Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Mara Jade Skywalker (redux review)

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Reduxed Featured article. The result of the discussion was Featured article status lost. Please do not modify the page.

Mara Jade Skywalker (redux review)

  • Redux comments: sent to Redux per INQ Meeting 42. Several outstanding issues including the use of first names throughout, common use of the present-tense "This," and incorrect image caption punctuation.
  • Date added: June 18, 2011
  • Changes since last review: diff

(0 Inqs/0 Users/0 Total)

Support

Object

Jujiggum
  • Currently needs an update from Choices of One.
  • I'll give it a full review once the update has been made. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 17:41, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
    • Choices of One is updated, working on Extinction next. Thanks for your patience! Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 03:27, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
CC
  • Extremely insufficient coverage of Extinction. I'm sure that there's a lot more that can be said from that comic. CC7567 (talk) 06:45, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
    • Will get to both of these this weekend. I apologize, had login issues and been very busy IRL. Thanks for the thoughts. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 04:23, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
Jade Solitaire
  • Some timeline issues in the early bio. Mentions that she visited Belsavis around the time of the Battle of Hoth before getting to the Allegiance stuff, which takes place over two years before the Battle of Hoth.
  • A lot of missing context early in the bio: C-3PO and R2-D2, Battle of Yavin, Wilhuff Tarkin,
  • "Eliminating Choard" and "Investigating Ferrouz" should have quotes --- they're the sections dedicated to Allegiance and Choices, respectively. Ditto "On the run," which has Mara Jade: A Night on the Town for quote fodder; "Apprenticeship," which has Mysteries of the Sith; "Dark Times," which has Star by Star; "A Cry for Help" and "The Unseen Queen," which have the Dark Nest trilogy,
  • I'm skeptical that the info from Timothy Zahn's nameless trilogy is as comprehensive as it could be. She plays a large role in Heir to the Empire, yet there are only two paragraphs covering it. The Last Command only has three paragraphs.
  • Same objection, but for the Dark Nest trilogy.
  • Vision of the Future sees Jade heavily imply, if not outright state, that she and Lando spent much of 7 ABE - 11 ABE tracking down Jorj Car'das. The article mentions it once, almost in passing, without giving any idea of the timeframe.
  • Is the "Family tree" section necessary? None of it is sourced.
    • Removed. Covered by the family articles, where that belongs. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 13:48, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
  • Most of the fact files are missing specific articles & page numbers in the "Sources" section. Menkooroo (talk) 02:58, July 31, 2012 (UTC)
  • Building on the Jorj Car'das objection above: This should also be detailed in the "Lando Calrissian" section of "Relationships." Said section mentions that they were on an unpleasant assignment from Karrde but leaves it unnecessarily vague and detail-less.
  • Some issues of Insider are referenced throughout, rather than the individual articles using {{InsiderCite}}.
  • "Insider 38" is referenced in the BTS for a sentence about Mara, but no article from that issue appears in the "Sources" section.
  • What's currently reference [52] links to "StarWars.com - Questions and Answers, Expanded Universe section (December 20, 2004)" with a link pointing to the Main Page of starwars.com. {{SWArchive}} should be used in order to point to the actual page.
  • Some other templates are missing in some references, such as {{HasbroCite}} and {{Journal}}.
    • The links in refs [105] and [107] are actually broken and need replacing. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 13:48, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
  • An Interview With Timothy Zahn is referenced but is missing from the "Sources" section, as is her latest Hasbro action figure.
  • The Legacy of the Force coverage is insufficient. Two paragraphs each for Exile, Betrayal, Bloodlines, three for Sacrifice... one of the Sacrifice paragraphs is partially unsourced, too.
  • Ditto the Corellian trilogy. She plays a large role in all three books; each book has a single paragraph dedicated to it in the bio. Menkooroo (talk) 06:05, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
  • "Behind the scenes" should detail her non-canon appearances in things like Masters of Teras Kasi, and the implications of her killing the wrong Luke, as described in the non-canon An Apology. Menkooroo (talk) 03:36, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
  • "Emperor's Hand" is listed as an affiliation in the infobox. I think this is wrong; it would be like listing "Captain" in the infobox.
  • Hair eye and skin colour should be somewhere in the article. Also height.
    • I'd like to see a specific FAN requirement for this objection. There's plenty of precedent to not do it this way and since the data is provided with a valid reference, I don't understand the point of parroting it again somewhere in the article.
  • Only the infobox and categories ever state that she's Human.
    • Is there now a hard-and-fast requirement that the infobox cannot contain unique data? I'd consider that precedent disturbing in that case. For example, battle articles could become very repetitive and list-heavy when it comes to listing off participants/casualties. Not only that, but we'd be including OOU eras in IU prose if infobox-only information wasn't allowed. Clarification, please. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 02:53, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
      • Same Mofference consensus: No infobox-exclusive info (barring obvious exceptions such as OOU stuff). Every character FA and GA since that time has had species and sex established at the beginning of the bio and things like hair colour, height, etc, in the P&T. Menkooroo (talk) 03:27, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • The Vision of the Future stuff is missing some details\context --- the Qom Jha are detailed, but no mention of the Qom Qae is made until the very end of the section.
  • Some timeline issues at the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong War. The end of "The rediscovery of Outbound Flight" states that Mara's feeling ill from a mysterious illness, but the event where she gets infected with the illness isn't detailed until the beginning of "Jedi Master" (the next section).
  • Force Heretic II: Refugee is only covered by two short paragraphs. More can be said about the events of that book and Mara's time on Csilla.
  • The reference to Dooku at the end of the Yuuzhan Vong War is confusing and comes out of nowhere. Is it necessary? Menkooroo (talk) 20:15, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
  • Linking isn't too great. A quick check reveals that basic ones like Human, moon, New Jedi Order, Jedi Master, and Jedi High Council (New Jedi Order) are missing from the bio. Twi'lek isn't linked until its fifth mention, Bothan its second.
  • Various image captions that are complete sentences are missing punctuation. Menkooroo (talk) 15:47, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
  • Intro could use a bit of expansion. It doesn't really do justice to the last fifteen years of her life and the three wars in which she fought during that time.
  • Mentioning Sha Koon's vision at the beginning of the bio wouldn't be amiss.
  • The level of detail in the Yuuzhan Vong War section is overall very good, but I feel like it could still be better. I noticed Jag Fel isn't mentioned until the narrative starts describing the events of Remnant, which led me to look at the stuff from Dark Tide II: Ruin and realize that the narrative surrounding the Battle of Ithor is lacking. Overall context on the battle, including the participation of the Imperial Remnant and the Empire of the Hand, is missing. It mentions that Mara fights during the battle but gives very few details about it. Menkooroo (talk) 23:32, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
  • The succession boxes assert that Mara's a member of the Jedi Council from 36 - 40 ABY, but the biography makes no mention of the Jedi Council between 28 ABY (Destiny's Way) and her funeral in 40 ABY (Inferno). This ties into my previous objections regarding Dark Nest and Legacy of the Force coverage being insufficient; there are numerous Council meetings during that itme period that Mara attends. Menkooroo (talk) 15:42, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
    • I'll work this and I definitely appreciate the review, but this isn't going to happen overnight, especially with Mercy Kill coming out soon. :) Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 05:16, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • The Fact File placement in the "Sources" section is wrong --- this can be used as a reference for re-ordering them.
  • Some interesting info that would definitely fit into "Behind the scenes" alongside the other info mentioning her popularity and impact: She was originally going to be in one of the Robot Chicken Star Wars specials. See here and here.
  • I think that Club Jade also deserves some BTS coverage, as a very popular fansite devoted to Mara that got a shoutout by Zahn in Vision of the Future.
  • Regarding the needed expansion to some of the NJO stuff: Dark Journey has only three sentences, and the Enemy Lines books have half a paragraph each. I hope I'm not seeming like a jerk here, but like most 2007 FAs, this article needs a lot of work in order to meet today's standards. Menkooroo (talk) 16:15, August 21, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

