Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/First skirmish in Cuipernam

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a good article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

First skirmish in Cuipernam

  • Nominated by: Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:30, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments:My first ever nom:)

(3 ACs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. I cleaned up some clunky wording and redundant linking. Trak Nar Ramble on 06:21, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Good job, Emperor. Hopefully you can GAN all five events. Menkooroo (talk) 09:27, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
  3. ACvote Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 08:49, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
  4. ACvote Finished product looks very good. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:26, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Finally got back to it. Good job. Commander Code-8 G'day, mate 02:51, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
  6. Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 03:25, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
  7. Nice work.—Jedi Kasra ("Indeed.") 05:07, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Object

We are Transforming this article into your first Good article nomination!
  • Hey, great to see you nominating an article! Here goes something.
  • The first word should be "a", "the" makes it sound like the reader should already know what it is
    • Done
  • Context is needed for the guy with the long name who sent the mercs. Same goes for the body
    • Added some info about him in the top, what do you mean by same goes for the body? Just some info about him in the body?
  • Context also for the Separatist Crisis and Ansion. When you do the crisis context be sure to say the Shui Mai was a major Seperatist leader.
    • Done, and left out Shu Mai being a major leader because far as I know at that time there was only an informal agreement between her and Dooku.
      • Something will still need to be said about her connection with the CIS, or otherwise it's unclear why she would want Ansion to secede. Also I can't see any context for Ansion, all that needs to be said is that its a planet Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 06:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
        • Added a bit more in the prelude, also added planet in the prelude, not sure how I missed that one:P
          • It still doesn't really say how she was connected to the Seps, if you just say that she wanted Ansion to join the CIS it should be fine. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 02:34, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
            • Took out the link to CIS, the novel doesn't directly connect this plan with the Cis, thinking about a better way to word it, but at the moment this ones got me stumped. For now changed it to say it was part of her plan to form a new government. Gonna have to get back to you on this one:P
              • Went through the book again, for now I left it as "This plan was part of a larger plot to form a new government. I'm not really sure what else to say about this, do you have any suggestions?
  • Date is needed in the body
    • Done
  • Context also for those treaties, just briefly say what they did
    • That was all I could find, they were only briefly mentioned
  • It'd be better to say who the four Jedi were in the prelude rather than not introducing them until the skirmish section.
    • Done
  • The word moment is used fairly close together in the skirmish section. Please fix this
    • How's that?
  • The word this doesn't really work in Wookieepedia articles excpt occasionally in Btss, so change that in the aftermath
    • Done
  • It's probably best if you just say Shui Mai and Mousul in the aftermath section rather than pipelinking, since it forces the reader to hover their mouse over the words. Shui Mai doesn't need to be linked there anyway and context will be needed for Mousul.
  • Context for Kyaktha and Bulgan
    • Added they were two mentally injured and clanless ansionians
  • Reading this it seems to me like not everything's there that could be, but someone who's read this book would need to help out twith that. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 10:55, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
    • Started flipping through the book to make sure I have everything, should finish that tomorrow night. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:12, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
      • Finished flipping through, didn't find much that wasn't already there. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:27, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
        • Thinking over this objection what I was meaning is that it needs to have more info added about everything, ie Soergg's motives for starting this skirmish aren't really stated, nor are his connections with Shui Mai. Try to think if there's any other stuff like this that could also be said.
          • added a bit to the prelude, should take care of it
  • Here's some more: It needs to be said that the skirmish happened in Cuipernam, which it currently doesn't
    • Fixed
      • Needs some context still, also should be in the infobox as a location, along with Ansion. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 02:34, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
        • Added Cuipernam to the infobox and a bit to the end of the prelude, want me to mention something about it being the capital as well?
  • Obi-Wan and Luminara could probably be listed as commanders if you say what their rank as Jedi was at the time, since they would be giving orders to their padawans.
    • Done, should I still list them under forces as well?
      • Forces sections don't normally say who exactly was there, more just what type of people they have, ie, a duel between Grievous and some jedi would list the strengths as one jedi knight and one cyborg general, so that section should just have two Jedi knights and two padawans in it. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 02:34, January 21, 2013 (UTC)
