were acting of their own accord, instead of with the whole squadron's support (if they were acting with the whole squadron's support, then why wasn't the squadron there to help in the fight?). Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 15:49, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
                        • Okay, I removed the Squadron references. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 04:03, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
                          • You didn't have to remove mentions of Bravo Squadron in the article prose; it served as good context there as to who the affiliated beings were, particularly since you refer to them with their military ranks (which I'm assuming are ranks within the squadron, no?). It just needed to be removed from the infobox combatants section because the squadron wasn't a combatant if Kael and Sykes weren't operating on behalf of the squadron itself. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 04:12, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • Maybe worth mentioning in the intro that Ferentina was destroyed?
  • "…and was able to rescue two more speeders" Were there people in these speeders? If so, please specify as such, and if not, it might be more appropriate to say that he "recovered two abandoned speeders," or something similar.
  • "Sykes collapsed the rock bed behind them and then landed to take one of the speeders." Do you mean one of the speeders that he had rescued earlier? If so, could you please specify that?
  • That's all. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 19:38, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the advice. I just wanted to check one of your changes. Borvo's freighters are conjecturally titled. So does it make sense to say 3 of the freighters instead of 3 freighters? Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower
      • That's actually the reason I made that change: saying "3 Borvo the Hutt's freighters" makes "Borvo the Hutt's freighters" sound like an official name, because it is gramatically incorrect—without saying 3 of his freighters, the only way that it could be correct would be if it was the actual name. However, the name is conjectural, but since we know that they were Borvo's frieghters, we can say 3 of Borvo's freighters, and be gramatically and factually correct. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 17:05, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
Moffship II
  • "...and established a number of slave camps to use Neimoidian slave drivers to hold captured Naboo prisoners." - I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to mean. I take it that the "Neimoidian slave drivers" are individuals, but they sound more like a contraption of some sort in this sentence.
  • "This also prevented the camps from sending out a warning to the rest of the camps." - which camps could not send the warning, and which could not receive it? This is somewhat confusing.
  • I don't think it's necessary to mention the technology hidden behind Devils tower in the body, though it certainly belongs in the BTS. It appears to me that this technology is equivalent to the holocrons found in The Force Unleashed, for example - finding one would not be mentioned in an article.
    • I disagree; they're completely different concepts. These upgrades have a legitimate effect on gameplay (as vehicle upgrades) and are necessary for completing the bonus objectives. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower
      • The holocrons in TFU have a legitimate effect on gameplay as well, and are also necessary for completing bonus objectives. I'm going to have to insist that you move all the information on the technology to the BTS. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 16:18, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
      • Ah, I see. I feel for the article to be fully inclusive and comprehensive, the info must stay as it is currently presented. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower
        • Then I'm afraid this objection will remain unstruck. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 00:01, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • This bickering is pointless. I already have two AC votes, neither of whom have said the information is misplaced. Besides, thats why we have the Gamemechanics tag to begin with. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 03:09, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
            • I do hate to say this, but a review by one or two ACs does not always guarantee perfection; that's why each nomination must undergo three AC reviews to pass—so just because something doesn't come up in an objection doesn't always mean that it's perfect in its present form. In terms of this specific objection, I personally cannot provide any help, as I'm not familiar enough with gameplay to be of any help, but I would recommend for more, proper discussion on the matter until a compromise can be reached. CC7567 (talk) 04:09, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
              • Look, Grand Moff Tranner. Would it make a difference if I said finding the upgrade in the Mission to the Naboo mountains actually is a side quest, and the Unidentified Naboo homestead owner refers to it in dialogue: "Here, officer, I have something to show you." ? 99.110.172.21 00:24, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
                • Yes, it would. Therefore, you should expand on it to include these details - simply saying "Flying around the landmark, he picked it up" is not enough if a homestead owner gives him access to the technology. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 01:04, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
                  • Actually, that is an example from another mission. The upgrade for this level (slave camps) is found by flying around Devils tower. My point is that there is more to these upgrades than just picking them up. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 01:11, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
                    • Perhaps you could explain the details of finding the technology to me. Is it just floating in midair? How is it hidden? Do you learn of its presence prior to discovering it, or do you just happen upon it by chance? I've never played the game, and, thus far, your explanations have not been particularly helpful to your case. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 20:55, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • Possibly more to come. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 22:11, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
Jefferson
  • Is there a quote from The Phantom Menace about taking Naboo civilians to camps that you could use for the Prelude section?
  • Can you trim down some of the recounts of dialogue between Sykes and Kael? Describing every line of every conversation is the dreaded "play-by-play" that I'm always campaigning against. For example, "Sykes then arrived in a large bay area, where some of the camps were located. Sykes contacted Kael, who told him to free the prisoners." could be cut down to something like "Sykes then arrived in a large bay area where some of the camps were located, and was ordered by Kael to free the prisoners." I realize that that's a really small trim and that this objection seems incredibly nitpicky, but avoiding play-by-play is a really good habit to get into. "Reassuring Hollis that the captain was okay" might not be entirely necessary, either.
  • "Took out" seemed a tad too colloquial. I changed it to "destroyed" in both cases --- s'it OK?
  • That's all. Really good to see you moving up from the CAN page to the GAN page. Keep at it! Menkooroo 05:01, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

Vote to remove nomination (AC only)

  1. Inqvote Nominator has announced his departure from the site on a lengthy vacation and concedes the forfeiture of his existing nominations. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:20, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 00:07, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:31, December 1, 2010 (UTC)