Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Natasi Daala

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.

Natasi Daala

(0 Inqs/5 User/5 Total)

Support

  1. After all, I did work on it. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 13:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. Harrar 15:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. Janeway 12:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
  4. I still think this article needs more work, but Ataru seems to have covered the rest. DC 03:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
  5. DarthBlurrr(I Am the Chosen One) 12:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. The First Wave of Objections from Darthchristian
    • Before I state my objections, let me extend some thanks to you. You've done a great job on the article, Mitth'raw'nuruodo, expanding and fixing numerous problems with the article but there are still some things to expand and fix.
    • First off, the first sentence in the the intro is a horrible way to start it off. State where she's from, that she's a human female, then give the fluff of the article. Change it to, "Natasi Daala, a Human female from the Renatasia system, was an Imperial admiral, and later in her life, the Galactic Alliance Chief of State. The only female to ever reach the rank of admiral in the Imperial Navy, she enlisted in the Imperial Navy on Carida, but was discriminated against due to her sex." Continue from that, and fix up the sentence if you feel you need to.
    • You give no mention of her son and grandson in the intro as well, which is vital information.
    • In the second sentence of the third paragraph in the intro, make a link for command, linking to Supreme Commander.
    • Make swearing in the intro past tense.
    • There's a source? tag in the first sentence of the bio.
    • In the first sentence of the second section, state, "Due to her talents,".
    • Expand on her appearance in Death Star. She's given a lot of information in that book, and she has only a few sentences about it in her article. Trust me, you can get of alot of information about her in that book.
    • Link to 11 ABY and to Han, Chewie, and Kyp.
    • You give no mention that she was going to keep Han and Chewie prisoners, and that she was going to execite Kyp.
    • Oh, please, please expand the Return to the Maw section. You give a paragraph for the last book of the Jedi Academy Series, which is just pathetic. She's one of the main antagonists in that book.
      • Done. Keep in mind her part in the last part of the trilogy was slim at best.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 02:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
        • I'm going to look into that book later. For now, I'm not striking the objection. Darthchristian 03:05, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Expand LOTF greatly, and merge the last two sections in "Second Galactic Civil War," and start it off with, "Daala eventually returned from hiding at the request of her former, Pellaeon...."
    • Also, you're not supposed to vote for the article you nommed anymore, so I guess strike that vote. These objections may be harsh, but this article really is not even close to FA quality at this point. Daala has a lot of potential, so I really want to see her article completely fleshed out. Fix those objections, and I'll come back for more. Darthchristian 00:26, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
  2. The Praetorite objections
    • Maybe change the second "female" in the first sentence of the intro to "woman" to avoid the repetition?
    • My main problem with this article is that there seems to be a lack of over-arching continuity in it:
      • Commander Kratas should be mentioned early on, way before his death.
      • All the information given in Revelation needs to be incorporated into earlier areas of the article as it essentially explains what goes on post Scylla-battle.
        • She tells Pellaeon to contact her via the Darakaer message when she vanishes
        • She remains in contact with Boba Fett, and calls upon him at Fondor.
        • She gets back together with Liegeus, who's killed, she loses an eye and vows revenge against the Moffs
        • At some point after the Battle of Bastion she gains control of the Chimaera
        • She does planets favours during the Yuuzhan Vong War (her own words), accrues a fleet and mounts some of the ships with Metal-Crystal Phase Shifters—tech taken from the Maw when she memory dumps all its information.
      • There is also a large lack of context about the Yuuzhan Vong War and the Second Galactic Civil War.
