Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Zygerrian/Legends (Redux review)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Reduxed Featured article. The result of the discussion was Featured article status kept. Please do not modify the page.

Zygerrian/Legends (Redux review)

  • Redux comments: Article was Reduxed per INQ 96.
  • Date added: October 23, 2018
  • Changes since last review: diff

(3 Inqs/1 Users/4 Total)

Support

  1. Inqvote Long is the way and hard, that out of Redux leads up to light. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:42, April 10, 2019 (UTC)
  2. Great work. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:28, April 10, 2019 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 13:32, April 23, 2019 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote 1358 (Talk) 21:41, April 23, 2019 (UTC)

Object

Imp
  • Duplicate linking. Imperators II(Talk) 23:22, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • Some overly long sections should be split into subsections, and longish paragraphs should be split into several smaller ones. Imperators II(Talk) 23:22, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
  • Formatting in "Development:" missing punctuation and spacing, Wizards.com articles should utilize quotes instead of italics. Imperators II(Talk) 23:22, November 1, 2018 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • Some preliminaries:
    • You can pretty much just use {{Shortstory}} for reference 49. I don't think the featurettes are italicized, are they?
      • Adjusted. No, I don't think they should be. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 13:08, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
        • Good, but notice the italics formatting in the title of all the TCW Blu-ray releases (found in their respective articles). Please format all instances as such in this article. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:38, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
          • It seems like {{Shortstory}} is hardcoded to display the entire book name in italics, no matter how you play around with the bformatted parameter. I wasn't able to format the title correctly using the template, so I had to get rid of it. I've adjusted some of the other titles in the sources list, as well. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:57, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
            • The template has now been adjusted to accommodate this, and I've added it in. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:16, March 1, 2019 (UTC)
    • In reference 56, this isn't going to work: "Galaxy at War, The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia and other sources spell the name of the species as 'Zygerrian.'" Either identify these "other sources" by name or reframe the reference note. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 05:53, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
  • In the Sources list...
    • CSWE needs to employ CSWECite for those entries
    • The TCW Episode Guides need to be titled correctly
      • Formatted according to the title of the web page. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:57, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
    • The Encyclopedia entry need to be formatted properly. "brezak" and "blixus" are not capitalized, for example. Go through and check all of them for accuracy. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:26, February 22, 2019 (UTC)
      • Only those two were lowercase. Adjusted accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:57, February 23, 2019 (UTC)
  • Images:
    • This has some pretty poor cropping going on since the original uploader apparently couldn't hold the comic straight in their scanner bed. For example, you can see the borders and white space on the left and bottom, and some of the text is still visible in the speech bubble. But more concerning for me is that you can see how crooked it is, probably because it wasn't laying flat while being scanned. I would strongly suggest uploading a new version if possible. Even if it's not as high resolution because you're getting it from a pdf or something, I'd still prefer straightness over size.
    • This isn't digital. It's a physical scan from the ALTA TPB. A digital version will be sharper though not as large resolution, which is still preferable. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:46, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • What planet? The only planet introduced thus far in the article was Kowak in the preceding section. "As such, a slave market thrived on the planet."
  • Who considered them this? "...they were still considered an advanced civilization."
    • I see you're adapting this from the intro quote, so I've amended the sentence to satisfy this objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:49, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • You're going to need to show me where GG9 says the following, because I don't see it in the book:
    • "Zygerrian society centered around the Zygerrian Slavers Guild"
      • It looks like you could/should actually source this to Star Wars: The Clone Wars 2, judging from the "Early history" quote, unless there's a more direct reference somewhere. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:34, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
        • Reworded. That was perhaps my own extrapolation based on the available info. No source states that outright, and the quote from The Clone Wars 2 must refer to the "Slave Empire," per evidence that I've now found in Friends Like These. See the response below. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
    • "Founded centuries before the Clone Wars" -- In fact, GG9 actually says the formerly secret Guild went public shortly after the Empire legalized slavery
      • Turns out, Friends Like These actually establishes the chronology and the relation between the Slave Empire and the Slavers Guild; a detail which I admittedly overlooked. Made adjustments according to that info and worked in the GG9 details. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • Have you used the exact punctuation from the Blu-rays for the TCW quotes?
