- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.
Royal Award Ceremony
- Nominated by: LelalMekha (talk) 16:43, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: Just a bit of celebratuion in this brutish world.
(0 Inqs/2 Users/2 Total)
Support
- Medals? They should have gotten their own planets for that. Corellian Premier
All along the watchtower 00:37, October 1, 2012 (UTC) - Classic stuff. Plagueis327 (talk) 02:03, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
Object
There must be some kind of way out of here
- But you and I, we've been through that , and this is not our fate. So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late. --LelalMekha (talk) 17:11, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Heh. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 17:45, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Not sure this was the answer you were expecting. --LelalMekha (talk) 00:26, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
- Heh. Corellian Premier
- But you and I, we've been through that , and this is not our fate. So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late. --LelalMekha (talk) 17:11, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
Still needs updated for Star Wars: Empire at War. And while you're at it, I would verify that it is not in Rebel Assault or Star Wars: X-wing.Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 16:46, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- I don't really know what you expect me to do with the "Empire at War" appearance, though. Do you mean I should mention it in the BtS as happening after a "Death Star battle" around any planet in the game? (I do not own the two other games, but I'll try and contact someone who has them.) --LelalMekha (talk) 17:11, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, the Rebel ending is the official canon ending, but obviously it is goes sideways from the movie. So a mention in the BTS would probably be the best idea. And about the second point, sounds good. Corellian Premier
All along the watchtower 17:45, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- The BTS mention has been added. Peradventure... You don't happen to own either Rebel Assault or Star Wars: X-Wing, do you? --LelalMekha (talk) 00:26, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
- Unhappily, no, I do not own those items. Corellian PremierAll along the watchtower 00:37, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
- Unhappily, no, I do not own those items. Corellian Premier
- The BTS mention has been added. Peradventure... You don't happen to own either Rebel Assault or Star Wars: X-Wing, do you? --LelalMekha (talk) 00:26, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, the Rebel ending is the official canon ending, but obviously it is goes sideways from the movie. So a mention in the BTS would probably be the best idea. And about the second point, sounds good. Corellian Premier
- I don't really know what you expect me to do with the "Empire at War" appearance, though. Do you mean I should mention it in the BtS as happening after a "Death Star battle" around any planet in the game? (I do not own the two other games, but I'll try and contact someone who has them.) --LelalMekha (talk) 17:11, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
Pop goes the culture
- I know that this ceremony has (Picture only) appearances in a few old West End Games sourcebooks. No new info, but fodder for the "Sources" section. I'll dig through them over the next few days and see what I can find.
- Good, I'll try and search myself, but it may take time since I'll be getting back to the university quite soon. --LelalMekha (talk) 17:36, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry for the delay on this one. I've finished Round 1, as it were, of an Appearance/source check. Looking at the current "Sources" section, I can tell you that it's woefully incomplete. All of the major events from the movies have been mentioned in a ton of sources over the past three decades --- see here and here for some examples. Out of the only fact files I have, I found mentions of the ceremony in two entries, but I can tell you with certainty that it's mentioned in a whole lot more. Ditto Insider; there's no way that only two Insider articles have ever mentioned this thing. The Star Wars Customizable Card Game no doubt mentions, or even just pictures, the ceremony on a few of its cards; you should look through the cards from the Premiere, A New Hope, and Special Edition sets and see what you can find.
I don't want to discourage you, as I love your ambition with this project, but completing the "Sources" section for major film characters and events is often the most grueling, time-consuming, and difficult part of an attempt to FA them and should not be taken lightly. A lot of research is still necessary for this one to be complete; I'll help out as much as I can, but you'll need to get down and dirty and go on a big hunt to see what you can find on your own. You never know when you might find new information. So, yeah, you have a very big task ahead of you. Hopefully the starting points I've given you will be a good help. Feel free to ask around the community for more assistance.
