Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Hija/Legends

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Hija

  • Nominated by: Darth Morrt 10:31, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:Second article of my "source by source" project from the ANH novel.

(4 ACs/4 Users/8 Total)

Support

  1. The quality of this article is now much hija. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 00:25, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Hija kids, Hija wife, and Hija husband, cuz they're Premium-Era-real rapin' errbody out here! on www.youtube.com (backup link not verified!) Menkooroo 12:51, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
  3. I remember when this was a stub a long time ago, now like many other ex-stubs possibly a good article :)Hanzo Hasashi 21:22, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 15:40, October 25, 2010 (UTC)
  5. Awesome pic. BonslywizardTrade Federation(Send a transmission) 22:37, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
  6. ACvote CC7567 (talk) 10:03, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
  7. ACvote Assuming that Toprawa's objections are handled. 1358 (Talk) 13:08, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
  8. ACvote Superb job persevering through the objections, Morrt. The article was a bit rough in its original state, but I think it's a well refined final product now. Keep adapting what you've learned here into future articles. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:39, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

Object

Passing objection
  • Something is wrong with the Bts quote. Please fix. 1358 (Talk) 18:55, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
  • Something's wrong with reference 7, too. It doesn't look nice at the moment 1358 (Talk) 16:41, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • Could you expand the intro a bit? It seems a bit short at the moment. 1358 (Talk) 22:03, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Hija there!
  • References go after punctuation.
  • in charge of the gunnery stations of the ship You should mention his actual rank as opposed to it's description. Also, could there be an article for chief gunnery officer?
  • Hija had the necessary skills and traits to complete his training at the Imperial Academy If he passed, why isn't it in the bio? Or is this just an assumption based on the fact that he is in the Navy?
    • It is just an assumption. I reworded it to be true even for an incompetent nephew of a VIP. Darth Morrt 13:46, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
      • Eh, still an assumption, really. There's nothing to suggest that he passed in Academy, although it would be a logical inference. It should be removed entirely. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 03:53, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • It was accepted to assume that Bodo Baas's Master was a Jedi, who completed the Jedi training, when I worked on that article. Altough it is not stated, that he/she was actually a Jedi, not an autodidacta Force-user. Couldn't I apply the duck-test here? Hija is an officer of the Navy, who graduated from the Academy, like every other officers of the Navy - until some source tells otherwhise. Darth Morrt 10:44, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • Actually, thinking about it, I don't think the Bodo Baas' Master article should make that sort of assumption... Did the source say "padawan" or "apprentice"? Back to the article at hand, if you want that statement to stay, you should at least find a source stating that Imperial officers have to pass through the academy. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 11:23, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • recognize his doing. Could you find another way to say that? Doing isn't the best word to use in a majority of cases.
  • Speculation in the BTS should be removed.
  • I'm not sure that the bit about Spaced is notable. Your thoughts?
  • The bit about the Spanish meaning should be removed. Normally, these things are only allowed when the meaning has a direct relationship with the subject.
  • Spelling mistake in BTS
  • I've got a second pun ready for my support vote, provided I don't forget :P SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is a lie) 09:14, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • Hija? That means "Daughter" in Spanish. It should be in the Behind the scenes section.--Lord David 14:00, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
    • It is most likely just coincidence. Darth Morrt 16:30, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
      • Yes; if it isn't confirmed that the name comes from Spanish, it shouldn't be added. 1358 (Talk) 17:16, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm sure it was a coincidence too, but regardless of wether that's the name's origin or not, it is like some kind of "curiosity", and I've seen many things like that in other articles.--Lord David 14:50, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, you can see this kind of curiosities, but not in quality articles (CA, GA, FA) Darth Morrt 11:16, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
Well, I never thought such "detail" could make the quality of the article lower. But if you don't want to put it then don't do it.--Lord David 02:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
If it's trivia unrelated to the subject, it should be kept out. If there were any confirmation that this guy's name and the spanish word were related, it would be noteworthy. Also, please remember to strike your original objection, else the article won't be able to pass. Menkooroo 15:53, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
Byeja
  • "during the rise of the galactic civil war" sounds kinda odd. I can see "rise" being associated with a group, like the Empire, but I think "early stages" might be a better word choice.