  • Is it "Royal archivist" or "royal archivist"? The article isn't consistent. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:31, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
  • I want to confirm that all of this can actually be sourced to that episode: "...and the Zygerrians were feared in spaceports across the galaxy, earning fame for their history of violence, piracy, slavery, and war." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:49, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
    • This comes from Galaxy at War. Moved the ref note accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:22, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • Do the "Kidnapped" Blu-ray captions actually capitalize "Slaver Empire" in the "Allies of the Confederacy" quote (this goes back to the previous objection)? If so, I would suggest capitalizing all uses of that term in the article.
    • No, they don't. The term "Zygerrian Slave Empire" is always capitalized when used in its full form. Variations of it, like the "slaver empire" and "slave empire" are not capitalized in the subtitles. However, Friends Like These capitalizes "Zygerrian Empire." I've adjusted the usage of those terms in the article accordingly. I've also made an effort to disambiguate the mentions of the Galactic Empire and the Zygerrian Empire, as it was a bit confusing which Empire I was referring to in each particular case. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:40, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
  • Is the "Scientel's auction" quote supposed to say rich?
  • I feel like the article should introduce Molec here by his title; namely, he's the Zygerrian prime minister and Captain of the Guard. "The Queen's unwillingness to kill the Jedi prompted her aide Atai Molec to invite Dooku to Zygerria..."
  • The article is inconsistent on whether it's "Royal guard" or "Royal Guard"
    • Friends Like These, which is the most recent source, spells it fully lowercase. Adjusted accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • I don't have immediate access to Insider 89 to see what it says, but why do you write "essentially" here? I ask because GG9 says that this Decree does legalize slavery under certain conditions, not essentially. "...after the Imperial Decree A-SL-4557.607.232 essentially legalized slavery under certain conditions"
    • Insider 89 refers to a "qualified legalization of slavery under Decree...". I've removed the word "essentially."QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • Who considered them this? If the source doesn't literally use the term "considered," just say the statement outright: "...the Zygerrians were again considered the most infamous slave traders in the entire galaxy." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:13, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
    • The source is a POV report, so I've adjusted this accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:02, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
      • With that change, you need to go back and adjust that sentence for linking and name mention, as it now becomes the article's first mention of Screed and "Emperor." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:47, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
        • Adjusted in relation to the mention of Screed. The Emperor is already introduced in a previous sentence, so I don't think he requires further elaboration here. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:40, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
          • I mostly meant that you needed to update the link for "Emperor" to its new first mention, which I have now done. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:18, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
  • This sentence doesn't make sense. It's saying Nilo died twice, once during his first fight and then was killed by the droid. "However, Nilo did not survive his first fight and was killed by the prototype battle droid L8-L9 shortly thereafter."
  • I just want to confirm the punctuation in the Medica section, specifically that M'rch's line is all one sentence and the space after the ellipsis.
    • M'rch's line is split between two panels, with the speech bubble on the first panel ending with the ellipsis, and the other bubble also beginning with an ellipsis. I believe this makes it all one line. Removed the space after the ellipsis, though. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:13, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
      • To clarify, I was mostly concerned that the "Not yet, Scroon, wait..." part was all being treated as one sentence like that (since grammatically it's incorrectly punctuated). Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:47, March 5, 2019 (UTC)
  • This is typically a phrase that needs secondary referencing, as it's not usually stated outright. I'm guessing the TCW episode doesn't say this? "Zygerrians were also seen on the galactic capital of Coruscant." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 01:44, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • The article is inconsistent on whether it's Thanda Clan or Thanda clan
  • Reviewing note: I ended up just removing the "Friends date" reference, which I found unnecessary. Articles could use general date ranges like that for virtually anything, and readers can just understand simply that these events took place during the time of the Rebel Alliance. If they really want to see the years for the Rebellion's existence, which kind of become superfluous for this article's purposes, they can explore that article.
