Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Seha Dorvald

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Seha Dorvald

• Nominated by: Darthchristian 21:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
• Nomination comments: According to Fourdot, this is over a thousand words....it better be. =P

(7 Inqs/0 Users/7 Total)

Support

1. Thefourdotelipsis 00:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
2. Cavalier One^{(Squadron channel)} 07:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
3. Could use a little more cleanup, but Tommy's objections seem to cover it. A little patience and this will see the light of the Main Page yet. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 05:08, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
4. Well done now. My host would applaud your abilities…posthumously.—Tommy9281 ^{(Peace is a lie)} 00:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
5. Imperialles 06:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
6. Graestan^(Talk) 21:04, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
7. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

1. "father's death at the hands of a Yuuzhan Vong insect." - Did it really have hands? :P You need to explain what's happening with Jacen in the intro. At the moment it's just she's working for him, and suddenly she's confessing, like working for Jacen's a bad thing. Of course it is, but you need to tell us that. ;) And reading on...yeah, he's suddenly Caedus. The first paragraph of the "Second Galactic Civil War" section has formality issues..."pretty" "cute" "dark time," things like that...just needs to be tightened a bit. A chronological problem comes from the fact that you tell us that Dorvald was spying for Jacen a while after the fact. This has to be reshuffled. Just as a suggestion, formality wise, you might want to use her surname, rather than her given one. Thefourdotelipsis 15:18, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
   • All of those are fixed, and I changed her first name to her surname throughout, as per your suggestion. Thanks for the review. Darthchristian 16:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
     • Per Ataru, the formality, "cute" etc, needs to be culled. Thefourdotelipsis 11:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
2. From the desk of Atarumaster88
   • It'd be good to mention her rescuing Katarn in the intro.
     • Fixed.
   • 1st two sentences of Early life read rather awkwardly. Read it aloud and see if you can come up with a better way to write that.
     • Fixed, though I needed to change the prose of the paragraph to do do.
   • Sorry, you can't call someone a pretty young woman. That's POV, and if we don't allow it for Mara, Jaina, Padme, and Jarael, it won't fly here.
     • I thought I might be able to get away with that because that's how Ben saw her to be, but fixed.
       • You could say that Dorvald was considered an attractive woman by Ben, but to explicitly say she was attractive is a no no. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 20:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
   • "Ben decided that Seha was cute and that he would have liked to stand and look at her for a couple of days. She apparently had mutual feelings, as evidenced by her nervousness around Ben during their conversation." This needs to be reworded and shortened; this type of information works much better in a P&T or relationships section than this. Per 4dot above.
     • Fixed.
       • Sorry, not yet. The tone is still too informal, and it could be worded much better than how it is. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 20:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
         • Better now?
   • The whole apprentice thing needs to be a lot clearer; she's said to be too old to become an apprentice, then lo and behold, she becomes an apprentice later.
     • I don't think she was an apprentice; I changed the wording to that she was a Jedi candidate, not an apprentice.
   • " and to leave the fight alive with everybody, regardless whether the mission was a success or failure." This could be clearer.
     • Its a bit clearer now.
   • You'll need an article for the mission/duel.
     • Forgot to add it. It's in there now.
   • "She was at first amazed by the skill the Jedi and Sith performed at" Reword this as well.
     • I'm having a hard time rewording this. Any suggestions?
       • Perhaps you could state that "She was initially impressed by the skill of the combatants as they dueled", or something along those lines.
         • Used the suggestion.
   • Explain the escape route more.
     • Legacy of the Force: Fury isn't clear on that, though I did the best I could with that.
       • At least tell me what type of hatch she blew through, where it was, and how she blew it up. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 20:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
         • No hatch type, but the latter 2 explained.
           • Check your explanation. You seem to have missed a word in there and I'm not sure what it is. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 19:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
             • Fixed it even further, and I'm pretty sure the explanation is as good as its going to get. DC 03:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
   • Did Seha lead them "through the undercity to safety"? It's not clear in the article.
     • She led them to a safehouse, which I forgot to mention in the article.
