Wookieepedia:Good article nominations/Aldhani dam

< Wookieepedia:Good article nominations
The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Good article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Aldhani dam

  • Nominated by: AxMech (talk) 23:43, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Another Andor GAN!
  • Date Archived: 15:00, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Final word count: 1208 words (153 introduction, 918 body, 137 behind the scenes)
  • Word count at nomination time: 692 words (79 introduction, 569 body, 44 behind the scenes)
  • WookieeProject (optional):

(0 ACs/0 Users/0 Total)

(Votes required: 3 AC vote(s) required to reach minimum. Additional 2 user or 1 AC votes required to pass.)

Support

Object

Thrawn
Macaroni
  • 18 BBY will need a source and can go in the infobox.
    • Added
  • The intro says that the festival is called the Eye of Aldhani, but the body says that was the name of the phenomenom and that the festival had a different name, which you've pipelinked.
    • Fixed both
  • The description section can't really fit three images right now, I'd suggest cutting it down to two.
    • Don't think they're too cramped, it looks fine to me.
  • Please implement the Oxford comma.
  • Ensure that your references are being placed after end punctuation.
  • Your second history paragraph can be split it in two. Even after that, however, three paragraphs isn't really enough for subsections for this article, so I'd suggest removing them. JediMasterMacaroni(Talk) 02:13, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
    • Fixed comma, refs and history paragraphAxMech (talk) 07:34, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
spookly
  • Two preliminaries: you'll be needing references for the full release dates of the episodes, similar to the way shuttle ferry ended up.
  • An article of this size can support a bit of an intro expansion.—spookywillowwtalk 03:42, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Intro can serve to be expanded for an article of this length, preferably with information from the description, as that is a sizable portion of this article in proportion.
  • "Announcement" mentions some of the aftermath of the incident; would be relevant to include that. IIRC that all of the outpost's staff had been replaced and were being interrogated, rather than it ending off where it does.
  • Would like you to perhaps give this a once-cover copy-edit yourself; seeing some simpler errors such as "imperial stormtroopers" decapitalized and other such formatting errors throughout.—spookywillowwtalk 01:58, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
  • I've been mulling over this objection for quite some time due to its possible effect, but after having discussed it with some other ACs, I think the article as a whole may be (overall) a bit under-detailed for something that is a pretty central aspect of some live-action episodes. Would like to see a pass made at it before expounding on specifics, but generally there is a decent amount of coverage of their preparations in the series (they had a model made, etc.) that seems like it could be more than is there now. Then onward, the heist itself could be given a bit more detail throughout for flow (to make it less brief). Then finally, the aftermath has some other stuff that's missing—mostly from Announcement, the ISB have a meeting about the garrison, and it's reported on Syril's holoscreen, then on radio waves that Rael listens to. The precedent for such is generally to match the level of detail presented in other SA location articles, more or less.—spookywillowwtalk 19:23, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
    • Noting that I've begun a rewrite but it will take a while due to being on vacations. Thanks for the adviceAxMech (talk) 20:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
    • I do agree entirely with Spooky's point, being one of the AC's she discussed it with. Multiple things that she mentioned haven't really been addressed even with the update that you just did. Here are some things that need to be added/addressed:
      • The date note for the establishment is inconsistent with the article itself, the article says c. 18 BBY vs the note saying a hard 18 BBY
      • The intro really needs to be expanded, you summarised 3 episodes within a couple sentences
      • The intro could use an establishing date for the set up of the dam
      • You should include Gorn doing his walk around the base in "The Axe Forgets", the two guards that keep sentry and he speaks with are notable enough for pages
      • The length of time Gorn was based there, we can date his arrival for starters based off his dialogue
      • There's a real lack of talking about the other Imperials who were stationed at the dam (I think this would be enough for some section of its own)
      • The commandant is mentioned several times before you actually name him
      • Ths history could use sectioning given there will be enough for it to be
      • Colonel Petigar needs to be mentioned earlier, he had a specific reason to be called to the dam, and shouldn't just be causally mentioned later during the later
      • You could include the conversation between Jayhold and his family, since it's currently only documented in a caption
      • You could include the stuff with the pelt with the Dhani chieftain, also the officer saying 'again' seems to mean they did it before at the last Eye which we can date the per dialogue
      • Unreferenced paragraph in history
      • The getaway freighter is notable for a page of its own
      • 'The team then proceeded to the hangar and after forcing Commandant Beehaz to open the vault had the Imperial troopers stationed there load eighty million credits to the Rono. Despite being discovered by troopers led by Corporal Kimzi and an ensuing firefight which cost the lives of Barcona and Gorn, the team was eventually able to board the freighter and escape via the tunnel, leaving the vault half empty and the base in disarray.' This is a run on and needs to be broken up. And is also really lacking in detail, you're covering half an episode or so within a couple sentences
      • The aftermath is really lacking I have to say, even if the dam isn't mentioned, there's a lot to be said about the aftermath about the Imperial response, the discussions about it by the rebel groups and Mon Mothma
