Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Rukh

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Rukh

  • Nominated by: — Hunter Kahn 18:26, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: For the treachery of the Empire against the Noghri people!

(0 Inqs/2 Users/2 Total)

Support

  1. Nice job. Thrawn had it coming...--ID-21 Dolphin DolphinJedi(Talk) 18:58, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
  2. It took skill, not Rukh, to write this article! Menkooroo 06:58, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Object

Jinzler
  • Are you sure that the "cut" templates in the BTS section are really necessary? I was under the impression that those templates were intended for use in IU sections of articles, to clarify that information is from a cut source. However, in this article, the cut information is in the BTS and you already state that it wasn't included in the published article, so there seems to be no need for the templates. --Jinzler 11:12, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
    • That particular info was actually added by This template was placed here to prevent the user's user page from clogging up Wanted Pages and/or to remove redlinks from talk pages and forums. If you are the user, please feel free to let your fellow Wookieepedians know a little more about you.. (I meant to acknowledge that and thank him on this FAN page, but forgot.) I've directed this question to him to see what he thinks, will get back to you... — Hunter Kahn 13:45, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think it could be used either way. We've used cut templates in Bts sections in the past (see: pretty much every Grand Admiral article). I think for this article it fits better in the Bts since we're able to explain the DESB connection freely. The template also automatically adds the article to the category "Articles with cut elements" although I suppose that could just be added manually. It's up to the nominator whether he wants to keep it, but there's nothing wrong with having it there right now. Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 15:16, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
      • Sorry to butt in --- but I think it would look fine if it didn't include "In the earlier draft" at the beginning. That way, it would be presented as IU content, like in all of the Grand Admiral articles, and the "cut content" template would make a bit more sense. Menkooroo 15:18, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
        • But it would still contain the DESB bit, which is OOU and necessary to the section. I was basing this more off of Betl Oxtroe's article than the Grand Admirals though. Like I said, if HK wants to remove the template that's totally fine, but make sure to add the category in place of it. The template is just more of a marker that says "hey, here is some stuff that was cut!" Xicer9Atgar(Combadge) 15:33, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
          • FWIW, I agree with Xicer9... — Hunter Kahn 22:40, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
Xd1358
  • Quick glances:
    • Only complete sentences in image captions should be punctuated. Therefore, the "The Thrawn campaign progresses" section's first image shouldn't have a period, should it?
      • You're right. Dropped the period.
    • Can you pipelink references 18, 19, and 20, like you do in the Appearances section?
      • Sorry, I feel a bit foolish, but what do you mean by pipelink? — Hunter Kahn 04:49, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
        • Pipelinking means that the appearance of the link is different that the destination, like [[Galactic Empire|Imperial]]. What I want you to do here is link those refs like they appear in the appearances section. 1358 (Talk) 05:48, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
          • Ahh, I believe I see what you mean. Better? — Hunter Kahn 02:28, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
    • More to come later. 1358 (Talk) 12:57, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't usually object to this, but there is severe underlinking at least in the introduction, and see what you can link. 1358 (Talk) 12:17, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
    • I've added several to the lead, as well as elsewhere in the article. — Hunter Kahn 17:00, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
      • I'm sure some links to various events/battles/missions can still be added in the intro. 1358 (Talk) 20:52, January 8, 2011 (UTC)
        • I don't mean to be difficult or dense, but I don't see anything like in there now that I'm missing. Can you provide me some specific examples? — Hunter Kahn 21:20, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
          • "…after his failure to capture Princess Leia Organa Solo, and Rukh unsuccessfully attempted to stop the…" At least two places; there can be more, please check. 1358 (Talk) 13:10, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
            • Unless I'm mistaken (and please correct me if I am), there are no links for those particular items. It doesn't appear to me any article are warranted for them either. — Hunter Kahn 23:09, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
              • Judging by this article, it looks like there should be articles for at least these two events. I'm not familiar with the source material, so I have no clue whether articles on the events exist. Do a little research and create them if you find nothing. 1358 (Talk) 17:47, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
                • Sorry for the delay (buying a house is a major pain the ass! lol). I have created the pages Rescue on Chimaera and Mission to Kashyyyk (Thrawn campaign) (both are just starters, I will improve them more in the future) and incorporated the links into this Rukh article. I believe this addresses your concerns but let me know if anything more is needed. Thanks! — Hunter Kahn 01:17, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
  • The lead quote captions needs to be modified a bit; they shouldn't be in past tense. Something like "Rukh, as he assassinates Thrawn" or "Rukh, after/before assassinating Thrawn" would be better. 1358 (Talk) 17:15, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