       • The confusion was due to a missing pronoun, but your comment gave me enough information to add it. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 20:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
         • So, is your objection fixed? Because there is nothing I can do to further improve that sentence. Darthchristian 03:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
   • Force push and Force pull are technically elements of telekinesis. Please adjust your P&A section appropriately.
     • Fixed.
   • Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 15:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
     • You too. Thank you for reviewing the article. Darthchristian 16:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
3. From the squadron briefing of Cavalier One
   • Intro - the word Candidate is capitalized here, but not later in the article. Can you check this and amend as necessary for consistency.
     • Mistake on my part. Decapitalized.
   • Why was Zekk Kyp's initial choice to accompany the infiltration team? A little context here is needed.
     • Context added.
   • Is there any information on how they were inserted onto Coruscant, or their initial reconnaissance of the target area? - Cavalier One^{(Squadron channel)} 12:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
     • Honestly, no. In Legacy of the Force: Fury, they're planning the mission, and then the Jedi are suddenly on Coruscant. I know its confusing, but since there's no info, I can't add anything on how they got to Coruscant without specualation. DC 03:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
       • I thought that was the case, but haven't read Fury in a while and wanted to be sure. - Cavalier One^{(Squadron channel)} 07:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
4. The Anvil:
   • No quotes besides the opener?
     • Most of the stuff she says or other people say about her are very long explanations, so no.
   • Eliminate the overlinking please.
     • Done. If any remain, please notfiy me.
       • Still exists. I'm not gonna tell you which ones either—fine-tooth the article and make sure you catch them all.
   • There are things in the article that have articles of their own, which you provide no links for. Example, Undercity.
     • I'm pretty sure they all do now.
       • Still see instances of items that aren't linked & should be.
   • That being said, when new topics are introduced, a brief explanation is necessary (eg. Undercity).
     • Done.
   • "Early Life" section. You say, "However, before they learned the war was over, Dorvald's father was killed by a sting of a Yuuzhan Vong insect, and she became an orphan." Do we know what kind of insect this was?
     • Nope.
   • Again about explaining newly introduced topics. "For a while, Dorvald lived near the World Brain, whom she was frightened of and described as a horrible creature." What is the World Brain, besides a "horrible creature" in Seha's eyes?
     • Explained.
       • Good job fixing that, but you use the term "creature" twice in the same sentence when referring to the World Brain. Please change to something else.
   • Again about linking to subjects. "Dorvald would meet the Jedi hero, Jacen Solo, when he took a journey into the undercity to meet the World Brain."
     • Whoops. Fixed.
   • Decide how you want to show the World Brain within the article. If you are going to capitalize it, then do so in every instance it is mentioned.
     • That was mistake on my part. Fixed.
   • Articles should never, except in unavoidable instances where things can get confusing, be written by referring to people by their first names. "Jacen" should always be "Solo," "Seha" should always be "Dorvald," and so forth.
     • Jacen changed to Solo. I believe I mention Seha as Dorvald through the entire article, per Fourdot's suggestion.
       • Still see instances of "Jacen".
         • Ah, I missed the Jacens in the intro. All are gone now.
   • What is the Amulet of Kalara?
     • Explained.
   • The Jedi Temple should be capitalized in every instance, whether using its full title, or just "Temple".
     • Done.
       • Still see instances of lower case "Temple".
         • Well, hopefully there shouldn't be now.
   • In the "Second Galactic Civil War" section, you have a link to the confrontation between Mara & Jacen, but it is wrong.
     • Fixed.
   • Same section. Who are the Galactic Alliance Guard?
     • Fixed.
   • Same section. You say, "When Jacen, who was now secretly Darth Caedus after he murdered Mara Jade Skywalker, ordered his troops to seize the Jedi Temple, she destroyed the computers so that Solo and the Galactic Alliance Guard wouldn't be to capture valuable information." This whole run-on needs to be at least reworded (possibly broken up), keeping in mind that this is an encyclopedia first, and should be devoid of contractions in articles.
     • In all honesty, I don't think there's anything wrong with the sentence. It's not a run-on, or anything of that sort.