        • I will have to object to some of these somewhat. I agreed with spooky that some expanding was in order, given the importance of the dam in Galactic history due to the heist, but I believe that some of your suggestions are extraneous info better suited for the heist page instead of the article about the location. Most of my concerns is in regards to specific incidents, like Gorn talking to the guards. Including this in the article would ruin the flow, and it adds absolutely nothing to the context of the dam being a military installation targeted by one of the first open attacks by the Alliance, except for "hey, at some point this rebel spy chatted with some people". Also the other Imperials stationed at the dam, Jayhold chatting with his family -those are, imo, things that aren't even suitable for the heist article itself but should be relegated to the episode plot description. I'm open to discussing why you think those are important, but right now I disagree with their inclusion.AxMech (talk) 07:19, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
          • Sorry for the delay in reply. As my initial comment did note, I did discuss this article's current state with several ACs and a few other established community members before making the first objection, who agreed this was quite underdetailed for what the review boards would expect of a major location setting of multiple live-action episodes. We do hear your disagreement, and brought this to the ACs as a whole again this week; however, it's still been agreed that this article is missing the following information. It's worth noting that the article nomination process seeks to make articles as complete as possible; while being overly wordy of course isn't optimal, we also include all information made available to us, especially historical details that can be dated (Gorn starting his service there in a certain year, years before, is an example). Anything and everything that canonically occurs can be concisely mentioned in some form, kept clean by only noting what people do and not going into play-by-play dialogue. That said, this article still is missing a significant amount of that information (some of which, but not all points, are listed above), and we do insist on its inclusion. I would also highly suggest checking the sources that were missing from the page for unique information.—spookywillowwtalk 02:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
      • Please check the image captions for punctuation, ones that are sentences need full stops
        • Fixed
      • Missing Oxford commas
      • Inconsistent capitalisation of commandant
        • According to this page, "Rank is only capitalized and abbreviated when it precedes a person’s name and becomes part of that person’s title."
          • You changed the instance that was being referred to in the objection as it wasn't before a name Lewisr (talk) 06:39, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
      • Please check for duplicate links
        • None detectedAxMech (talk) 11:15, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
          • There was at the time the objection was left for the record Lewisr (talk) 06:39, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
      • Please do a copy-edit for grammar and to ensure the page is following the manual of style, example: the way 'his family' is linked is not to the style
      • Since the dam was pictured in a source pre release, you should remove the 1stm in apps and the mention in the BTS
      • You need to document where the dam was identified by name, and then the alternate name
      • The instagram cite doesn't support 'late production stages' for the concept art
      • I think it would be worth checking Andor (television series)#Sources just to make sure the sources for the dam are all there, since I notice:
      • The episode guides are missing, such as ep 7's
      • Multiple StarWars YouTube videos are missing. At least 1 2 3 4 5 6 are missing, and there are undoubtedly more on the channel
      • Gorn's databank is missing a source. Would be worth just checking all the other relevant entries to be certain they are not missing Lewisr (talk) 00:52, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Vader327
The Eye of Enlightenment
  • (Review note) Here's my copy-edit, let me know if you have any issues with it.
    • Only issue was the "Aldhani's sector", which I changed
  • Have you checked the episodes' Audio Description? :P
    • Now I haveAxMech (talk) 20:21, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Duplicate links.
    • Fixed
  • Dating in the intro.
    • Added
  • "The facility was the site of a major attack by a group of early rebel saboteurs" — What do you mean by "early" rebel saboteurs? If that's referring to the early rebellion against the Empire, I'd remove that.
    • Removed
  • The Imperial Garrison (Aldhani) Databank entry doesn't identify the facility as the "Aldhani dam," so you'll have to correct the sourcing in the Description section's first sentence.
    • Fixed
  • "The site was built on top of a hill in the strategic valley of Akti Amaugh, next to the remains of the Nasma Brani temple as a dam, holding back the waters of the Nasma Klain river." — The valley itself was strategic or are you saying that the dam's location was strategic?
  • An article's body shouldn't link to disambig pages, so you'll have to remove the links to "river."
    • Removed
  • "Both the river and the surrounding valley had a great spiritual significance for the planet's natives, the Dhanis, as the Brani temple was the site of the important festival of the Mak-ani bray Dhani, the celebration of the celestial phenomenon known as the Eye of Aldhani." Do you really need to mention the festival's Dhani name? Also, the article's page establishes that the Eye was a celestial event, not an "important festival." (If a source doesn't say that the festival was "important," you should remove that word too.)
    • Added the link to the phenomenon mention instead of the festival
  • When you introduce the commandant's quarters, you mention his wife and son, linking to Jayhold Beehaz's family. As the Description section doesn't mention Beehaz (and it shouldn't), you'll have to reword that part and remove the relevant links.
    • Removed
  • The BtS should say that the damn was first pictured in a teaser trailer.
    • Added mention and relevant sourceAxMech (talk) 18:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