  • What is this unformatted dash in the Hextrophon section? Does it need mdash? Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 03:01, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry to have to lay this burden on you, but it's always been a mistake on Wookieepedia's part to not have a general article for the overall Star Wars: The Clone Wars multimedia project. Much like we have an article for the Clone Wars multimedia project, Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, and Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, TCW should also have one to cover all of its multimedia works in one place, since that information is simply too massive to be documented in the TV series article alone. I have therefore created a redlink for this in the BTS, which you will need to fill in. It's up to you how much effort you want to put into creating it, of course, as a simple stub satisfies this objection. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 06:04, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • None of this can really be sourced to the three episodes as is currently being done: "George Lucas, the creator of the Star Wars franchise, liked Gilroy's comic story enough to request that it be adapted as future episodes of the show. In 2011–2012, the Slaves of the Republic comics were adapted into three episodes of the television series, titled "Kidnapped," "Slaves of the Republic," and "Escape from Kadavo." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 06:33, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
    • Sourced to the Complete Season Four feature, which states this. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 12:22, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
  • What "sources" are these? This paragraph only cites the information to a single source. "According to sources published prior to the species' redesign..." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 07:30, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
    • Clarified. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:01, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
      • Good, but I think this phrase still needs its own reference. Can it be sourced to the Blu-ray extras? "...which were published prior to the species' redesign..." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:18, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
        • The extras only mention the comic series per se, so that part can be sourced directly to the extras. I've done some tweaking to this sentence regarding Galaxy at War. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:12, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
  • Infobox-exclusives:
    • Light skin
    • Black hair
    • Yellow and blue eyes. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 07:51, March 3, 2019 (UTC)
      • Worked those into the article. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:28, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
        • Can you explain for me your rationale for calling them light-skinned? Their SWE page, which is what you're sourcing this to, doesn't say this explicitly. Assuming their skin portion is what you see on their face and hands, that looks quite gray to me, and I'm not seeing any variation between any of those three pictures on that SWE page, so I'm not sure what your basis is for saying they were "generally light-skinned." Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:18, March 6, 2019 (UTC)
          • Queen Miraj, as well as Zygerrians depicted in Friends Like These look light-skinned to me. Perhaps, the Encyclopedia page wasn't the best choice for sourcing that part. Made some adjustments. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 10:14, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
            • Ok, but now that I'm seeing the totality of information here, along with reading what the SWE actually says, I don't agree with this statement: The Zygerrians' faces [...] were almost entirely covered with fur. The SWE doesn't say this, and if we're only going by what the image shows us, I would say very little of their face is actually covered with fur. Rather, it would appear that their face is bare-skinned, while their ears and the rest of their head is covered in fur. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:11, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
              • Please take another look. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:46, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
                • Better, though "while other individuals had comparatively lighter skin color." is still extrapolating. That statement is sourced to the Scintel SWE entry, which only shows her as having lighter skin. If there are indeed "other individuals" (plural), that needs to be referenced properly. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 21:52, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
                  • Hopefully addressed. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 19:41, March 17, 2019 (UTC)
                    • Ok, I think we need to reevaluate this whole thing, relating to their alleged fur-covered faces. I originally questioned this based on the image in the SWE Zygerrian entry, but this image makes it quite clear that there's supposed to be fur on their entire faces, even though that detail isn't so evident in other pictures. I think you need to go back to what you had originally, removing any mention of facial skin color and replacing the detail of them having fur-covered faces. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:33, March 18, 2019 (UTC)
                      • I do think that there's a certain amount of skin visible on their faces beneath all the hair, especially when you look at females. Tell me what you think of my current wording, and whether you still think that any mention of their facial skin color should be removed. This also concerns the skin on their hands, which I do think is skin and not hair. And sorry for dragging this for so long. I do intend to see this review through, but I have a very busy schedule right now. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:15, March 23, 2019 (UTC)