    • Done. — Hunter Kahn 19:45, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
Toprawa
  • I really dislike making image objections, but I feel like this one calls for it. Please upload new versions of the P/T and T/A images without the borders. It won't be hard for you to crop them out in some imaging program. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:24, January 12, 2011 (UTC)
    • I've cropped them, although in order to leave in the dialogue bubble for "Thrawn summoning Rukh", there is still a bit of the top border in that image. I think the dialogue bubble should remain, since it demonstrates precisely what the use of that image is trying to illustrate (the way Rukh hides in the shadows until Thrawn calls him) but if I didn't crop that one to your liking, let me know. — Hunter Kahn 23:09, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
      • I'm ok with them, but I think you could probably crop out the border in that one and still leave enough of the bubble so we can still read the text, similar to the way the P/T image's quote bubble is. Toprawa and Ralltiir 23:17, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
        • Is the new crop better? — Hunter Kahn 00:30, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
Moffship
  • This image does not depict Rukh as you claim; rather, it depicts Pellaeon. Please replace this image with something more relevant to Rukh. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 17:10, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
    • Wow. What a huge, stupid error on my part. Although I've got to say, Pellaeon's jaw looks more like a Noghri's than a Human's in that picture. lol. I'll take care of this tonight or tomorrow morning, when I can get in front of my computer with a scanner. — Hunter Kahn 19:45, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
Rukh of the Irish
  • As he was Thrawn's personal bodyguard, how do you feel about adding **Grand Admiral Thrawn to the affiliation part of the infobox beneath "Galactic Empire" ? Might be appropriate.
    • Done. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • In the intro, I feel like the Chimaera should be introduced earlier than it is. Rukh spends all of his time there, but the end of the second paragraph makes it seem like it's a unique place that he isn't usually at. Maybe at the end of the first paragraph? First paragraph is a little shorter than the other two, so there's an added bonus right there! :D
    • Done, let me know if that works. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
      • Works excellently!
  • Is he not mentioned in the Dark Force Rising sourcebook?
    • Believe it or not, I searched it and couldn't find a reference to him in it. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • Is Rukh definitely in every issue of the three comic adapatations of Zahn's novels? If not, you'll have to list the individual issues he's in. If you're not sure, definitely check them (and keep an eye out for "Mentioned only"'s).
    • My understanding is he is in every issue. I'll double check this later tonight though. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
      • Looks like he's in every issue. — Hunter Kahn 15:37, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
  • More to come! Sorry I can't finish this now; I'm on a really slow computer. Menkooroo 16:43, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
  • Do you think that "seized control" is the best wording for Thrawn becoming the Empire's leader? Makes it sound like a coup or a rebellion or something, but I think that Pellaeon was pretty happy to give it to him, wasn't he?
    • I changed it to "took control", but that might present the same problem. Let me know what you think, or feel free to change the wording yourself. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
      • "Took control" is perfect.
  • Just to clarify: Should that be "battle rifle" at the end Recruiting Joruus C'baoth's penultimate paragraph, or should it be blaster rifle? He's referenced as carrying a blaster rifle earlier, and I can't find any other mention of a "battle rifle" on this wiki.
    • Should be blaster rifle. Fiexed. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • I redlinked Myrkr smuggler base 'cause it's redlinked in Talon Karrde too. Three redlinks are OK, but just FYI.
    • No prob. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • Han was still a Captain in the New Republic at the time, so calling him a "New Republic ally" is technically incorrect. It's fair game for Lando, though. :D
    • Change. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • Another FYI: The links I've removed were redirect pages, which explicitly state that they shouldn't be linked to. Just in case you were wondering "Why'd he go and remove all those links, man?" Also take a look at the instance of where I reduced seven words in a pipelink to just one (about the Kashyyyk mission) --- less is generally considered better when it comes to pipelinking.
    • I'll keep all this in mind for the future. Thanks! — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • A lot of paragraphs begin with "Later," --- can you give it some variety?
    • I changed a few. Can do more if need be. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • Does Khabarakh's home village have a name or its own article? If not, it should get one, as it's a unique city where some of Dark Force Rising takes place.
    • I'll work on this tonight. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
      • I added "the Kihm'bar area of the Clean Lands" to describe his village. In the book I've only found it described as "a small village near the edge of the Clean Land", but looking at the Clean Lands site it seems the villages/locations are broken down by clan names, which makes sense, so I think this addresses it? — Hunter Kahn 15:37, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
  • Was Ir'khaim also on the Chimaera when he argued with Rukh? Can this be specified? Something like "who was also in their presence..." after "This offended Ir'khaim" would do the trick.
    • Done. — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • Almost done! Menkooroo 09:44, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the review! — Hunter Kahn 14:53, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