       • May not be a run on, but it seems like a word is missing between "the Galactic Alliance Guard wouldn't be to capture valuable information." Also, the contractions need to still be eliminated.
   • Same section. You say, "When Grand Master Luke Skywalker gave Kyp Durron the responsibility of...". Who is Kyp Durron in relation to Luke? Some brief context please, should only require a certain title…
     • Gave him Jedi Master title.
   • Same section. You say, "Dorvald was joined on the mission with Jedi Master Kyle Katarn, Valin Horn, Thann Mithric and Kolir Hu'lya." Are they all Jedi Masters?
     • Nope. Fixed.
       • Then if they aren't all Masters, I would say, "Master Katarn, and Knights such & such…
   • Same section. You say, "Katarn tasked her to place a tracking device onto Caedus when things were at their most chaotic, and to leave the fight after she placed the tracking device on Caedus, regardless of the outcome of the other Jedi's duel with Caedus." Please reword so that you aren't constantly repeating your phrases.
     • Fixed.
       • You still say "placed the tracking device on Caedus" twice.
   • Same section. You say, "Dorvald was forced to watch the four Jedi confront Caedus in a duel." You go on to say, "Waiting patiently,..." If she was patiently waiting, Don't think she was forced if she was waiting patiently. Please reword.
     • Fixed.
       • Now, again, you talk about the duel with Caedus, but you provide no link to that specific article.
         • Undercity ambush is the duel title, I believe, which I already included.
   • Same section, next paragraph. You say, "Intimidated by the task she was given, Dorvald was forced to watch the four Jedi confront Caedus in a duel. Waiting patiently, she lifted the tracking device into the air towards the fight, waiting for the moment when the fight was at its most chaotic." Please reword the second sentence shown here, because you've already used that terminology.
     • Before, I had taken out chaotic.
   • Same section. You say, "While she did this, Caedus was able to kill Thann Mithric by decapitating him, finishing the duel." Decapitation is a specific move when used in a lightsaber duel. Please link to the appropriate article.
     • Done.
   • Second sentence in Powers & abilities needs to be reworded.
     • Reworded.
       • You have an instance in the P&A section where the character is referred to by her first name.
         • Whoops.
   • A long way from home, this article is. Much more work to be done, before it can ever grace the front page.—Tommy9281 ^{(Peace is a lie)} 21:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
     • Thanks for the review. DC 18:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
5. Toprawa:
   • This sentence is just bothering me. She couldn't have been orphaned by the death of "most" of her family if her father was still alive. She was only orphaned after the death of her father. This needs to be reworded to appropriately read as such: "she was orphaned during her childhood when most of her family was killed following the Yuuzhan Vong's invasion of the galactic capital, and the subsequent death of her father by a Yuuzhan Vong insect."
     • Fixed per your suggestion.
       • Well, all you really did is copy my change to the intro into the bio. Please reword the bio sentence just to mix it up a little bit. They shouldn't be identical. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
         • Changed it up a bit.
   • Your infobox has a much more specific date, which should be used in place of this: "Born before the onset of the Yuuzhan Vong War,"
     • I did a sort of merging with the date and that part of the sentence.
   • Her father needs some sort of article. If one exists, please link to it. If not, please create one and link to it.
     • Created and linked to.
   • You can't link anything to this insect? "a sting of a Yuuzhan Vong insect,"
     • I don't think so.
   • Some more context is needed for what this "transforming" entails exactly: "responsible for the transformation of Coruscant"
     • Context added.
   • This needs some kind of context as well. What does it look like? This sentence has little significance without a prior understanding: "Noticing her dislike of the World Brain, he told her that what it looked like had nothing to do with its nature."
     • Added.
   • You can't find any other quotes for any of these sections?
     • As I told Tommy, most of her quotes are large explanations, which wouldn't turn into good quotes here on the Wook.
   • A year for context, please: "By the time the Second Galactic Civil War had started,"
     • Done.
   • What is "an unknown passage"? This needs to be written better, with a better description: "by opening up an unknown passage out of it."
     • Ben doesn't give much of a description, he literally just blantantly states that.