      • I'm aware my objections are perhaps a little vague and require you to sift through Revelation, but as Darthchristian said this has a long way to go, and I'm not trying to be difficult. Basically, at the moment the sectioning is basically by appearance, with information chunked together as it has been received—probably because she's sat dormant for so long. Major respects for getting her off the shelf. Harrar 12:41, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
        • Expanded. Please give more critique if you feel it's needed. Chack Jadson (Talk) 19:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
        • It's a good expansion, but I feel that the article is lacking a section between Later life and Second Galactic Civil War, or just an extension of the Later life section, in which you order the above information chronologically. I.e. Keeping in touch with Boba Fett, the Darakaer code, the Maw Irregular, her actions during the Yuuzhan Vong War. This would give the article better internal continuity in my opinion. What do you think? Harrar 18:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
          • Well, my first inclination would be to disagree, since we have no idea (or at least to my knowledge) of when these things specifically happened (with exception to her role during the Yuuzhan Vong War), such as her giving the Darakaer code to Pellaeon, nor are there any specific details on these things (such as her forming the Maw Irregualr fleet). Once again, I have not read the LotF series, but I'm sure that there are no particulars (at least in dates) to these things, so that it would be impossible for us to say within the article when these things happened. So, at least in this case, over-arching continuity seems to be unlikely, or at least very difficult, to be established.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 00:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
            • It'd be tough because we really don't have any dates, and I tried to add context in the expansion to make it flow. I'll tinker with it and try your suggestion. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
              • Harrar: I made that change, and I personally think it's good. Keeps the flow going. Good suggestion. Chack Jadson (Talk) 10:56, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
                • That's brilliant—exactly what it needed in my opinion. Nicely done. I'll wholeheartedly strike Harrar 15:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
        • I am afraid I personally can do little to address your LOTF related objections, as I have not read the series, but I hope that one of my fellow project members can do so.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 13:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
          • Having written a few FAs and being a member of this project, I can add this info. Chack Jadson (Talk) 18:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
  3. BtS could do with some work. Add info about her characterization/development, what sort of role she played, how her promotion in Invincible was controversial, etc. Also, some of the BtS is inaccurate: "aside from a brief mention which stated she was believed to be dead in the New Essential Chronology, disappeared from canon for 10 years." Aside from implying that it's now post-2011, it's wrong; she was mentioned many times in NJO. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 12:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
  4. Can you describe the events that occured at the end of Champions of the Force, that her crew still had confidence in Daala, the losses she had obtained, etc.? It shouldn't be much to write, its just the status of Daala and the Gorgon after the battle.
    • Done.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 19:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Most of what I was going to address was picked up by other users, so that's all I have for now. Expect to see a list of grammatic issues later this week, as that's the last thing I believe this article needs before becoming a FA. Once all of my objections that are unaddressed are fixed, and the other users' objections have been have fixed, then you might find this article to be a lot more improved. Darthchristian 15:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
  5. Well, I'm not sure but where is Daala mentioned at the Battle of Shedu Maad? I've finished Invincible today but I can't remember any mention of her name. Janeway 11:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Oh, what about her appearence in The Princess Leia Diaries? Shouldn't that be added? Janeway 11:27, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
    • It doesn't say she was in the battle, it just says that afterwards she was made Chief of State.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 15:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Daala and the Maw Irregular Fleet later took part in such crucial final battles of the war as the Battle of Roche and the Battle of Shedu Maad. I think that tells its own tale, doesn't it? Janeway 18:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
      • It was linked twice, hence the confusion. I didn't find any mention of her in the battle's article, so I removed the mention altogether. I hope that helps.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 18:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
      • As to your other (what I am assuming is) objection, I cannot find any mention of Daala anywhere in relation to Leia's youth nor could I find how she could even fit in with the plot. I'll continue my search (I have not read the comic), although I urge you to keep an open mind, since she may not have a part in it at all, though who knows?--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 18:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
        • If you can't find any mention, there won't be any important stuff. Besides it's a great article. Janeway 12:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
  1. From the desk of Atarumaster88
    • "Daala had no real strategy, and intended only to cause as much damage as possible with her" That's contradictory; her strategy was to inflict maximum damage. Reword. (intro)
    • Somewhere, her flagship deserves a mention in the intro.
    • Rather poor linking to battle articles in the intro.
    • "although the details of the affair are muddy. Presumably, following the end of the relationship" Remove this. It's speculative, and should be reworded somehow to allow for flow without making assumptions.
      • Fixed. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
        • Better, but I believe it stated in Planet of Twilight that she left him out of a sense of duty or something like that. Flesh this out some more. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 13:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
    • "Tarkin contacted her via holocam" Is that supposed to be holocomm?
    • No context given on Undauntable.
    • 3rd para of Command of Maw needs some help. A quick glance shows a rather short syntax and present tense.
    • In the 4th para, clarify whether Fortressa was a freighter or battleship.