The only new information I found during "Round 1" was, from The Essential Guide to Characters: Jan Dodonna knew that many of those in attendance were cheering for him, too. The Star Wars Radio Drama also presents an alternative version of the ceremony, complete with dialogue from all of the major players. It's probably worth detailing in "Behind the scenes." You can find the radio drama on youtube, and the ceremony is in Episode 13, "Force and counterforce." Menkooroo (talk) 15:17, October 14, 2012 (UTC)- I guess you're quite right indeed. I got carried away with excitement, but I guess this nom should be postponed indefinitely. I couldn't possibly satisfy your objection within the two weeks. --LelalMekha (talk) 16:34, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
- No worries at all. I'm happy to strike the objection and move it to the comments section. Even if you do want to archive the nom and take some time to do the hunt, don't say "indefinitely" --- we could get this done within a month or two. :D Menkooroo (talk) 06:45, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
- I did listen the radio drama, and I added a little bit to the article based on this. However, I don't see how it's an alternative version, since the ceremony is simply the music here. Ther's only a little conversation between the Heroes just prior to that. Do you really think it's worth a BTS? The conversation between LUke, Han and Chewie can be described just fine in a sentence or two, methinks. --LelalMekha (talk) 14:00, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
- The film presents a ceremony with no dialogue, so it's probably worth including a quick note in the BTS that the radio drama features some dialogue. How's the source hunt going? Need me to check anything? Menkooroo (talk) 12:13, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
- There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here. I may mention the dialogue that happens before the ceremony if you like, but the ceremony itself does not feature any—unless there are two Star Wars radio dramas and we didn't listen to the same. I'm still browsing through the sources I own, but the fact is that I don't necessarily know where to search, since that celebration could be mentioned virtually anywhere.--LelalMekha (talk) 18:43, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
- Dialogue? Sure there is! Han says "Look at all these Rebels," "Chewie! Eyes front," and a couple of other things; Leia gives them a speech beginning with "Welcome, on behalf of the Rebel Alliance..." and things like "General Dodonna, the medals, please..." And then she recognizes both Han and Luke by name as she places medals on their shoulders. Luke comments on how R2-D2 is repaired, etc, etc. There's quite a bit of dialogue.
As for the sources... A good tactic is to go through the "Sources" lists of some other major characters/events from the film, particularly old West End Games sourcebooks that are dedicated to the original trilogy. Any that you don't have, feel free to ask for help. Again, this will be no easy task, and there's no telling what kind of new information you'll find. With that said, I would recommend withdrawing the nomination until you can be sure that the article is complete. I'd love to help you complete the "Sources" section and help get this article to FA status one day soon, but with the "Sources" section as incomplete as it is, I don't think that day is today. It's your decision, but keep in mind that right now, the "Sources" section still has a long way to go. Menkooroo (talk) 08:24, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
- Dialogue? Sure there is! Han says "Look at all these Rebels," "Chewie! Eyes front," and a couple of other things; Leia gives them a speech beginning with "Welcome, on behalf of the Rebel Alliance..." and things like "General Dodonna, the medals, please..." And then she recognizes both Han and Luke by name as she places medals on their shoulders. Luke comments on how R2-D2 is repaired, etc, etc. There's quite a bit of dialogue.
- There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here. I may mention the dialogue that happens before the ceremony if you like, but the ceremony itself does not feature any—unless there are two Star Wars radio dramas and we didn't listen to the same. I'm still browsing through the sources I own, but the fact is that I don't necessarily know where to search, since that celebration could be mentioned virtually anywhere.--LelalMekha (talk) 18:43, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
- The film presents a ceremony with no dialogue, so it's probably worth including a quick note in the BTS that the radio drama features some dialogue. How's the source hunt going? Need me to check anything? Menkooroo (talk) 12:13, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
- I did listen the radio drama, and I added a little bit to the article based on this. However, I don't see how it's an alternative version, since the ceremony is simply the music here. Ther's only a little conversation between the Heroes just prior to that. Do you really think it's worth a BTS? The conversation between LUke, Han and Chewie can be described just fine in a sentence or two, methinks. --LelalMekha (talk) 14:00, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
- No worries at all. I'm happy to strike the objection and move it to the comments section. Even if you do want to archive the nom and take some time to do the hunt, don't say "indefinitely" --- we could get this done within a month or two. :D Menkooroo (talk) 06:45, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
- I guess you're quite right indeed. I got carried away with excitement, but I guess this nom should be postponed indefinitely. I couldn't possibly satisfy your objection within the two weeks. --LelalMekha (talk) 16:34, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry for the delay on this one. I've finished Round 1, as it were, of an Appearance/source check. Looking at the current "Sources" section, I can tell you that it's woefully incomplete. All of the major events from the movies have been mentioned in a ton of sources over the past three decades --- see here and here for some examples. Out of the only fact files I have, I found mentions of the ceremony in two entries, but I can tell you with certainty that it's mentioned in a whole lot more. Ditto Insider; there's no way that only two Insider articles have ever mentioned this thing. The Star Wars Customizable Card Game no doubt mentions, or even just pictures, the ceremony on a few of its cards; you should look through the cards from the Premiere, A New Hope, and Special Edition sets and see what you can find.