        • Something like this?
        • Yup, but you forgot to source it. Commander Code-8 G'day, mate 22:01, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
          • Done. Not sure how I missed that:P
  • Shui Mai needs to be linked and contextified in the intro. I've got stuff to do now but I'll write some more later. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 06:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
  • To give context to Ansion in the intro I reckon you should pipelink the Mission to Ansion to mission and then write "to the planet Ansion"
    • Should be fixed
  • Ogomoor and mercenary are linked in both the prelude and the skirmish section. Same happens with Anakin and Obi-Wan
    • Think I got all the double linked stuff
      • FYI I added a few more links.
  • Can't believe that I hadn't asked this earlier, but are any quotes availible?
  • Is there any info about what the Jedi did after the skirmish that could be put in the aftermath? Commander Code-8 G'day, mate 22:01, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
    • Couldn't find one that really fit the article. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:08, January 29, 2013 (UTC)
      • This was meant for the quote, wrong section:P and added a bit about them being in a marketplace while the attempt was made. Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:27, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
        • Sorry to be a pain in the neck about this, but I'm sure you could have some quotes in there, it doesn't have to be something that details the entire skirmish, it could be as simple as what someone says during the skirmish, or when Soergg orders his mercs to get the Jedi. Keep in mind this is coming from a big-time quote lover :) Commander Code-8 G'day, mate 21:15, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
  • Just letting you know I won't be reviewing again for a while, school just picked up down here and I'm much busier than expected. I'll probably do some more eventually. Commander Code-8 G'day, mate 21:15, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
The Storm Approacheth
  • There really should be a quote for every section. Since the info comes from a novel, it shouldn't be hard to find suitable ones for Prelude, the Skirmish, and Aftermath.
    • Should be good
      • Unlike image captions, quote captions should never be punctuated at the end. A couple of 'em have some periods that need to be blasted.
  • Since all of these mini-battles are themselves part of the Mission to Ansion, I think the infobox would be better off to list the Mission to Ansion in the "Conflict" field, bulleted beneath the Separatist Crisis, rather than in the "Concurrent" field.
  • The article consistently refers to characters by their first names --- I can't find a link to the policy (if one even exists), but last names should be used per, well, overwhelming precedent. :D
    • Not sure what to do for this one, if I add in last names each time it read a bit weird saying their full name every other sentence. Would you object to me changing some to Master Unduli or Padawan Offee or something like that?
      • Just their last names. "Skywalker and Kenobi did this, Unduli and Offee did that."
        • How does that look?
          • Good. However, there's still quite a bit of repetition in the article. Full names, and especially titles, really only need to be used the first time a character is mentioned. Since the Prelude section already mentions "Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi" and "Padawan Skywaler," the skirmish section doesn't need to say "Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi and his Padawan, Anakin Skywalker appeared." The reader's already been told who these characters are; you can just say "Kenobi and Skywalker appeared." The same goes for the full-name-drops of Luminara and Barriss in the same section, and the later mention of "Commerce Guild president Shu Mai." Menkooroo (talk) 09:45, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
            • How does it look now?
  • Since the infobox says that "many mercenaries" died, can you establish clearly in the "The skirmish" section that the mercenaries die? It only kind of implies it right now by saying that Anakin "cut through" them, but "They easily dealt with the first wave" is pretty vague and could use more all-around detail.
    • Hows that?
  • The prelude section needs some context on Cuipernam (the word "city" doesn't appear in the article at all). The skirmish section should also establish that the tavern is in Cuipernam.
    • Done
      • Still looking for that context on Cuipernam in the Prelude section. "City" still doesn't appear outside of the intro.
        • Oops, should be good now :P
  • Context is needed on the Alwari and why the Jedi are searching for them. The Unity of Community could use some context, too.
    • How does that look now? If if looks odd it's because im tired :P
      • Looks perfect, actually. Exactly what I was looking for.
  • There are some things that are first mentioned in the "Aftermath" section that seem like they should be established much earlier in the article: Soergg warning the mercenaries to take the Jedi seriously, and Anakin & Obi-Wan arriving two days early. Menkooroo (talk) 16:38, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
    • Added a bit about the arriving early in the intro, as for warning the mercenaries, how would you want me to word that, as that one line is the only time it is mentioned. Supreme Emperor (talk) 05:21, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
      • What's important to remember is that information shouldn't necessarily be presented in the same order that the novel presents it. It should be presented chronologically. When you mention that Ogomoor hires the mercenaries, also mention that he warns them.
        • Done
      • Also, any and all information in the intro needs to be repeated in the rest of the article. The intro is an abstract of the article and can't contain any unique information. So, adding something about them arriving early to just the intro doesn't satisfy this objection. Make sense?
        • Think it should be good now.