    • Rather unimpressive prose in those next two paragraphs. Particularly, combine the injury treatment and battle paragraphs from Death Star and try and make those sentences less choppy.
    • There needs to be a new section between the Death Star and Jedi Search segments.
    • A mention of Divini's use of Daala's name as a guise during the escape of the Death Star would be good.
      • I put it in, but I think it's a bit out of place. Thoughts? If you think it belongs, I'll keep it. Chack Jadson (Talk) 11:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
    • More background on Daala's decision to attack Mon Calamari desired.
    • Expand and clean up the Battle of Mon Calamari paragraph. It doesn't read well and it's lacking in detail.
    • "Decimating" means to reduce by a tenth. Since we can't know specific fractions in most cases, please refrain from using this word whenever possible.
    • "Daala realized it was just a distraction, and that Durron had already ignited the stars in the nebula with the Sun Crusher, and ordered all ships to immediately jump into hyperspace." Run-on; clear it up somehow please.
    • More context on prototype Death Star.
    • Kill the quote in prose in final Maw Installation battle.
    • Check your "the"s in reference to ship names. Is it Basilisk or "the Basilisk"? Etc.
    • More detail on the conference needed (with warlords).
    • More detail on the sizable strike she ordered and on the buildup that preceded it.
    • I believe some of her vessels struck Khomm in retaliation for the Jedi infiltration. This should be mentioned.
    • Context on Galactic Voyager
    • Link to Battle of Yavin IV with Daala and Cronus.
    • The correct term is "gas giant". Please correct this throughout the article.
    • Link to battle over Nam Chorios.
    • More detail on her battle against Bel Iblis, specifically the CC-7700 bit.
    • "with a variety of deadly starship weapons designed by the Maw scientists themselves. During the devastating Yuuzhan Vong War, in which extra-galactic aliens waged war on the galaxy," Some POVishness here.
    • "Her fleet, the , jumped out of hyperspace, surprising Caedus." What is missing here?
    • I dislike your frequent use of "this qualifier". Remove as many of these as possible from the prose. Quotes use the quote template; otherwise, they should be removed. Indicating facetiousness with quotation marks should be used as a last resort in formal writing. (Unless Gonk, Grae, Tope, or someone else more knowledgeable in English grammar can point me to a source saying otherwise).
    • Her willingness to flaunt regulations should be listed in P&T.
    • She could use a relationships section, as there is no equivalent mention in P&T.
    • "She always had a tendency to disappear enigmatically from continuity, only to reappear at an unexpected time." This sentence in BtS will need to be sourced, or else it is original research.
    • "All of Daala's Star Destroyers (Basilisk, Gorgon, Hydra, and Manticore) are named after mythical beasts,[4] perhaps implying that they are sister ships of the famous Chimaera.[15]" I don't see how this is pertinent to Daala herself. To the Maw fleet, certainly. Moreover, it appears to be speculation anyway and must die.
    • How that infobox picture was chosen is beyond me, but there's no way that is the highest quality image of Daala available.
    • More detail on her encounter with Callista and the Battle of Yavin would be good.
    • I would personally combine Return to Maw and Private war.
    • You have a spelling error, I believe, in Daala's resignation quote. If it's not a typo, it needs to have a [sic] in it.
    • Check your sources to make sure they are ordered chronologically.
    • She's given an appearance in The Princess Leia Diaries. Information from this will need to be included if it is not a "Mentioned Only". Ditto with Rebellion.
    • Reword "Daala was okay" That's far too informal.
    • "Daala later showed Tarkin a video she had gotten from the" Change "had gotten".
    • "Extremely secure facility" could be reworded to be a little less POVish.
    • 2GCW section needs fleshed out, with some longer sentences.
      • I'm not quite sure what's wrong with it. Could you check it out? Chack Jadson (Talk) 11:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
    • "Now though, it made Daala a force to be reckoned with" Flowery prose.
    • "Pellaeon, a man whom Daala had really liked," Informal.
    • "In exchange for her letting bygones be bygones" Informal tone.
    • Her inaugural address and what she said needs a mention in Bio.
    • More detail needed from Planet of Twilight. One paragraph is far too little.
      • I split it into two paragraphs. :P Seriously though, she doesn't do much in that novel. If you still think more is needed, I will go over it again. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Need to mention her order for the attack on Khomm.