  • A quick one: In Assassinating Thrawn and death, the leading sentence of the third paragraph says the same thing as the concluding sentence of the second. Is the repetition necessary?
    • Dropped most of the last sentence in the second paragraph. — Hunter Kahn 15:37, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
  • When it comes to the origin of character names, we can really only note it if the author has confirmed it, if there are undeniable similarities between the character and the namesake (even then, we need to watch our wording), or if a VIP has speculated on it. The notes about the bird of prey and the Warhammer dwarf are really just speculation and have gotta go.
    • I thought the wording was OK here because I don't actually say Rukh was named after these things or claim this was the origin of the name, but rather pointed out that he shared the name with these things. But I've removed it anyway. — Hunter Kahn 15:37, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
      • It's a delicate balance to try to maintain --- if the article isn't going to claim that the character is named after something but is going to nevertheless point out something with the same name, then the question of relevance comes into play. It's really only relevant if there's some sort of obvious connection that the article can point out, such as in Solanus or Droma. You might be able to get away with the mythological bird of prey, but it'd be tricky. The Warhammer character is definitely not relevant, though. Anyway, excellent job! Time to support. Menkooroo 06:55, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
  • That's all! Well-done, and a nice nostalgic trip through Zahn's trilogy for me. :) Menkooroo 12:31, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
Jujiggum
  • "Starting before his birth, Honoghr was being ravaged by an ecological…" Tense check, please.
    • Better? — Hunter Kahn 04:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
  • The first paragraph of the Bio doesn't really sit right with me. I know that the background info must be given, but after the first sentence and a half, there's no mention of Rukh whatsoever. And then in the second paragraph you skip to the fact that he was a Death Commando, without giving further info on the timeline of his birth. I know that very little info on his birth is known, so what I would suggest going through the first paragraph and rephrasing it to say more specifically that "by year X BBY such-and-such had happened" and just do your best to relate it all more directly to Rukh for the reader.
    • I made some changes, but I'm not sure if it fully satisfies what you're looking for here. If not, any more specific guidance you can give on further changes would be appreciated. — Hunter Kahn 04:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
  • "Serving the lord of a Noghri Overclan…" What's a "Noghri Overclan?"
    • This was the language used by the source, but it's not entirely clear to me, so I changed the wording to remove the phrase. — Hunter Kahn 04:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
      • Hmm, the fact that the source uses this suggests to me that it's an actual, legitimate title used by the Noghri, and thus deserves an article. I would suggest keeping "Noghri Overclan" in and just giving it whatever tidbit of context you can work out. If you can really glean nothing from the source, then don't worry about the context; but either way it sounds legitimate and thus deserves a mention and an article. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:31, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
        • I wanted to check in with you about this again before I made the article. The Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook makes two references to "Noghri Overclan", with both words capitalized: One, of Rukh, says "Personally serving the lord of the Noghri Overclan is an incredibly prestigious honor for a clan warrior." The second is used in the context of Rukh becoming angry with Akh'laht for smack-talking Thrawn, and it states "To hear a Noghri Honor Guard actually defame the name and honor of the lord of the Noghri Overclan was unthinkable, a crime punishable by immediate death." I've searched all three of the Thrawn Trilogy books and only "Dark Force Rising" makes reference to an "overclan", which is lower-cased; there is no "Noghri Overclan" reference. The four in DFR are as follows: 1) the maitrakh says to Leia, "Now we serve one overclan only." 2) Maitrakh asks Leia, "Do you offer us aid for our own sakes? Or merely to wrest our service from the Empire to your overclan?" 3) Thrawn accuses Khabarakh of lying and says, "What is the Noghri penalty for lying to the overlord of your overclan?" and 4) The maitrakh saying "A Noghri accused of treason to the overclan must be given over to the clan dynasts for the ancient rules of discovery and judgment." It seems to mean the overall peoples that the Noghri as a species are indebted to (in this case, the Empire), but I'm afraid it might be speculative for me to draw that conclusion. Based on all this, do you think it warrants an article? And if so, should it be Noghri Overclan or just Overclan? — Hunter Kahn 04:06, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
          • Okay, here's the way I understand it from the information there: The "Noghri Overclan" is a sort of Noghri organization about which we know basically nothing, other than that it seems to be something like a government/organization by which all (or almost all) Noghri abide. The uses of "overclan" in the later four mentions indicate that the Noghri live in hierarchically structured tribes/organizations that they call overclans, and that since they don't know better, they refer to the rest of the galaxy's governments/organizations as overclans, too. In this case, however, I'd suggest just making the "Noghri Overclan" article, because the latter is somewhat speculative: it's still possible that the only overclan is the Noghri Overclan itself, and the decapitalization of "overclan" might just be a mistake/accidental inconsistency. As for what to put in the article itself: I'd just say that it was an organization that ruled Noghri life, and then mention the consequences for treason to a Noghri's "overclan" and stuff like that. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 18:28, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
