Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Inexpugnable-class tactical command ship

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Inexpugnable-class tactical command ship

(5 Inqs/3 Users/8 Total)

Support

  1. Very impressive work, Taral.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 16:51, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
  2. Nicely done. Nayayen...TALK 15:00, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Your first is always cool. Chack Jadson (Talk) 20:20, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
  4. Inqvote CC7567 (talk) 21:15, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
  5. Good work. Xd 17:45, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Nice work. Jonjedigrandmaster Jedi symbol (We seed the stars) 19:11, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Inqvote Cylka-talk- 19:08, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
  8. Inqvote A finely-tuned finished product. Good work, Taral. Toprawa and Ralltiir 17:23, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Object

  1. A quick glance, more to come…
    • I took a quick glance at the article, and I immediately noticed that in the intro, there are numerous references. These are not necessary, please omit them.
    • The Citeweb template should be used for most external references, such as reference 15. Here's a list of the templates.
    • More later. I like what I see, though…--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 18:52, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
  2. Nayayen
    • I'm seeing quite a bit of info exclusive to the intro. "...at 3,100 meters long...", for example, should also be in the main body.
    • This is the same with the infobox. I don't see any mention of the price in the main body.
    • There is a LOT of overlinking throughout. Please go through the whole article and make sure that if something is linked, it is linked only ONCE in the intro, ONCE in the infobox, ONCE in each image caption and ONCE in the main body. Of course, if it only occurs in the main body then it doesn't need to be linked in the intro.
    • There is a wealth of information on Faraway Press that isn't in the article. The Bts would benefit greatly from this. You also should reference these as "John Jackson Miller's production notes for issue XX".
    • I see no mention of the fact that Haazen could control the Vanjervalis chain because he bought the company.
    • The history is not at all comprehensive enough, it is GA standard at best. Please look at a current ship class FA like TIE/sh shuttle for the sort of detail required. You may also find this GA helpful also.
      • I've tried adding some more. Will need to re-evaluate. I've been comparing it to the TIE/sh, whose history details mostly just events in which TIE shuttles took place. This history may be more detailed than it in some ways, but less detailed in other ways. Additional advice on this front would be greatly appreciated. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 00:26, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
        • You're looking almost to detail the history of the ships of this class to the degree that it is in the intro for their own articles (of course, those articles aren't comprehensive so I'm not suggesting you do that). First, The Battle of Serroco could do with some more info (mainly from No.15), specific to Inexpugnables of course. Just more than a sentence at least. Secondly, some mention of the escape from Courageous in No.17 would be good. Finally, more detail of what happened with Swiftsure over Coruscant in No.31 as well. Just some more info that generally details the serving history of the class. Things along the line of those three points above should be ideal. I'll look through the article in detail after you've added this info. NayayenOld Republic military symbol(talk) 21:45, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
          • Thanks for the advice, and thanks for the help with the links, and I'll do as you suggest for the History. I actually have a funeral to attend this weekend out of town, so I won't be able to do much till Sunday (don't think I've abandoned it!). So I shall add all this extra info on Sunday/Monday. Will message you when I've put in those extras. Thanks for your help and understanding! Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 00:50, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
    • I didn't have to look too hard to find these problems. Don't be disheartened, Taral, but this article needs some major work. I will wait until you finish these to put more objections up, that last one will take a while.NayayenOld Republic military symbol(talk) 22:35, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
  3. Nayayen 2.0
    • Intro: "Often described as a mobile space station at 3,100 meters in diameter, it was one of the largest Republic spacecraft in use at the time." None of this is mentioned in the body and I'm not sure what source it is from.
    • "...in the first few weeks of the Mandalorian Wars." Again, not mentioned in the body and I'm dubious of how you got it down to weeks.
      • You're right, it isn't mentioned explicitly in the body, but I do describe how two Inexies were destroyed in the History section, and since the KOTOR comics show the opening shots of the Mandalorian Wars (Vanquo/Taris), the destruction of the Courageous and the Reliance happened within a few weeks of the beginning of the war. So I don't repeat it explicitly, but it is there implicitly. Though if you feel a quick mention is warranted, let me know and I'll see what can be done. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 14:56, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
        • Well actually, now I think about it, the Mandalorian Wars began in 3976 BBY so it can't possibly be the first few weeks. Try and find a way to reword this differently "early in 3,964 BBY". You'll also need to reword references to the start of the Mandalorian Wars given that the date of the start is said to be 3976 BBY. Nayayen...TALK 19:49, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
          • I looked it up, and while the Mandalorian Wars began in 3976 BBY, the Republic was only invaded at the end of 3,964 BBY (issues 7-8-10, in 3,964 and 3963 BBY). So I changed it to either not provide the date, or be explicit to the beginning of the Republic's involvement. Check it out? Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 14:33, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
