Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Homeworld Security Command

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Homeworld Security Command

  • Nominated by: Coruscantfan (Talk) 23:10, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Freedom for security: enter the Empire

(3 Inqs/4 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Plagueis327 (talk) 19:53, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
  2. Inqvote IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 18:57, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
  3. Inqvote Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 11:45, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
  4. Good work, Cfan. Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 03:30, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
  5. ~SavageBOB sig 12:35, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote Nice. Menkooroo (talk) 13:11, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
  7. Great work.—Jedi Kasra ("Indeed.") 02:12, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Object

Floyd
  • In the intro, you mention Palpatine before he is linked and contextified.
    • Done.
  • Intro: Context on General Grievous.
    • Done.
  • Shouldn't your "Overview" section be "Description"?
    • Yep.
  • I feel like Description could be beefed up a little bit—information about how they operated, such as posting up outside areas of high importance could be mentioned.
    • Done.
  • You should use cite web in the BtS, for that TFN link.
    • Done.
  • You use the phrase "worked closely with military forces" in consecutive sentences. Try to avoid this type of repetition.
    • Done.
  • The clone shock troopers used by the HSC are not mentioned in the Overview, but they should be. All you mention is the civilian force.
    • Done.
  • "Though unknown at the time, this move had already been preplanned." By whom?
    • Done.
  • Nice job. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 20:46, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
Savaged…
  • Can you indicate the earliest date for when we know they were active in 'History"? I know we don't necessarily know when the organization was founded, but we should be able to say something like, "By X BBY, Homeworld Security Command was active on Coruscant blah blah blah..."
    • I tweeked the wording in the seconded sentence, does that work?
  • "Although unknown at the time..." Unknown to whom? Surely Palpatine knew.
    • Done.
  • Several instances of passive voice in the article mask who is doing what to whom. I realize that we don't now specifically what person or organization is doing many of these things, but whenever possible (like for things ordered directly by Palpatine), a switch to active voice might be in order. For other instances, consider saying something like, "Imperial law mandated that..." rather than using passive voice. Some examples:
    • "Holocams were installed in previously private areas of the Grand Convocation Chamber." Because of the passive voice, the connection of this sentence to the HSC is unclear. Did they install the cameras? Or use them? If so, rephrase in the active voice to say as much.
      • Done.
        • This is still in passive with no indication of who installed the cams. ~SavageBOB sig 13:05, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
          • Done.
    • "Rumors on antiwar demonstrations put down with brutal force, beings disappearing, and private property sized from their owners, were quickly discredited." Ditto this sentence. Are the HSC being accused of these things are doing the discrediting? Without active voice, it's impossible to tell. Can you rephrase?
      • Done.
        • This remains the same -- are the rumors that HSC is doing these things? It's not clear. ~SavageBOB sig 13:05, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
          • Done.
    • "and the Separatists were routed." By whom? The HSC? Jedi?
      • Done.
    • "the presence of Coruscant Guard shock troopers and the 501st Legion were increased in public areas on Coruscant." By whom? Palpatine? The next sentence too. If we know who ordered this to happen, we should say so.
      • We don't know, just that it happened.
    • "The issuance of Order 66, which declared all Jedi as enemies of the state, became the last major operation of Homeworld Security." Who issued this?
      • Done.
    • "martial law was declared." Who declared it?
      • Done.
    • "With the Declaration of a New Order..." What is this, and who declared it?
      • Done.
        • New Order itself still needs context. What is it? ~SavageBOB sig 13:05, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
        • This still needs fixing, then I'll happily support. ~SavageBOB sig 14:46, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
          • Whoops, sorry, I missed this earlier. Coruscantfan (Talk) 20:19, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
    • "and was given primacy to police Coruscant." Given by whom?
      • We don't know officially.
    • "The Internal Security Bureau (ISB) was formed[11] from elements of the Commission for the Protection of the Republic and CSF's Anti-Terrorism and detective divisions." Formed by whom?