  • On that note --- I think the Prelude section could be cut down considerably. Most of it reads like a Prelude section for the Mission to Ansion article rather than for this article. Shu Mai's plan doesn't need to be described in such detail, and things like the Malarian Alliance and the Keitumite Mutual Military Treaty don't need to be mentioned. All of that background should be summarized much more concisely so that the Prelude can focus on setting up this specific skirmish rather than the Mission to Ansion as a whole.
    • Removed some stuff from the prelude, how does it look now?
  • Since "Galactic Republic" is listed as a combatant in the infobox, I think the article could get that fact across more clearly. Even something as simple as calling the Jedi Order "Republic-affiliated" or something. On that note, "Jedi Order" isn't mentioned or linked anywhere outside of the infobox. Menkooroo (talk) 12:22, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
    • Linked to Jedi Order in the intro and changed "Jedi Council dispatched" to "Jedi Order" dispatched in the prelude, also added "to convince them to stay within the republic" to the prelude. How does that look? Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:45, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • Something's not right about beginning "The skirmish" with the sentence "The skirmish began while..." It almost seems like a self-reference. Thus far, the article hasn't mentioned a skirmish --- the name of the article has, but the actual text of the article hasn't --- so when a sentence says "The skirmish began," it invokes a reaction like "What? What skirmish?" I think it would be better off ditching that qualifier and just describing the events as they happen.
    • How does it look now?
  • Do we know anything about the nature of the mercenaries' attack? What weapons they were using, how exactly they attacked, etc? The current sentences "It was at this point that they were attacked by the mercenaries hired by Ogomoor" and "The mercenaries acted more as a unit and began to push the Jedi back" are pretty vague. Menkooroo (talk) 09:45, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
    • Added how they appeared and that they wielded weapons ranging from blades to blasters. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:40, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
      • Good show. Let me go through the article again one more time later this weekend. Menkooroo (talk) 05:07, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
  • OK, here's my final go. Since this is a battle of the Separatist crisis, it should be added to {{Separatist Crisis}}, which should then be added to the bottom of this article. Alternatively, you could create a new template specifically for the various battles of the Mission to Ansion. Let me know which idea you like better, and if you need help with the templates, I'll be happy to help out. They can be confusing.
    • Could you help me make one specifically for the battles in the mission to ansion?
      • Done. It's been added to this article. What you should do now is create the articles for every skirmish/battle that's part of the Mission to Ansion so that they can be added to the template. I'm assuming that there are more to create --- you mentioned to someone you wanted to make one for the kidnapping; if this is the "first" skirmish in Cuipernam, I'm assuming there's a second; etc. Now that we have a template, best to create all of the articles now. Menkooroo (talk) 06:24, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
  • Templates confuse me, could you add in Kidnapping of Barriss Offee between first cuipernam and qulun camp, and second skirmish in cuipernam after borokii and januul? I can create pages for these tonight. Thanks
    • Done. The GAN rules state that there can't be any redlinks in templates, but I'm happy to support this nom trusting that you'll fill them in soon. The Kidnapping of Barriss Offee has been pipelinked to "Second Cuipernam," and the Second skirmish in Cuipernam has been pipelinked to "Third Cuipernam." It know it seems counterintuitive, but technically it's OK --- the second "skirmish" in Cuipernam is the third overall event in Cuipernam. The second is Barriss's kidnapping. Menkooroo (talk) 09:27, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
  • Much appreciated, I should be able to create them tonight.
  • There's some missing punctuation at the end of the article's leading quote. And I just want to confirm, is the double "more" correct? Does Soergg speak poor Basic?
    • Cav grabbed the missing punctuation, and the double more was incorrect :P Now sure how i missed that one.
  • Two other quotes are missing end punctuation, too. If this is because of my earlier objection, I meant that the quote attribution shouldn't be punctuated, not the quote itself.
    • Was for your previous objection, but Cav grabbed it for me.
  • Do you know if "Mission to Ansion" is a canonical title? It's currently called "the Mission to Ansion" in the intro; if it's not a canonical title, it should be de-capitalized and the "the" changed to an "a." If it's the canonical title, it's fine.
    • Believe Cav grabbed this for me too :P
  • Regardless of whether the title is canonical or not, I think it could use a bit of context in the intro --- maybe mention that it's being undertaken by four Jedi on behalf of the Republic? It would be useful context for why Anakin and Obi-Wan arrive, too.
    • Cav added diplomatic mission to the intro, I added it to the prelude too, how does it look?
      • The intro still doesn't indicate who's actually undertaking the mission --- even calling it a "diplomatic Jedi mission" or something would do the trick.
        • How does it look now?
  • Can you mention in the intro that the skirmish takes place in a tavern? I think this specific tavern could use its own article, too.
    • Was identified as an inn, changed to that and created an article. Perhaps it shall someday be seen on the ca nom page :P
  • "Ansion lay at the heart of several treaties, so by having Ansion secede from the Republic, thus forcing many other worlds to secede." The end of that sentence is grammatically off.
    • How does it look now?
