Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Hero of Tatooine

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Hero of Tatooine

  • Nominated by: OLIOSTER (talk) 10:09, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: My first nomination ever, hoping I did a good job. Thanks to Xicer9 for a preliminary review.

(0 ACs/2 Users/2 Total)

Support

  1. Your first vote ever, then. Skippy Farlstendoiro 08:53, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Pre-nom review. Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 00:14, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Object

  1. Round One
    • "The hermit made his opposition of the Galactic Empire clear within the first few minutes of the two's dialogue, a view the spacer shared." It's been a while since I played that quest, but are you sure that the spacer agreed with the hermit? It sounds kinda pov-ish, and the spacer could have been aligned with the Empire.
      • As I noted in the Behind the scenes section, if, during your conversation, you make your support for the Empire clear to the hermit, he will refuse to talk to you, so no quest happens if you do. OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
        • It's good for now. Also, I haven't read the BtS yet. ;) JangFett (Talk)
    • You say "spacer" quite a lot throughout the intro and parts of the bio.
      • I tried to vary it as much as possible with other synonyms for it from the spacer article. I went through and used more, as well as terms like "would-be hero". OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • "The hermit wondered if the spacer could become worthy of being named a hero, which the spacer boastfully claimed they could." Hero of what? Also, this sentence is quite confusing. You say that the hermit wondered if the spacer can be that hero, although in the next part you say they could.
      • This little bit is taken almost verbatim from the conversation between the two. First the hermit is unsure, and your response is to say that you can be the hero, and has the hermit respond that maybe you could. SWG at its very worst writing, I'm afraid. However, it doesn't really belong in the intro, so I removed it. OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
        • "The hermit required the spacer to show good faith toward him. He told the spacer to find a squill] skull he had misplaced, which the spacer retrieved. The hermit then agreed to help the spacer become the Hero of Tatooine." These short, choppy sentences can be condensed into one sentence. Also, keep in mind of pbp (play by play). pbp is discouraged, as it's not encyclopedic.
    • "The hermit then agreed to help the spacer become a hero." A hero of what?
    • The intro is unusually structured, and could be condensed.
      • Condensed it into two paragraphs. OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • Be careful, as I see numerous of tense shifting in the intro.
      • Hopefully adressed. :) OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • I see this "hero" pop up throughout the intro, and, as the reader, I don't quite understand what is going on. Can you explain eariler in the intro what this "hero" is about? I know what you mean (Galaxies-wise), but not everyone played the game.
    • As for the intro condensing, the second paragraph of the intro has too much detail. You can explain what these "four traits" are, but straight-to-the-point. Same goes for the third paragraph too.
      • Fixed, condensed all four into a simple description of each task and rolled the third paragraph into the second. OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
        • Good job with the condensing of the paragraphs; however, I'm not sure what you meant with this sentence: "For the first task, one of intellect, the would-be hero found a bounty hunter in one of the settlements on Tatooine and assisted her in discovering who her target was amongst a group of smugglers." Specifically, "one of intellect". Same goes with "one of courage".
          • It was meant to refer to the aforementioned task. While I don't see how it could be confusing, I clarified them. OLIOSTER (talk) 10:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
            • Yes; clarification was needed.
    • That's it for now. I'll read the first section of "history" once the intro objections are fixed. JangFett (Talk) 21:39, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
      • Hopefully this has all been addressed so you can move on to the next part. :) OLIOSTER (talk) 08:52, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
  2. Skippy Farlstendoiro objects the quest
    • Intro: I strongly believe that the qualities (Intellect, Honor, Courage, Altruism) should not use capital letters; they probably do so only as in-game words. Besides, in the History, they don't use capital letters.
    • Hist/A strange hermit:"the spacer quickly declared that they could become a hero." Do you mean he could? This is repeated in further paragraphs: "He told the spacer that if they truly wished", eg. I think "the spacer" can also be a group of spacers (players) and you alternatively refer to "the spacer" in singular or plural.
      • I used gender-neutral terms because the spacer, or spacers, can be any sex and virtually any species, or at least one of the playable species in SWG (Wookiee, Human, Rodian, etc). Also, the word they can refer to a single person, just something I had to use to keep it gender-neutral. As for using a group of spacers, while it is possible for a full group of 8 (the maximum in the game) to complete the quest together, the narrative of it is setup as if one person completed it at one time. OLIOSTER (talk) 13:52, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • The Mark of Intellect: Can you specify which "detective work" was performed to find the target? Interrogation, searching pockets, intimidation?
      • Clarified, it was interrogation. OLIOSTER (talk) 13:52, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • The Mark of Honor: 1st paragraph. Let me see. The hermit met with the pirates and told the pirates to look for the two besieged ranchers the pirates were already harassing?
      • Clarified a bit that he is talking to the spacer. OLIOSTER (talk) 13:52, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • If the "startled woman" is Helen Goldenfield, I suggest to add her name to the text. Also, her husband's.
      • Made their names visible in the body. OLIOSTER (talk) 13:52, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • The Mark of Altruism: Context on the Sennex on first mention.
      • Added that they were a criminal group in their first mention of that section. OLIOSTER (talk) 13:52, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
    • Good job; I'm waiting for your next nom. Skippy Farlstendoiro 08:09, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
  3. The Grand Master's first look
    • Just at first glance, I'm seeing linking issues. Remember, link everything once in the intro and once in the body.
      • Could you elaborate? OLIOSTER (talk) 05:39, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