                        • The more I look at the images in the article and think about this, the more I think there is no correct answer here. Because I think the sources are inconsistent. I think you have some images where their faces clearly have fur on them (like this and this) and then others where it definitely looks like skin (like this). And then to complicate things, you have other images where it's not perfectly clear whether it's fur or skin (like this). And I'm not really sure what to say for their hands. Though I will say that it is my opinion that TCW is intending for all of their faces to be fur-covered. I think if you look really closely at the SWE infobox image and the Scintel image, you can see faint little lines in their faces, which I believe is intended to be fur texture rather than skin. Maybe the best thing to do here is treat the inconsistency as a variation in the species, that some have fur on their faces while others don't. But if you do decide to go that route, I think you need to treat all the TCW images as fur in your sourcing. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:31, March 23, 2019 (UTC)
                          • This is exactly what I'm going to do then. Zygerrians depicted in TCW media and Encyclopedia entries are going to be treated as having entirely fur-covered faces. Meanwhile, some individuals are noted as having some amount of visible skin (I'm sourcing this to Friends Like These, based on an image of this guy as well as the Gemen brothers, who are also similarly depicted with faces that show bare skin). I've removed any mention of skin color of their hands, since it's not entirely clear if its skin or hair. Now, this only leaves the case of Marko Tyne, who looks basically Human, due to him originating pre-TCW. I was thinking about describing his appearance in the "biology" section, but I decided against it. We don't know the IU cause of his unusual appearance; it could be genetic mutation or appearance-altering surgery. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 14:24, March 24, 2019 (UTC)
                            • Perfect. And yes, I don't think you need to mention Marko Tyne's appearance in the Biology, if for no other reason than that's effectively been superseded by TCW. It's almost like we just ignore it as being incorrect. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:31, March 25, 2019 (UTC)
            • You need to mention the green eye color in the infobox now. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 23:11, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
              • The green eye color is only mentioned in the cut content section of the Bts, as it refers to Miraj's depiction in the comic series. Since that information has been overridden by the TV series, which depicts her with yellow eyes, I don't think that this info belongs in the infobox. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:46, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
  • Ok, one more thing. I think you need to work in some discussion of their clothing at the end of the "Traditional equipment" section. Clothing styles are certainly reflective of a species' culture. Specific things that should probably be included here are:
    • Male and female styles. Pay attention to patterns between male and female clothing. For example, most of the males seem to wear this sleeveless turtleneck tunic thing with a breastplate and flaps (I don't know what you call those) that hang below their wastes. And the gold/gilded color theme seems to be a common thread between a lot of characters. From what I can see, at least two of the females (Scintel and the female in the SWE infobox image) wear these coil band things on their arms and/or their necks.
    • Note the styles that the royalty favors. For example, Scintel wears a lot of gilded adornments and that headpiece. As Prime Minister, Atai Molec seems to wear a particularly unique outfit. And Prince Sono Molec is certainly flamboyant with his purple-and-gold outfit and cape.
    • Notice the designs on the clothing. The female in the SWE infobox image has the same design on her torso tunic and armband. Are there any other Zygerrians in the TCW episodes who have this as well? Also, look at the characters running down Sono Molec's cape and waist flaps. There are similar designs on the palace walls in the TCW episodes (look at the background here). This is likely intended to be their alphabet or whatever, but even if we can't call it that explicitly, we can at least make note of it.
    • Plus anything else you can think of or notice, of course. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 00:31, March 25, 2019 (UTC)
      • Ok, I think I got everything of note, which actually resulted in a fairly large section. Also added a bit to the Bts, regarding their pre-retcon attire. Please take a look and tell me what you think. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 23:18, March 30, 2019 (UTC)
        • I really like what you've done with that section. I just reorganized some of the information a bit to present it in order of common male/female styles > royalty > traders. I can't think of anything else at this time, so I'm placing my vote in support of this article. Good work. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:42, April 10, 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm noticing enough additional issues of concern that I no longer feel comfortable supporting this article right now. I will detail what I'm seeing. Firstly, this particular HNN article cannot be used as a reference for this statement, as nothing within this news story mentions the Separatist Crisis at all: "By the time of the Separatist Crisis..." You're operating on the correct albeit unsupported premise that this article's events are related to the Separatist Crisis, which has become a very common point of probation for many status articles of late. You'll need to find another way to cite this information.
    • Changed it. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:30, April 19, 2019 (UTC)
      • Ok, good, but now you have thie exact same issue here: "By the time of the Separatist Crisis, the Zygerrian species had ties to the Merson pirates, who supplied them with slaves captured in their raids." You need to explain how these events are considered part of the Separatist Crisis, since this is not stated outright in these HNN articles (most of them, anyway). Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:36, April 20, 2019 (UTC)
  • In the "Allies of the Confederacy" section, you've got two consecutive "Kidnapped" references. I'm not sure if one of those is supposed to be a reference from another source or what. Though I would nonetheless like to confirm that this statement can truly be sourced to that episode: "At the onset of the war..."