      • Release date for the trailer. Samonic Signatureicon (Talk) 18:53, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Seems like the Instagram references are broken. Samonic Signatureicon (Talk) 15:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Fixed as per Discord AxMech (talk) 12:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Marvac
  • Review note: Well done for working on many of these Andor articles and congratulations so far as the article is looking really good!!!Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • For the Structure template, please ensure that you fill in the "type" section with Dam.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I don't think it's necessary to say "The Aldhani dam, sometimes called "Aldhani's outpost, "...". I think it's better if you delete the "sometimes called "Aldhani's outpost"" part as you have already established this in your introduction.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I would rephrase "The site was built on top of a hill..." to "The site was built atop a hill...". I think that this will ensure that the article flows well.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Doesn't seem that bad to me, I think it's more formal that way
  • I think you should say that the dam housed the vault immediately after you say that the dam housed a hangar containing a Max-7 Rono freighter given that the hangar and the vault are right next to each other.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Proximity of location doesn't equal proximity in the article, though. The vault is important enough to warrant a separate paragraph.
  • "and were suitable for housing him and his wife and son."- I don't think this is necessary to write as the picture you have provided in the description clearly shows that the Commandant's family is living affluently. Also, you have already said that the base housed living quarters for the commandant and his family so there's no need to mention that the living quarters can house the commandant and his entire family as living quarters do house people. Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Living quarters for the commandant doesn't mean that they are enough for the whole family. Maybe they live off-site and they merely come to visit. Maybe the family is there for a special occasion in the picture. I think it's necessary to mention it
      • Here's the thing, living quarters are meant for housing people so there's no need to say that the living quarters is housing the commandant and his family. Also, I just checked, and it's been confirmed that the family do live on Aldhani as the Commandant says to his wife that she constantly wines about being on Aldhani and wants the commandant to get a transfer.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 14:04, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
        • Aldhani is the planet, not a city. The wife could definitely be living with the commandant on the dam and still want a transfer. AxMech (talk) 23:11, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
  • In your quote, you repeat "to" twice, "Vel Sartha narrates Akti Amaugh's history to to Cassian Andor". Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I think that you should add a full stop to the image caption "The dam was located on a hill in the Akti Amaugh valley" as this is a sentence. For more information, please see the Manual of Style--> Period section.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • It's a caption though
      • If image captions are full sentences, then you need to add a full stop but if the image caption isn't a full sentence, then a full stop isn't needed. For example, "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight" isn't a full sentence therefore doesn't require a full stop however "Luke Skywalker was a Jedi Knight" does need a full stop as it is a full sentence.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 14:04, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
        • Fixed
  • Please fix "Nasma KLain" to "Nasma Klain" with lower case l.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • "Following five months of preparations, former stormtrooper Taramyn Barcona and fellow rebels Arvel Skeen, Karis Nemik as well as mercenary Cassian Andor infiltrated the complex..."- I think this needs clarification as when reading, it seems as though to the reader that Cassian Andor and the rebel cell prepared for five months together rather than Cassian Andor joining the rebel cell late and preparing for, I believe 2-3 days for the heist at the dam.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I think you should mention the fact that Beehaz passed out during the heist.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Beehaz isn't that relevant to the article of the dam itself
  • I think you should also mention how Cinta Kaz split from the group and stayed with the hostages as it seems as though no one guarded the hostages.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • This seems like a details for the Aldhani heist article instead of a GAN (limited size) article about the dam
  • " they had the imperial troopers stationed there..."- I think you need to clarify that the imperial troopers stationed at the hangar were forced to load and unload the Aldhani's sectors payroll into the Max-7 Rono freighter.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Noting that this has been correctedAxMech (talk) 23:11, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
  • For the image caption in the Bts section, I think you should rephrase this from "Concept art of the Aldhani dam by Chester Carr" to "Concept art of the Aldhani dam was done by Chester Carr" (with full stop in image caption).Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Fixed
  • I think you should add the fact that Scotland is in the UK in this sentence "Scenes for the Aldhani dam were filmed at Cruachan Pumped Storage Hydro facility in Scotland" as Scotland is part of the UK.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • It's its own thing though, like if we mention that scenes were filmed in Normandy it's overdoing it to specify "in France"