    • Characteristics: "...with a hollow center" Can you word this a bit better? It makes it sound like some sort of candy right now.
    • Role: "...which allowed an Admiral to command a fleet..." I don't believe that it would be only an admiral in command, ie. Captain Karath.
    • "These ships commanded Republic fleets..." Can you find a different word to use here? "Commanded" doesn't fit.
    • History: Please refer to people by either their first or last names consistently. You use Karath but also Zayne and Carth. Last names tend to be preferred.
    • "..although Karath, Zayne, and Carth were . . . the wall in Zayne's prison cell." This sentence makes it sound as if the three of them dismantled the wall there and then but they didn't, Carrick had used the Force during his incarceration. Also, they gained access to the Deadweight in the Courageous' hangar bay, you've got it mixed up here.
    • Shortly after this, you finish a sentence with "remnants of the Courageous" and then start the next one with that same wording.
    • "After the Battle of Serroco, they were equipped..." Make it clear what you are referring to here.
    • The last half of the penultimate paragraph of the History seems like it was copy'n'pasted from an old revision of the intro. Please reword/move/whatever it so that it flows better.
    • "...used it to command the Republic fleet to both Haazen and the Draay Estate." Commanded it to do what?
    • Bts: "The names of Inexpugnable-class vessels seem to be mostly derived from Earth naval ships." I personally find the Earth reference odd, why not just say "real world"? Also, say that JJM actually did derive the names from real ships.
    • Finally, what is that image doing in the Sources section? It isn't relevant to the adjacent text at all and therefore should either be moved or gotten rid of.
    • Sorry it took me so long to get around to a final review. Nayayen...TALK 20:57, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
  4. Two small things:
  5. Attack of the Clone
    • While I would normally fix most of these myself, I'm going to list all of them so that you can learn what the acceptable standards are.
    • If an image caption is not a complete sentence, it does not deserve punctuation.
    • Please somehow balance out the images. Ideally, there should be only once per section or every three paragraphs. Also, please try to standardize your paragraph size—the article isn't very aesthetically appealing when there are sporadic lengths.
    • "A possible auxiliary thruster": this isn't very clear; please clarify.
    • Pipelinking such as "[[Aurek tactical strikefighter|Aurek]] [[Starfighter/Legends|starfighter]]s" makes linking rather overdone; it's perfectly fine to link to articles only when they first appear, as the role of linking is as a supplement, not an attempt to direct the reader to every single related article.
    • "These ships led Republic fleets throughout the early Mandalorian Wars, including the Battle of Vanquo, the Battle of Serroco, the First Battle of Taris, and in orbit of Coruscant." I'm not really sure how this is relevant enough to be included in the Role section. From the Layout Guide: "Role encompasses the duties the vessel or vehicle type was designed and/or used for. Strengths and weaknesses in application are laid out here, as well." Also, watch the placement of your references; it currently implies that the entire sentence is attributable to all four of those sources, and I'm unsure if that's true or not.
    • Going from the section of the LG that I just quoted, please check to see if all of the article's information—including that of the Characteristics section—is in the right place.
    • I'm going to stop there for now and give you time to work on the article before I continue. I would highly recommend paying attention to linking. Articles are linked once in the infobox, once in the intro, and once in the body of the paragraph—no less, no more. I've changed what I caught, but you should go through the article and make sure that the linking is impeccable. CC7567 (talk) 06:37, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Per the Manual of Style, please use metric units instead of standardized American ones.
      • The only one I saw was "ton", which is a) metric, b) in the list of measurement units, and c) properly sourced. If I missed another one, please let me know and I'll gladly change it. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:03, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
        • The problem is that "ton" is also an American unit. It would be better if you could either say "metric ton" and leave it there or convert it to kilograms if at all possible to avoid confusion. CC7567 (talk) 19:49, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • Can we get a time marker at the very beginning of the History section?
      • I'm sorry but I don't understand. There is no source for the earliest origins of the ship class, only tis first appearance in canon, in KOTOR #8. So, short of re-writing the sentence to have the first appearance at the front, there isn't much I can do (unless I don't understand what you mean by "time market". Please advise. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:03, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
        • Time "marker," and I'm referring to the possible implementation of such a marker for the Republic's decision that it needed a "tactical command ship to coordinate its large fleets." Even only something like "Prior to the Mandalorian Wars" might help, if it can be said. CC7567 (talk) 19:49, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • "allowing access the Deadweight in the Courageous's landing bay": please check this; a word is missing somewhere.
    • "Mandalore the Ultimate later claimed that his battle-axe was forged from the Courageous's hull." I'm not quite sure if this is relevant; please clarify why it is.
    • "specifically so that they might intercept Carrick": who wanted to intercept him? Why?
    • You can only link to an article once in captions throughout the article where the article is first mentioned. I personally would recommend removing all links in images.
    • Can we get a little more context on Vindiciation, i.e. whether it was an actual battle, a code word, or something else?
    • Context on Cassus Fett.
    • "Fett's fleet fought a brief battle with the Republic": can we get a link to that battle somewhere in this section, preferably where it's first mentioned?