  • I apologize profusely for all the errors that I just corrected throughout the article. I rushed the fixes I made before the meeting, and while replacing 300 instances of "Mara" with "Jade" and "Jade Skywalker" isn't exactly exciting, that's what needed to be done. And my second mistake was not doing a satisfactory job of that task. That type of shoddy workmanship is not something I desire to exemplify on Wookieepedia—while I'm not the most polished writer and generally have lots of little errors, failing to allot proper time and effort to fixing the ones that were mentioned is inexcusable. Again, my apologies. I believe that all of the errors mentioned above are now corrected, with one caveat.
  • Caveat: There are some first names used in the article. The Solos tend to have their first names used with a preference of "Solo" for Han and "Organa Solo" for Leia when just one/both of those two are mentioned. Once the kids come into play, I used first names. I also use "Ben" exclusively when referring to Ben Skywalker since Luke is "Skywalker." If there is an alternate preference from the Inquisitorius, please advise. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 02:09, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
  • Important note: Per my comment here, the four-week timer for the existing objections should begin... now! Menkooroo (talk) 04:25, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
    • Based on the scope of the existing work and my current availability on Wookieepedia, I am no longer actively working this article and will not in the future. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 04:14, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Vote to remove nomination (Inq only)

  1. Inqvote Removing an article's FA status is nothing to be taken lightly, but this one has a lot of major issues. Much of it is a relic from 2007 that hasn't been updated to reflect the site's constantly-rising standards, and significant expansion is needed throughout most of the biography. Objections have been unaddressed for four weeks here on the FAN page (and for another three weeks before that on the old Redux page), and Ataru has indicated that he won't be able to tackle them. This was a great FA and a great accomplishment for both Ataru and the site as a whole back in '07, but it doesn't hold up today. Menkooroo (talk) 04:16, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote CC7567 (talk) 14:19, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 17:08, September 21, 2012 (UTC)