  • Context needed on Darth Vader in the intro (even just "Lord" or something).
  • "to stop the plague..." what plague? Specify.
  • Maybe mention who ordered him not to fire in the intro.
  • Is the bio quote from The Lesser Evil? If so, source it to that, not to the SOTE sourcebook. If not, you're all good. :^D
  • Similarly, if the info in the bio is from The Lesser Evil, it needs to be sourced to that.
  • Does The Lesser Evil/SOTE sourcebook state that Falleen is in the mid rim? If not, it'll need to be sourced to something else.
    • Right now, "Hija was one of the chief gunnery officers of the ship when the Devastator" is sourced to The Essential Atlas. It should look something like this: "Hija was one of the chief gunnery officers of the ship when the Devastator arrived at the[5] Mid Rim planet[4] Falleen as a part of Lord Vader's exploration tour visiting Imperial weapon development projects.[5]" I could have sofixedit, but hopefully it'll be a sourcing tip you can keep in mind for the future. :^)
      • Fixed. I used two different source. Vader's exploration trip is from the Fact Files, but chief gunnery officer can be sourced only to other. Darth Morrt 16:11, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
  • The first sentence of the bio's second paragraph really drags on. Can you split it up?
  • A little info on who Senator Organa is and why Vader wanted to capture her corvette is in order.
  • A New Hope doesn't actually state that he was ordered to hold his fire in order to conserve power --- is that an assumption, or is the info from another source?
  • Give context on the DS-1 Orbital battle station. What is it? Is it the Empire's? Why does Artoo have the plans for it?
  • I actually agree with Soresu's objection --- if no source states that Hija specifically attended the Imperial Academy, then the article can't assume it. He could have been an exceptional case --- no matter how unlikely it seems, the fact remains that we don't know and can't assume. However --- I feel like the sentence could be reworded to convey the same information without making an assumption. Something like "Hija was a lieutenant[2], a rank in the Imperial navy that was awarded to crew-man cadets who completed training at the Imperial Academy.[7] IMO, that would be OK. Whaddya think?
  • In an effort to slightly beef up the p&t, maybe it'd be worth mentioning that he followed orders unhesitatingly. There are two instances of it to source, after all.
  • "Hija is addressed as "Chief Pilot", although he managed the weapons." Tense switch there --- can you keep it consistent? Menkooroo 15:53, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think all are fixed. The novel's Bolvan-Hija dialog is different from the film's. In the novel, Bolvan adds "don't waste your power" at the end. I added this dialog to the P&t as a quote, but I have cut the words that don't match with the film. Darth Morrt 15:21, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • Just one more --- the final sentence of bts should be sourced to Visual Guide 4: Artoo's Mission, as it's not a self-sourcing statement. And I feel like you'll need to find a source confirming that Foster ghost-wrote Star Wars --- that info isn't available in any published version of the book, so it's not self-sourcing. The jacket of The Approaching Storm hardcover states it, off the top of my head... Menkooroo 00:58, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
    • I have a .lit e-book titled: Star Wars - Episode IV - A New Hope - From the Journal of the Whills - by George Lucas - Revised Forth Draft - January 15, 1976. It is the full script of the film. I was referring to this, not to the Visual Guides.
      • OK... so source that, then. Menkooroo 02:54, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
        • Isn't it selfsourcing then? Or this is not a real published work? It doesn't have its own article. Maybe my version is just a cut from Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays. I source it to the Visual Guides. Darth Morrt 09:26, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
          • I think it would only be self-sourcing if it were a published work that we had an article on that the reader could check out. ... Do we have an article on it? :/ Anyway, great job with the article. :^D Menkooroo 12:45, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
    • Foster sourced. It is in the inner side of the softcover edition's back cover too. Darth Morrt 02:47, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
Jujiggum
  • "In 0 BBY, during the Galactic Civil War, Hija was still serving as a chief gunnery officer…" What do you mean, "still"? You never said that he was in that position before, so how can he "still" be there?
    • He is mentioned as chief gunnery officer in the third sentence of the Bio.