    • "Upon Admiral Karath being informed of the true nature of the battle": please reword this somehow and use an actual noun instead of a gerund (the -ing word, "being"), as it's currently very choppy.
    • Please check all rank capitalization against the Manual of Style.
    • "Only six Inexpugnable-class vessels, including prototypes and production models, were ever manufactured, since problems began cropping up with the design." Is there a reason why this is mentioned so late in the History when it has much more relevance toward the very beginning?
      • I disagree. It's not a matter of "we built six, but they weren't great so we stopped building them". I think it's more a "We started building them, but because they weren't great we stopped at six." That is more appropriate at the end, because it's the final decision of the manufacturing of the ships, presumably after most were destroyed or have had their weaknesses show (if the Republic knew early on that the ships had major weaknesses, then I figure they wouldn't be using them as flagships in a war.) Please clarify if you disagree or have another POV. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:03, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
        • That's fine, then, assuming that the date for this fact isn't known. Thank you for clarifying. CC7567 (talk) 19:49, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • "This different appearance may have been artistic interpretation, or it could be due to the fact that the Swiftsure was a proof-of-concept ship and therefore may have had a slightly different design." Speculation does not belong in articles, so please clarify its inclusion or remove it.
      • I removed the in-universe speculation about the proof-of-concept idea, but I properly sourced the other idea. Yes, it is technically speculation, but it is founded and sourced. I can remove the whole paragraph if you like, but then that picture looks out of place, and I feel that that picture is important to the article. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 16:16, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • Please continue to watch your linking, as I currently find it the most prominent issue at hand. I will be going through the article again with you to make sure that it's in good shape once you fix all of these. CC7567 (talk) 01:45, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
  6. Toprawa:
    • Please provide some kind of link--a redlink will suffice--for this battle-axe. It may be pertinent to leave a specific redlink for Mandalore's individual weapon. You know the material better than I do, so make an executive decision here: "Mandalore the Ultimate later claimed that his battle-axe was forged from the Courageous's hull."
    • I feel it would be good to briefly mention which are the remaining vessels here for a quick refresher: "After the Battle of Serroco, the remaining Inexpugnable-class ships were equipped"
      • I disagree, since we don't know preciesly which Inexies remain. We only know for sure that the Courageous and Reliance were destroyed, and that the Swiftsure and Tremendous were still around. We assume that the Indefatigable is there, but we don't even know for certain that it was built yet, and the sixth Inexie was never named. The only evidence we do have for certain is which two were destroyed. And even if we did know for certain that the others were all in service at that moment, I wouldn't want to say "and the sixth, unnamed one". If, however, you have an idea that would account for this, please be my guest. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 14:45, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • This sentence is technically a dangling modifier. Please specify who refitted the vessel with the sensor package: "After refitting the Swiftsure with the Vanjervalis sensor package, that ship was used as a basis for the production model"
    • Later what year? The only year mentioned remotely near this statement is the year 3,964 BBY two paragraphs earlier. Please specify, and remember to keep your readers fully abreast of what time frame they're dealing with: "Later that year, Karath took the Swiftsure and its task force"
    • What is the purpose of this planet's location? Is this where Jarael is being held, or whatever the case is? The sentence seems to imply this, but the connection is very vague. Please specify. This is also a good opportunity for a reminder that when writing articles, never assume the reader is familiar with the source material and therefore automatically knows what you're talking about and what is going on. Assume they don't, in fact, know what's going on: "Golliard revealed the position of the planet Osadia to the Republic"
    • The final sentence of the History section mentions specific starship components, namely the Rendili engines of the Trade Federation ships, which the article sources to Episode I. The Episode I film in no way specifies what type of engine these vessels are using. A more specific source is needed here. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:14, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
  7. Cylka:

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 17:23, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

  • I would really recommend removing all of those subheaders and merging all of the info in the Characteristics section under that main header. It doesn't seem like there's enough info on each specific part of the ship to balance the section aesthetically as a whole. CC7567 (talk) 05:31, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
  • As reliable as it is for basic information, I don't think it's good practice to cite Wikipedia as a source. I may be able to find a book citation instead for Indefatigable and Swiftsure. Also, HMS Indefatigable was the ship Horatio Hornblower served in his first book. -LtNOWIS 04:33, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • You might want to mention that the Inexies were given an entry in the CSWE.--Jedi Kasra (comlink) 21:16, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • It's not mentioned in the text, but the CSWE is in the Sources section, and is referenced in the Reflist. I'm not sure how adding it in the Bts would work (I think it might look weird actually, especially since most other articles don't have something like that). If you have a way to make it work, let me know and we'll try, but I'm not so sure that it needs more. Taral, Dark Lord of the Sith -Just shy, not antisocial: You can talk to me!- 15:43, March 8, 2010 (UTC)