  • Is it possible if you can add a quote in the Bts section?Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Please add context for who Chester Carr, Luke Hull and Tony Gilroy are. For example, "concept artist Chester Carr...".Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • (Review note)- If you are nominating an article with multiple images on the subject (I would say two or more images on the subjects), please make sure that you add a mediacat template in the article. Also please add this source, https://www.starwars.com/news/andor-episode-4-aldhani-highlights as there was an indirect mention of the Aldhani Dam. I know it can be a pain but whenever you nominate an article from a TV show/ video game in canon, it's best to check for all articles related to the TV show/ canon in Starwars.com and check if there's any mention of your intended subject.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 18:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • Fixed everything except for the objections I replied to, thanks for the detailed review! AxMech (talk) 18:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
      • Hi. A mediacat template still needs to be added and please add the source I mentioned in the Review note above.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 14:04, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
        • Added bothAxMech (talk) 21:01, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
          • Ok then (Just to let you know that the Review Note won't be striked as it acts as a tip).Marvacian Archivist (talk) 03:42, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Review Note: Congratulations so far. The article is starting to come together!
  • In your Bts section, the article mentions that "The Aldhani dam was first pictured in the teaser trailer for the 2022 Disney+ series Andor Andor Season One, released in May 26, 2022." Maybe you could add a link to the teaser trailer in the sentence? Marvacian Archivist (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Throughout the article, I have noticed that there are lots of long sentences such as this one "The local Dhanis were driven away from the sacred valley by Imperial forces and the temple located there was demolished, leaving behind only a small tri-arch structure[3] which was littered with debris and used for target practice by Imperial troopers." Please make sure to break up these long sentences to smaller ones.Marvacian Archivist (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
    • This one in particular caught my eye a few times already but there's no convenient breaking point. Fixed some others i could find.
  • Maybe add an index page. This isn't compulsory to do. If you don't do it, it won't in any way affect the nomination. Just a suggestion given the number of appearances and sources you have. Marvacian Archivist (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
    • Not enough appearances to note imo
  • Do you have a quote for the Bts section? If so then please add in the Bts section. Marvacian Archivist (talk) 16:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
    • None usable, all bts descriptions come from articles indirectly stating what production people said about development
  • I have noticed that there is a slight inconsistency with numbering. In some sentences you say "Following five months of preparations..." however later you say, "all of the dam's surviving personnel were interrogated by the Imperial Security Bureau, while 106 Dhanis participating in the festival were detained as part of the Imperial Emergency Act." Make sure that the numbering is consistent. If you want to write the numbers in words then make sure that this is done throughout the article. If you want to write numbers as numbers, make sure that this is consistent. The only exception to this are dates. Marvacian Archivist (talk) 16:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
    • I generally use words for numbers under 10 and numbers for more. "25 stormtroopers" tends to flow nicer than "twenty-five stormtroopers", while "nine Jedi" looks better than "9 Jedi"AxMech (talk) 10:06, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Is it possible if you could update the article with Andor: A Disney+ Day Special Look? Marvacian Archivist (talk) 16:37, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
    • Mostly repeats what the NatGeo article said about developmentAxMech (talk) 10:06, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
Anil
  • (Reviewing note) Per the Manual of Style, articles should use the serial comma.
  • (Reviewing note) Please avoid adding links to disambiguation pages, such as Temple and Imperial Sector, in the article body.
  • (Reviewing note) Again per the MoS, when pipelinking, all characters should be inside the link brackets. i.e. [[Aldhani's sector|sector's]] instead of [[Aldhani's sector|sector]]'s.
  • For references that are used multiple times, please use the full reference in its first usage. <ref name="The Axe Forgets AD">{{Andor|The Axe Forgets}} {{AD|Disney+}}</ref>, for example, should precede all instances of <ref name="The Axe Forgets AD" />.
  • I don't think pipelinking "rebel" to Alliance to Restore the Republic makes sense here since the Alliance doesn't exist at this point.
  • The first paragraph of the Description section has two consecutive uses of the same reference note. If the entire paragraph can be sourced to that one source, the first reference should be removed. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 02:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Comments

  • The dam is mentioned in Star Wars Insider 219, in the article "Galactic Britain II: Cassian's Travels", I don't really know if it has new info, but if you don't have access to the issue you can ask on the Wook server on discord if anyone has the relevant page, or you can dm me on discord and I can provide you with it Lewisr (talk) 01:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Vote to strike objections (AC only)

  1. ACvote For Vader's objections, have been addressed for just short of three weeks.—spookywillowwtalk 00:19, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
  2. ACvote Samonic Signatureicon (Talk) 20:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
  3. ACvote LucaRoR Sigil of House Serenno (Talk) 20:29, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Vote to remove nomination (AC only)

  1. ACvote Multiple objections from myself and Spooky that are 20+ days old overall. Also no response from the nominator in 12 days since the last message from Spooky Lewisr (talk) 14:58, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
  2. ACvote TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 14:59, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
  3. ACvote —spookywillowwtalk 15:00, 2 October 2023 (UTC)