            • I've gone ahead and made the page. — Hunter Kahn 04:42, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
  • "The position gave Rukh arguably the highest status of all the Noghri serving in the Empire." "Arguably" means that we're speculating here. Does the source say that he had the highest status of any Noghri in the Empire? If not, is there enough information in the source to say that he had one of the highest statuses of any Noghri serving the Empire?
    • The source certainly support use of the "one of the" phrase, so I put that in. — Hunter Kahn 04:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
  • "Thrawn trusted Rukh so much that he would discuss sensitive and confidential information in the Noghri's company." This sounds like P&T info to me; no reason it needs to be in the bio
    • I have to disagree. I think it's important to establish within the biography that, during this point in Rukh's life, he has a high enough status that he is privy to sensitive and confidential information as a trusted agent of Thrawn. — Hunter Kahn 04:00, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
      • That's fine, but then you need to say that from a biography viewpoint instead of a personality viewpoint: i.e. say something like "He gained a high status and was privy to important Imperial information" as opposed to "Thrawn trusted him so much that he would discuss sensitive and confidential information in the Noghri's company". This is because the former clearly establishes that he was of a high status and privy to important Imperial information, while the latter instead just shows that he gained Thrawn's trust; in other words the former focuses on the sheer event in his life, while the latter focuses on the feeling/sentiments of beings surrounding the event. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 01:31, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
        • Ah, I see what you mean. Good point. I've reworded this a bit, heavily borrowing from the language you suggest here. — Hunter Kahn 04:06, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
  • I'll continue with "Recruiting Joruus C'baoth" as soon as possible. As a note: I'm seeing a number of redirects and tiny grammar mistakes in the article; they're minor enough that I'm fixing them as I go in my copy-edit, but it would be great if you could take a careful look-through to weed out as many as possible before I get to them. :P Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 03:32, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
    • Wow, my apologies for completely forgetting about this. If I ever take a week or more to get to objections, definitely feel free to leave me a message on my talk page reminding me to get my act together. :P Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 18:28, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
      • Now it's my turn to apologize. :) Sorry it took me so long to respond to you here; things have been crazy hectic in real life, and I sort of let things get away from me. I think I've addressed your last outstanding item, and I'll respond to any future comments you have much more quickly. — Hunter Kahn 04:42, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
  • I noticed something weird about the sourcing. In the "Recruiting Joruus C'baoth" section, I noticed that you used <ref name="Heir">''[[Heir to the Empire]]''</ref> despite having already used that ref tag in the infobox. Please note that that ref tag should go in the infobox because the very first usage of the tag in the article gets the full name; and every mention after that, be it later in the infobox or in the prose, should just use <ref name="Heir" />. I haven't checked for others, but please go through the article and make sure that all of your refs are formatted appropriately.
    • Yeah, for some reason, I had thought that you weren't supposed to use the <ref></ref> tags in the infobox. I've fixed all of these now (I think). — Hunter Kahn 21:44, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • Linky for C'baoth's guard? (At least the individual who fired the arrow and possibly even the organization?)
    • I'm not sure there was a specific organization identified by name or anything, but I guess I can try to figure out a conjectural-title article name and make an article. The individual, likewise, is not identified by name or anything, but I guess I could do something like "Unidentified C'boath guard" and make that article to. Will try to do this ASAP. — Hunter Kahn 21:44, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • Plenty of info in the Recruiting section that belongs solely in the P&T.
    • I will work on this, but an specific examples you could provide would be appreciated. — Hunter Kahn 21:44, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • Again, be very careful of your grammar, specifically your usage of "this," which is a present-tense term. Also, the linking has started to get a bit sporadic. Please go through the article and make sure that both your gramamar and your linking is clean.
    • Have not done this yet, but will do so ASAP. — Hunter Kahn 21:44, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
  • I'll continue with "The Thrawn campaign" section. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:02, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
Eyrezer

The infobox has hair color as "None", while several iamges show Rukh with hair. Can you please explain this discrepency in the BTS? --Eyrezer 10:40, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

  • I'm very sorry to have to do this, but I will have to withdraw this nomination for now. I have a lot of things going on in my real life right now and I don't have the time to dedicate to this. I fully intend to come back when I have more time, incorporate the suggestions that have been identified above, and finish what I started in bringing this to FA. For now, though, very sorry about this! — Hunter Kahn 17:11, May 1, 2011 (UTC)