    • "What she found there, however, was total chaos." Flowery prose.
    • More details on Solo's interrogation.
    • Detail what was worked on at the Maw, along with maybe some of its key personnel.
    • "Though she made a valiant attempt to suppress the Sun Crusher with sheer numbers" POV in valiant.
    • More motivation on the decision to attack Mon Calamari.
    • "However, Tarkin took her on as his, using his influence to" As his what? Personal aide? Military advisor? Mistress?
    • Give some context on the location of her battle with Bel Iblis.
    • "She was stable, but wounded, and brought immediately to the battlestation." Reword.
    • "Only Daala and Pellaeon survived, utilizing gas mask-like membranes." Clarify.
    • "Sending Pellaeon and a group of Imperial Star Destroyers to Yavin IV for an attack on the Jedi Praxeum." Fragment.
    • BtS could use fleshed out more. I'm really thinking it could use more information—search at least for interviews with KJA or LotF authors, as well as possible commentaries by SW VIPs on Daala.
    • " with hopes that would day armies and navies would be unneeded, as war would no longer exist." Wording?
    • "She was remarkably charismatic" POV (P&T). That whole sentence needs reworded.
    • "Daala blamed herself for getting him involved in the warlord feuding," Reword the last bit.
    • I'm not trying to torture you for the sack of torturing you on this nom, but I really think the P&T needs a paragraph from her LotF entries.
    • I'm with Ackbar on the size of this article. I'm thinking this needs at least another 5-10 KB of content for a thorough FA. Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 18:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
      • I'll finish this if it kills me Ataru. It is going to continue to take me some time though; some of these objections are substantial, and I've got some things preventing me from doing this. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
  2. It should probably mention Lady Tarkin or the fact that Tarkin was married in there somewhere (perhaps in the "Relationships" section). This is mentioned in both her and Tarkin's NEGTC entries. -- Ozzel 05:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • I'm no Daala expert -- I haven't read any KJA novels -- but I would have expected this article to be way longer than the 42 KB -- the same length as Sagoro Autem and Jareal, two far more minor character FAs. Ysanne Isard, a similar sort of character (I think) who probably does a fair bit less than Daala, is 92 KBs. That's what I would expect Daala's article to look like, and it doesn't look like FA-class detail at the minute. But as I said, I'm no expert. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 23:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Ysanne Isard is much bigger and is featured in many novels and comics, where as Daala is only in a couple and for the most part conducts military campaigns, not political insurrections, assassinations, etc. It isn't a very good idea to compare Daala to Isard.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 17:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Okay, perhaps that was a bad comparison -- I did say I wasn't too familiar with Daala. I figured since Daala played a character-who-has-stuff-done-but-doesn't-do-much-herself who features in eight novels, and Isard is a similar type of character who features in 5 novels, a short story, and a comic arc, they might be similar. But even if my comparison is wrong, you cannot tell me that Daala's article should be only a tad longer than Czulkang Lah's and Morag's, and a fair bit less than Zuckuss's and Evir Derricote's. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
        • I will admit that it may be lacking in some areas (Death Star and LotF series), but we have project members (I hope) working on these aspects of Daala's article, as this point has already been brought up. But that doesn't mean that the whole article is undetailed. But this is simply because I have not read material covering these parts, and I trust that it will be taken care of by the rest of Project Ambition.--Mitth'raw'nuruodo(Imperial HoloNet)Imperial Emblem 17:45, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Serious shame in using that awful NEC one for main image and not using "Daala, you are such a pain!" Then again, it works if we want everyone to hate this character. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 14:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Should we change the word suspect to suspicious in the following phrase: "...but due to her gender and suspect manner of promotion this was often ignored?"-- DarthBlurrr(I Am the Chosen One) 13:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Inquisitorius vote to remove nom

  1. Inqvote I'm the only one doing anything to this, and right now, I just don't have the time. I'll nominate it again sometime pretty soon, but right now, this needs to go. Chack Jadson (Talk) 00:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote Chack was indeed the only person working on this thing. If he's giving it up, that's good enough for me. Toprawa and Ralltiir 20:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Graestan(Talk) 22:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote - Cavalier One(Squadron channel) 11:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)