   • That paragraph concerning Lumiya leaves me itching for more info. So what happened with this ruse? Did Dorvald ever discover that Lumiya had tricked her? What happened?
     • Fixed.
   • This clause just needs to be rewritten, please. It's very rough: "and to leave the fight afterward regardless of the outcome of the other Jedi's duel with Caedus."
     • Better now?
   • This is pretty vague. What kind of duel? "Dorvald was forced to watch the four Jedi confront Caedus in a duel"
     • Added that it was a lightsaber duel.
       • In that case, this "lightsaber duel" should link to a specific duel article. If one does not exist, please create a red link. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
         • Fixed.
           • Ok, that's not exactly what I meant. Please pipelink another article that covers this duel more specifically, not the lightsaber duel article itself. A red link will suffice here. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
             • Oh, I misunderstood you there. I already linked to that article earlier. Here's the sentencewhere the link is.- "When Grand Master Luke Skywalker, husband of the slain Mara Jade Skywalker, gave Jedi Master Kyp Durron the responsibility of planning a mission to kill or capture Caedus, Durron was forced to search for a Jedi with knowledge of the Coruscant Undercity." The word "mission" is linked to the duel article. I don't know if you would like for me to relink it at the word "duel" or what. Creating a redlink or another article would seem pointless to me.
   • Please rewrite: "She then created an escape route by blowing up a hatch that was a few stories below from they hid with explosives"
     • I see nothing wrong with the sentence. What's wrong with it?
       • After reading it the first time, I had no idea what you were trying to say. Apparently, you're missing a "where" in there. I've fixed it. Toprawa and Ralltiir 00:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
   • Likewise: "Dorvald lowered herself and Katarn through it, when the airborne escape which they had planned, seemed impossible."
     • Fixed, and likewise for the bottom objection.
       • Ok, did they plan this airborne escape before she blew the hatch? If so, that bit should be incorporated into this first sentence, not the second: "She then created an escape route by blowing up a hatch that was a few stories below from where they hid with explosives. Dorvald lowered herself and Katarn through the newfound path after a previously planned airborne escape seemed impossible."
         • Done.
   • What is "this"? More specific description, please: "While she did this," Toprawa and Ralltiir 04:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
     • I'll finish the rest of your objections later when I have the time to do so. Thanks for the review. DC 00:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
       • Not an objection, but a reminder after looking through your edits addressing these objections, always remember to place reference notes immediately following punctuation. There should be no spaces between. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
       • Also pay a closer eye to your linking. Be careful not to overlink, and remember when going in and making new edits to your nomination, that you must check to see if what you're linking has already been linked.
6. Grass clippings:
   • Please clean up first paragraph of "Early life," listing events in the order that they occur, rather than jumping around.
     • Done.
   • Some explanation for what a dhuryam and a yammosk are, in terms of function, would be nice in that section. Also, I'm not sure "dhuryam" needs to be italicized, particularly if "yammosk" is not.
     • Done, though the italics were a mistake on my part.. =P
   • "During this time, though, the Sith Lady Lumiya, disguised as Solo, tasked Dorvald with delivering a message from him to Ben Skywalker and to help him escape the Jedi Temple to find the Amulet of Kalara, a Sith artifact." – Please rewrite, focusing on who did what.
     • I had to rewrite that paragraph to do so, but done.
   • Some context for Vongforming is necessary, and could easily be remedied by tying the phrase and its meaning into the explanation of the dhuryam.
     • Yes, I did that.
   • Some explanation that Dorvald did not know Solo's true nature while she was being manipulated would be helpful.
     • Done.
   • I'd settle on calling it either the Undercity or the Underlevels, and not both, to avoid confusion.
     • Settled on Undercity.
   • Last sentence of the P&T is in run-on territory, and should probably be repunctuated or broken up.
     • Done.
   • A last bit of advice: Avoid overusing pronouns. I cleaned up a few sentences to avoid confusion of the subject and verb. I generally try to stagger pronouns, either every other mention, or two out of three mentions, paying close attention to the ease of understanding the events described. Graestan^(Talk) 03:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)