  • "While the troopers of the 501st elite stormtrooper legion boarded the captured corvette…" Wait, so it's captured? The last time you mentioned it they were still in pursuit of the corvette.
    • Fixed.
  • You make it sound as though the escape pods were sentient beings who were trying to get away. :P Please clarify that this wasn't the case.
    • Fixed.
  • The P&T quote is formatted incorrectly. If you intend to show that there was a brief pause between each speaking line, then no parentheses or elipses are actually necessary. However, if you are putting them there in order to indicate some words being left out, then they should be encased in brackets as opposed to parentheses, like so: […].
    • Fixed. I have cut the words, that are different in the film.
  • Nice work. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 04:20, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review and for the fixes. However, I am not completely agree with two of your changes on the article. In the Intro, I mentioned "Vader's later flagship", because I can't prove, that Devastator was his flagship in 7 BBY. In Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji, Vader moved his flag from Vengeance (Imperial-class, Jerec) to Devastator early in the Civil War. A ship doesn't automatically becames flagship if Vader is aboar, does it? In the Bio image, I said "this escape pod", because there were other pods, that were fired on. Your opinion? Darth Morrt 11:19, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Okay, to the first point: I see your reasoning here. Definitely go ahead and reword it, but "Vader's later flagship" just read very awkwardly and didn't make a whole lot of sense without the explanation you just gave me (which obviously you can't stick in the article). As for the second: it is better to say "the escape pod" because in the body we identify the situation and the particular escape pod, so we don't have to reintroduce it over again. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 14:09, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • Reworded. The mention of flagship is cut from the Intro and clear in the Bio. Darth Morrt 09:07, October 25, 2010 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • ANH radio drama, ANH radio drama script, ANH PhotoComic, Star Wars: Behind the Magic, ANH book-and-record, whatever this is, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, and the Marvel ANH adaptations all need to be checked for new info and inclusion into the Appearances and Sources lists. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:27, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
    • The scene is missing from the radio drama, photocomic, original book-and-record. I didn't find Hija in BtM and asked other users to check the three other source. Darth Morrt 11:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • Also no additional info in drama script, speced book-and-record and annotated screenplay. Darth Morrt 12:24, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
    • And also nothing in the Marvel adaptation of ANH. Darth Morrt 03:55, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • The article's referencing is almost a complete mess. I can't imagine why an article as brief as this requires 15 different reference items from things as obscure and unrelated to this article subject as Slave Ship and Battlefront II. An article should be referenced as sparingly, as concisely, and as relevantly as possible. For example, the article can find a much more relevant source in relation to Hija for Reference 9 than the Rebellion Era Sourcebook. Choose a source that Hija actually appears in. If you're finding that you can't source a bit of information to a source that Hija appears in, then you should seriously be considering whether that bit of information is even necessary for this article. For example, details about the 501st Legion's involvement in the capture of the ship are almost entirely irrelevant to Hija's minuscule role in the battle and are most likely just extraneous to the focus of this article. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:25, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
    • Reduced to 10 ref. Darth Morrt 01:32, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
      • Referencing looks much better. On a further note, I've given a copyedit of the intro and have tweaked and rewritten some of the text. Please review it and let me know if you have any issues. I'll review the remainder of the article shortly. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:16, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
        • The intro is a lot better, thanks. One thing: I am not sure that the Devastator was Vader's flagship when it bombarded Falleen. In Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji, "Vader transferred his flag to the Devastator" in 1 BBY. I haven't found a proof for the Devastator being his flagship in 7 BBY, that's why I didn't mentioned it in context to the bombardment. Darth Morrt 22:22, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
          • Very good point. I made a minor tweak to that end. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:34, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • The article's biography needs to provide a source for the date 7 BBY. At present, the article sources this date to Hija's CSWE entry, which does not assert this date at all. Toprawa and Ralltiir 07:06, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • Done. SOTE sourcebook, which is set to 3 ABY, states that the bombardment happened ten years earlier. Darth Morrt 10:43, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • The entire first two and a half sentences of the article, in fact, need to have their referencing adjusted. This is all currently sourced to the CSWE Hija entry, which does not even mention half of what is detailed here: "The Human male Hija was a member of the Galactic Empire's Navy during the Imperial Period. By 7 BBY, he was serving under Captain Bolvan as a lieutenant aboard the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer Devastator, commanded by the Dark Lord Darth Vader. Hija was one of the chief gunnery officers" Toprawa and Ralltiir 07:15, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • Fixed. Darth Morrt 10:43, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