- Good, I'll try and search myself, but it may take time since I'll be getting back to the university quite soon. --LelalMekha (talk) 17:36, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
An idea for the "Behind the scenes" section: This ceremony is a pretty iconic moment that's been parodied in pop culture. Both Family Guy and Undergrads have used closed off an episode with a recreation of the ceremony. That kind of pop culture influence might be worth a BTS mention --- what do you think? I can give you the details (and potentially find you the relevant clips).Menkooroo (talk) 17:29, October 6, 2012 (UTC)- Must confess my pop culture is not always, well, not always "up to date". See, I just discovered Undergrads when you mentioned it. I'll try and work something out, but it would be great help if you could provide the clips. ;) --LelalMekha (talk) 17:36, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Great! Skip to 20:15 here to see the Undergrads one in high quality. Here's the basic premise of the ceremony: Three of the characters (all Star Wars fans) are playing the video game Quake against a group of Star Trek fans. Just as they're about to lose, some other characters come to their rescue Han Solo style (and one of them even says "You're all clear, kid, now let's blow this thing and go home"). They hold the award ceremony afterward. You could probably source it to... this page. The episode is called "New Friends."
- In the Family Guy episode, Peter Griffin is given the award ceremony after saving a bartender from a fire in the bar. It uses the musical score from the scene in A New Hope and includes appearances by Chewbacca and the droids. According to the episode's Wikipedia article, Lucasfilm permitted the reproduction of the characters, music and sounds. It's sourced to the episode's DVD commentary. Menkooroo (talk) 17:59, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
- There we are, dear. I even added an extra pop culture reference none of us would expect. (I suspect the citation format for the Familly Guy episode isn't right, but I couldn't determinate which template I should use.) --LelalMekha (talk) 19:09, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Must confess my pop culture is not always, well, not always "up to date". See, I just discovered Undergrads when you mentioned it. I'll try and work something out, but it would be great help if you could provide the clips. ;) --LelalMekha (talk) 17:36, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
Comments
- Evram Lajaie's CSWE also pictures him standing during this ceremony. Should that count as a (Picture only)? Also, is this ceremony also pictured and/or mentioned in other entries besides just its own and the one I mentioned? If so, then the CSWE citation needs to be expanded. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:33, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- If I understand your comment correctly, you suggest all the specific entries of CSWE being listed? If it is what you meant, then I'm willing to search for those other entries, but I do not know how it would work practically ; should I have a "sublist" of CSWE entries within the "sources" section? --LelalMekha (talk) 08:25, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Dyer is an example of how to do it. Evram Lajaie and any possible others where this event is pictured but not explicitly mentioned, I don't know if they should be separately included as picture only, or just included with everything else. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 23:12, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- It would help if we could get the opinion of others on the matter, though. --LelalMekha (talk) 14:43, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Another possibility is just to write The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (sans the template) in source list, and only to use that template when giving citations. I find that easier for any article that is mentioned more than once in that source. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 15:16, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Fine. I'll do this, and if anyone actually objects against it, I shall have to go home, rethink my life and change it again. --LelalMekha (talk) 15:23, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- It shouldn't be an objection, and other users I know also use that method of citing that source. Hopefully I'll give this article a full review when I have the time, I'm amazed at such a major event being FANed. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 04:19, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
- Fine. I'll do this, and if anyone actually objects against it, I shall have to go home, rethink my life and change it again. --LelalMekha (talk) 15:23, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Another possibility is just to write The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia (sans the template) in source list, and only to use that template when giving citations. I find that easier for any article that is mentioned more than once in that source. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 15:16, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- It would help if we could get the opinion of others on the matter, though. --LelalMekha (talk) 14:43, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
- Dyer is an example of how to do it. Evram Lajaie and any possible others where this event is pictured but not explicitly mentioned, I don't know if they should be separately included as picture only, or just included with everything else. Hanzo Hasashi (talk) 23:12, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- If I understand your comment correctly, you suggest all the specific entries of CSWE being listed? If it is what you meant, then I'm willing to search for those other entries, but I do not know how it would work practically ; should I have a "sublist" of CSWE entries within the "sources" section? --LelalMekha (talk) 08:25, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Nomination closed as failed following consensus reached on Wookieepedia:IRC on December 13 and 14, 2012, from the following Inquisitors: Menkooroo, Cal Jedi, Ifindyourlackoffaithdisturbing, Toprawa and Ralltiir, Darth Culator, and JangFett. Reasons: A month-old objection regarding the radio drama and an incomplete source list. Menkooroo (talk) 05:44, December 14, 2012 (UTC)