  • The sentence beginning with "However, Bossban Soergg the Hutt," is pretty long-winded with a lot of commas. Can you break it up?
    • I broke it in two, does it look a bit better now or would you like me to break it up further?
  • Is there anything more you can say about the actual skirmish? Do the Jedi deflect any blaster bolts or anything?
    • Added a line about deflecting blaster shots.
  • Can you add the info from the quote used in "Aftermath" to the skirmish section?
    • Done
  • And finally: Do you think there's any chance that this skirmish might be mentioned in the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia? Maybe in Ogomoor's entry, or Cuipernam's? Menkooroo (talk) 15:02, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
    • I found nothing.
      • I found this offhand reference in Ogomoor's entry: "he was charged with overseeing the demise of the Jedi envoys dispatched to settle the border dispute on Ansion just prior to the Clone Wars. Despite his repeated efforts, the Jedi-Luminara Unduli, Barriss Offee, Anakin Skywalker, and ObiWan Kenobi-secured a treaty between the city dwellers and nomadic Alwari, and returned to the capital of Cuipernam." That "despite his repeated efforts" bit seems like an indirect mention of this skirmish and a few others. I've added the CSWE as a Source with an (Indirect mention only) tag; let me know what you think. Menkooroo (talk) 09:27, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
Cav
  • A note: You were missing the full stops on the end of most of your quotes. I've added them, but please be careful of this in the future.
    • Thanks for the help.
  • Ansion lay at the heart of several treaties, - what kind of treaties? With whom? What is so special about the treaties that other system would secede if Ansion did?
  • Why is ending the conflict between the Unity of Community and the Alwari important?
    • Added a bit at the end of the prelude.
      • Does the novel state why ending the conflict between the two would ensure Ansion's loyalty to the Republic? - Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 08:37, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
        • Did a bit of rewording, re-read the section of the novel regarding that and the agreement was to share lands, not end the conflict. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:11, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • An article for the tavern needs to be created and linked to.
    • Created and changed to inn, found a line in the novel that identifies it as an inn. Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:35, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
  • And the marketplace Offee was kidnapped in. - Sir Cavalier of OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 10:13, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
    • Done
Jangston
  • "A skirmish took place in 22 BBY in an inn in Cuipernam" Can you find a way to reduce the amount of "ins" here to make it less redundant?
  • More to come once Cav is finished with his review. JangFett (Talk) 14:39, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
Cadeth
  • "a member of Commerce Guild President Shu Mai's plot" - I think a better word here would be "participant in"
    • Changed
  • "Soergg had his majordomo, Ogomoor, hire mercenaries to stop the Jedi before they could leave Cuipernam, the capital city of Ansion, in search of the Alwari, nomadic tribes of Ansionians." That's a lot of commas. You can remove the ones around Ogomoor, and rework it to say "Ansion's capital city of Cuipernam", like I did in the intro.
    • The commas around "Ogomoor" are grammatically correct and need to stay, since Ogomoor is Soergg's only majordomo. Removing the commas says that Soergg has multiple majordomos. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:17, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
  • At the end of that paragraph, be sure to add a "then" to the very end of the sentence, because you framed it as a "If... then..." statement. (thank computer science class for that) I fixed it here just to demonstrate.
    • Thanks for grabbing that for me
  • "The Jedi easily dealt with the first wave, as the attackers were uncoordinated, deflecting several blaster shots and killing several mercenaries before fighting their way out of the tavern and into the street." Here, it kind of sounds like the attackers were the ones deflecting. Any way you can make it more clear who's deflecting the blaster shots? An easy way would be to drop the "as the attackers were uncoordinated" part and just add the uncoordinated adjective to "the first wave".
    • Reworded, how does it look now?
  • "brought to the attention of others" - other what? Participants in the plot?
  • Good work. Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 19:13, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Good article by AgriCorps 03:43, March 12, 2013 (UTC)


  • The first of many noms for Project Novels. Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:58, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
  • Please note I kinda forgot to sign my responses to CC-8's objections, all replies to them are from me:P Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:27, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
    • Most people don't sign when writing their objections like that, as long as you've signed on the last response, it's fine. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 06:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)
  • One more note, in the aftermath I state that Bulgan and Kyakhta were tasked with kidnapping one padawan. This is stated in the novel on page 57, though the Essential Readers companion states they were to kidnap both. Should I make a note of this in the bts or wait till I create an article on the kidnapping and note it there? Thanks, Supreme Emperor (talk) 03:52, January 14, 2013 (UTC)
    • I don't think it really needs mentioning in this article, since they're not that well involved in this skirmish, so yeah, probably just put it in the kidnapping article. Commander Code-8 To say hi, press 42 06:36, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

I'll work on the remaining objections tomorrow night, apologies for the delays. Supreme Emperor (talk) 04:04, February 28, 2013 (UTC)