      • Looks good now. As part of my continuing review, I've made some further wording tweaks to the first paragraph and added a paragraph break after the first two sentences to try and cut down on the block of text. See if this works for you and let me know if you have any issues. If you don't like the way it looks, we can nix that paragraph break. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:09, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • The article states that "Hija was one of the chief gunnery officers aboard the Devastator," which is sourced to the CSWE Hija entry. However, that entry states that Hija was "the Imperial chief gunnery officer aboard the Star Destroyer Devastator," not one of them. Unless you have a competing source, the article should be adjusted to reflect this. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:09, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • From the ANH novel: "[Bolvan] was listening with pleasure to the proceedings on the captured vessel when one of his chief gunnery officers called to him." Should I add the "EP4NOVEL" ref here or this proves only that there were more than one CGO on Devastator in 0 BBY. Darth Morrt 01:45, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
      • Star Wars Encyclopedia also states that Hija was "the Imperial chief gunnery officer aboard the Star Destroyer Devastator." Given the majority of sources in this case, both of which trump the novel in terms of being more recently published, I think it would be best if the article asserted this information rather than the novel, unless you can find another competing source. The BTS should then make mention of this discrepancy as a continuity inconsistency. Toprawa and Ralltiir 05:39, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
        • Done. I should also correct the articles of Gunnery captain, Chief gunnery officer and Bolvan, right? Darth Morrt 08:59, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
          • Yes, definitely add notes to any relevant articles. You might also consider adding a SWE reference to that bit along with the CSWE just to demonstrate the majority of sources in this case. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:26, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • I have several issues with the P/T, which I will outline in the following bullets:
    • Firstly, I don't think the novel's quote can be asserted in such a way as the P/T does. What you're essentially doing is just picking and choosing which lines don't contradict the corresponding film quote, and we can't pick and choose our canon. Normally I would say just stick the novel quote into the BTS as a contradiction, but since this information is adapted into the biography, I'd say just go ahead and present the quote's entire dialogue.
      • I don't understand why this kind of pick-and-choose is not acceptable. The cut words are overridden by a higher canon-level source. I wouldn't like to add the full dialogue, because it is not entirely canon. What if I simple drop this quote from the article? Darth Morrt 02:06, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • This is a rather absolute statement that is not asserted in such literal terms in either of the sources referencing this. The article should instead supplement this by demonstrating the instances in which he carried out his orders unhesitatingly: "Hija followed the orders of his superiors unhesitatingly."
      • Like this? Darth Morrt 02:06, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
        • Yes, though please pay closer to your grammar. I know English is apparently not your first language, but there are frequent translation issues here. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:04, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • I would really suggest just removing this bit about lieutenants at the Imperial Academy. This information isn't directly tied to Hija in any way, and it's almost acting as an indirect way of saying "well, he must have completed training as a crewman cadet at the Imperial Academy since he's a lieutenant," which is really just extrapolation and may even be bordering on Original Research. We wouldn't add this information to every single lieutenant character article, for example: "He was a lieutenant, a military rank in the Imperial Navy that was awarded to crew-man cadets who completed training at the Imperial Academy." Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:26, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • BTS points now.
    • I think the article can still find a more relevant source for Alan Dean Foster ghostwriting the ANH novel, which, strangely, is currently referenced to The Approaching Storm. The Special Edition 1997 re-publication of the novel features a forward by George Lucas in which he states that Foster ghostwrote the novel originally. I would suggest using this as the reference instead.
      • Fixed. I just didn't have any source to reference this, and someone advised me to refer to The Approaching Storm's dustjacket. Darth Morrt 22:11, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Is Forgeham not credited in the film, then? This should be explained.