        • I don't see how further elaboration is necessary. Simply put, the article's linking is currently inadequate. Please go through the article and make sure that everything is linked appropriately. Jonjedigrandmaster (Jedi Beacon) 15:47, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
          • Went through and linked some more things, but if you see anymore, please be specific. OLIOSTER (talk) 17:05, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
    • Also seeing lots of unnecessary fluff. Remember, this is an article about a title; anything that is not of significant importance to the title should be removed. (i.e. is any of the following really necessary: "The star-hopper greeted the old man and they began to chat, the spacer initially wondering what someone was doing living in the bottom of a cave filled with such ferocious creatures. The hermit explained that he had lived there for so long, the squill no longer bothered him. The conversation quickly turned to the sad state the galaxy was in, the hermit bemoaning the fact that criminals and pirates traveled freely, that the Old Republic had been shattered, the Jedi hunted to extinction, and that over all this, the shadow of the Galactic Empire loomed overhead." ?)
      • While I agree the initial part about why the hermit was living in the cave isn't necessary and I removed it, I believe the second part is needed to understand the reasoning behind the title and the adventure that went into it. OLIOSTER (talk) 05:39, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
        • I understand where you're coming from, but I still think it's too fluffily worded; a couple parts of the article could easily be cut down to be more concise. Also remember, this article should be mainly about the title. Right now it sounds more like it's about these characters' storylines. (And I understand that the quest is important, but right now it seems to be the article's focus, as opposed to the title itself.Jonjedigrandmaster (Jedi Beacon) 15:47, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
          • The article being less about the title and more about the adventure that went into it's creation and how the spacer gained it is intentional. I was trying to find a way to present these events and I didn't see any better way to go about it. The title is informal and didn't exist until the spacer did the things they did (which I added a note about to the intro). OLIOSTER (talk) 17:05, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
            • Okay, but the fact remains that this article is supposed to be about the title. What I would suggest to do would be to state the basic steps required to recieve the separate Marks and eventually the Hero of Tatooine title, and then just summarize how the spacer did it.) Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 17:24, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
              • I trimmed down the intro. Look it over and see if that is what you were looking for. However, I must still disagree with this objection for the various reasons I have already stated. OLIOSTER (talk) 20:39, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
                • Yes, the intro looks fine now, but it's the body I'm concerned about. The point I'm trying to make is that this is an article about a title. Trying to include every aspect of the quest in this article would be like taking the Jedi Master article and explaining how each Jedi Master made it to the Jedi Master level (including each and every mission along the way that helped to elevate them to the position), which would not only make the whole article very unwieldy but would also completely lose the focus of what the article was about to begin with. That information belongs in the character article; not the article about the title. As a title article, it should have information about the title itself, and then a summary of how the title could be obtained. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 23:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
                  • OK, by your reasoning, to me, there's no reason to have anything past the intro, which isn't much of an article to me. OLIOSTER (talk) 00:59, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
                    • That's not what I'm suggesting; the main point is that this is an article about a title and not an event. Therefore, the article's focus should be the title and a summary of how it is acquired. The way it reads now, it sounds like the article is about the storyline/quest. Yes, the quest is essential to the title, but it does not need to be nearly so play-by-play as it is now. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 01:21, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Jonjedigrandmaster (Jedi Beacon) 05:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
    • I understand that the spacer's gender has not been confirmed, but please use other pronouns than "they", because this can be confusing. (i.e. at the beginning of the body, you say "In 1.5 ABY, during the height of the Galactic Civil War, a lone spacer was exploring the Squill Cave on Tatooine. They ventured deep…" "They" who? I'd suggest using "the spacer" and synonyms for such. Also, please make a note of this unconfirmed gender in the BTS.
    • Also in the BTS, you should never address the reader as "you"; instead, simply refer to "the player" and synonyms for such. ("If the player is a supporter of the Galactic Empire and tells the hermit such when you initially talk to him, the hermit will refuse to offer the quest and tells you to return to him when your opinions have evolved.") Jonjedigrandmaster (Jedi Beacon) 15:47, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
    • Also, please change the "A strange hermit" heading, as "strange" is too POV. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 17:24, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
      • Changed the heading to "The hermit in the cave". OLIOSTER (talk) 17:38, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Comments

  • O_o our first title nom too. Not an easy task, since there's no set layout or infobox to use. Kinda reminds me of Grunny's first nom. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 15:33, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • Yes it did seem rather daunting to take on something without any precedent, but I really liked the quest chain and wanted to do it justice. OLIOSTER (talk) 15:39, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Vote to remove nomination (AC only)

  1. ACvote Objections unaddressed for three weeks. Nominator appears to be taking a leave of absence from the site, with recent contributions dating back to March 1. CC7567 (talk) 04:34, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
    • Nevermind, I misread the date; objections are only two weeks old. Vote halted for the time being. CC7567 (talk) 04:37, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Now it's been three weeks. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 13:48, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Bada-bing. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:13, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Grunny (talk) 04:47, March 22, 2010 (UTC)