  • Your discussion below with Tommy over that quote has actually made me notice quite a bit of missing information from the article. For this article to be comprehensive, it should rightfully mention and detail every named Zygerrian character, whether or not the information is in the main article body or relegated to the BTS in the TCW comic material. Right now I'm seeing the following characters not mentioned in this article: Omus Krill, Ikis, Slego, Teek, and Rajim Armin is only mentioned in the quote attribution. You should probably also mention the Zygerrian auctioneer if he has spoken dialogue, since he's actually a character in a prominently official position. Alternatively, I believe it's ok to not have to mention every unidentified Zygerrian character, of which there are several, as they are so minor and perhaps even of dubious worthiness for an article to begin with.
    • As a secondary matter to this issue, I question the legitimacy of using a Slego quote for that section. If that character's events are relegated to non-canon status due to being overridden by the episode content, that goes for quotes too. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 04:14, April 16, 2019 (UTC)
      • Mentioned the ones you listed. Regarding unidentified characters, I think those Zygerrians appearing offworld are deserving of a mention, while most (if not all) of the unidentified Zygerrian guards that are seen on Zygerria and that we have articles for should probably be eventually TC'd. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:46, April 19, 2019 (UTC)
        • I think any unidentified characters are perfectly fair game if you can naturally work them into the article and they are legitimately noteworthy of a mention. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be considered mandatory to mention every single unidentified character like it should be for named characters. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 22:36, April 20, 2019 (UTC)
Tommy
  • I feel like the quote for Organizations and titles would be better if it was concerning queenship, as opposed to just concerning a queen. Is there one of Miraj Scintel introducing herself or something?
    • I'm really struggling to find anything relevant here. There isn't really anything resembling an "introduction" in the episodes. I've found some dialogue that might work better than the current quote, but it originates from the original comic series, and involve a character (Slego) who is entirely absent from the on-screen adaptation. So that would require some additional context. The exchange in question is as follows:
"When we enter the Queen's presence, you will bow to Her Highness."
"I bow to no one."
"Then I will make you bow."
―Slego and Skywalker[src]
  • You use dates in the latter parts of the history section, but I think it would be beneficial to add some to the earlier bits where relevant.
    • Added a couple that I could think of. Other stuff like "thousands of years before the Clone Wars" is literally how the source spells it. It's impossible to pinpoint a more specific timeframe. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:56, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
      • For the HNN date ref, could you refer to the event you are dating? Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 20:29, April 20, 2019 (UTC)
        • Done. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 21:12, April 22, 2019 (UTC)
          • Okay so from what I can see you've now mentioned a random event not referenced in the article. I'll try and explain again. In the article you say "the Zygerrians, along with the Karazak Slavers Cooperative and the Thalassian slavers, had once again emerged as one of the leading slaver organizations in the galaxy," which occurred in 22 BBY. For the 22 BBY ref, I'd like to see you reference this event I have quoted. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 10:04, April 23, 2019 (UTC)
  • I think I little bit of context for the Jedi and their relationship to the republic/the clone wars would help, as that allows the reader to understand why Jedi are involved in CIS/Republic business.
  • Is the plural of Torguta Torguta or Togrutas? You use both in the article.
    • According to the Episode Guides, its "Togrutas." Adjusted accordingly. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:56, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
  • "lest the Keeper dropped the captured" Surely this would be "lest the Keeper drop the captured" as it is past conditional?
  • I think the image for Yularen should depict him as an Imperial, per the caption. The image currently shows his TCW appearance. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 14:01, April 13, 2019 (UTC)
    • Actually, given the small amount of images of him in the Imperial era we have, the current one should be fine. Tommy Imperial Emblem Macaroni 19:52, April 13, 2019 (UTC)
      • Exactly. The images we have of him are either during his Republic service, or him in ISB uniform, which does not fit the narrative of the respective section. The current image is the only available image of him set in Imperial era and wearing regular naval uniform. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 18:56, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
Anil

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