      • Where can I check the full credits of the film? My version credits only two dozen main characters. Darth Morrt 22:11, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
        • Well, there's probably a few places you could check. I'm 99% sure Behind the Magic lists the full credits in the scene-by-scene feature. You could also try IMDB, or maybe YouTube. Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:37, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
          • BTM's credits seems to be the same like the one in the end of my copy of the film. Lots of technician/editor/supervisor, but only a few actor: mains, some generals, some rebel pilots. Nothing like Stormtrooper 1, Stormtrooper 2, Officer 1 etc. IMDB lists a lot more actor tagged as uncredited, but Forgeham is not on the list. And no one for 'Chief Pilot' or Hija. Darth Morrt 12:42, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
            • Yes, that should be correct. The film's credits don't specify who played every minor character, so it's safe to label someone like Forgeham as uncredited.
    • The article refers to "later sources" that contradict the novel in terms of whether Hija is the or one of the chief gunnery officers. Each one of these competing sources should be mentioned outright for reference. To go along with this, you've co-sourced this statement to Behind the Magic. Does BTM really refer to this issue?
      • Fixed. BTM has an entry for Hija. It also refers to him as 'the chief gunnery officer. Darth Morrt 22:11, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Please convince me why Sompeetalay's Facebook fan edition Visual Guide is necessary to be included as an external link. I don't consider it specifically notable enough. Can these images be found on SW.com anywhere? Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:04, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
      • These pictures are no longer availible on SW.com, and webarchives saved only the text of the articles. AFAIK, these pictures are availible only on Facebook, and only because I asked Sampeetalay's help a few month ago. If someone would like to check that source, the link makes it easier. Darth Morrt 22:11, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
        • Are you telling me that these images were originally on SW.com and Sompeetalay saved them and posted them on his Facebook page for posterity? Toprawa and Ralltiir 19:37, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
          • Exactly. The Visual Guides feature of SW-com has its own article. Darth Morrt 12:42, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
            • Very well. I don't think it's an ideal solution, but the Facebook link seems to be all we have. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:35, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • Please check The Star Wars Storybook for Hija appearance. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:54, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
    • Not pictured nor mentioned. Darth Morrt 12:42, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
The Wizard would have just shot the thing down
  • "...he was ordered by Captain whoever not to fire because the sensors didn't detect any life forms were aboard'. Whose sensors? His? The corvette's? The pod's?
  • That's it. :) --BonslywizardTrade Federation(Send a transmission) 15:54, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
    • Fixed. Darth Morrt 16:40, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
      • Not really. It sill doesn't state whose sensors they were. I'm sure the corvette would have a gunnery as well. --BonslywizardTrade Federation(Send a transmission) 21:00, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
Attack of the Clone
  • This isn't particularly sanctioned by site policy, but using quotes in the middle of a section is generally frowned upon, as they tend to be rather unwieldy. I would suggest finding another place for the Family Guy quote, if not either exchanging it with the current Bts quote or removing it altogether. CC7567 (talk) 06:22, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
Xd1358, round two
  • If he appears in Blue Harvest, I think it needs to be mentioned in the appearances section along with an {{Nc}} tag.
    • It is not non-canon, but non-Star Wars. Should it really be listed there? Darth Morrt 10:23, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • Particular reason for the Facebook external link? It seems redundant. 1358 (Talk) 10:01, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
    • The Visual Guides' are not availible on the official page any longer. The text was archived, but AFAIK these pictures can be found only on this Facebook page, thanks to Sompeetalay. If someone would like to check that source, the link makes it easier. Darth Morrt 10:20, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • Can you say which entry, volume and page in the CSWE mentions Hija in the appearances section? Same for the reference. 1358 (Talk) 11:20, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 23:39, December 4, 2010 (UTC)


  • The Bts's uniform section was added before I began to expand the article. I am not sure, whether it should be kept or cut. Darth Morrt 10:31, September 21, 2010 (UTC)
  • Might it be worth mentioning Hija and Bolvan's cameo in Blue Harvest? Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 18:42, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
  • It seems, this would be my first GA that reaches status before ascending to the top of the page :) Darth Morrt 10:22, November 27, 2010 (UTC)