      • Done.
    • "its function was dissolved." Dissolved by whom?
      • De facto based on the previous facts. We don't know who officially.
        • Ah, OK. I see you discuss this in Note 2. That sounds very speculative to me, though (the whole note does). We know from other sources that Palpatine purposefully designed the Empire so that various government agencies would have vague and overlapping jurisdictions, thus ensuring rivalry between factions and preventing any one group from gaining too much power. Thus, it seems like too much speculation to assert that Homeworld Security was dissolved since no further sources mention it. It could have persisted alongside the other law enforcement agencies you mention just as easily, per existing canon. Why don't you move most of Note 2 into the BTS and, instead of stating it dissolved, merely mention that the organization's fate has not been revealed? You should probably also cite a source about the overlapping jurisdictions in the Empire thing. I can't think of a source off the top of my head, but maybe someone in the Knowledge Bank can help? ~SavageBOB sig 14:46, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
          • I don't really agree but you make a good point. I made the recommended changes so see if that brings things more in line. Coruscantfan (Talk) 20:19, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
  • "Yet Organa and other Senators felt that the actions of the shock troopers were just more examples of too much power in the hands of Palpatine." This is the first mention of Palpatine as the leader or commander of the HSC in the "History" section, so it's unclear why Organa links up the actions of the HSC to him. Can you establish the connection earlier? You mention that Palpatine secretly called for their creation, but we need some indication that the connection was public as well for Organa's assumption to make sense.
    • Its confusing to being with: I think its one of those cases where the author, knowing how things end in EPIII wrote something but it wasn't really thought through for future material because the HSC definistion in CSWE is that it is technically a civilian agency that coordinates the actions of the Coruscant Guard and the CSF. No where does it say in the book, the CSWE or anywhere else that Palpatine had direct control of the HSC and the Coruscant Guard. If I had to give an explanation I would say it was because Organa assumed Palaptine had control as Chancellor aka commander of the clone army. Long story short, I'd rather leave the statment as is and write it off as Oranaa's opinion since we have no other cannon explanation for it.
      • Still, Palpatine comes out of nowhere here. Can you make it explicit that Organa was assuming Palpatine to be involved? It could be as simple as adding: "Palpatine, whom he linked to the organization" at the end of the sentence. ~SavageBOB sig 13:05, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
  • Can you indicate what type of media Labyrinth of Evil is?
    • Done.
  • The It in the BTS is unclear. I know you're referring to the HSC, but we could read that it to refer to Labyrinth of Evil.
    • Done.
  • You should swap out the direct URL hardlinks in BTS for the CIteweb template. Interesting read! ~SavageBOB sig 12:25, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
    • Done. Thanks for the review! Coruscantfan (Talk) 17:34, September 29, 2012 (UTC)
  • OK, last thing, I swear! :) The "History" section starts after the organization has already been founded. Even if no sources says they were founded in X BBY, can you add a note to the effect of: "Homeworld Security Command was active by X BBY," where "X BBY" is the date of their earliest known activity? Then we're golden. ~SavageBOB sig 12:52, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
    • If I had a penny for everytime someone said, "last time I swear", I'd be rich! lol So, I'm a little confused: You may want to double check the first objection you posted and that I addressed cause I think you're repeating yourself. ;) Coruscantfan (Talk) 23:05, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
      • :D Yeah, I think I struck my comment too soon, since I don't see a change here. ~SavageBOB sig 23:27, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
        • Ah. I was wondering :) Changes made. Coruscantfan (Talk) 23:58, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
Cav
  • Would some mention of Thire (and other known members of the Coruscant Guard if any) be appropriate in the article under an "Organization" section? The images prominently show the Coruscant Guard, so mention of individuals might be warranted. - Cavalier OneFarStar(Squadron channel) 12:29, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
    • I'm hesitant, simply because I don't want to go too deep into the Coruscant Guard and get people confused and think its the same thing as Homeland Security. I'm going to change up the pictures, maybe that will work better? Coruscantfan (Talk) 00:45, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
Security
  • "They were active by 22 BBY with the outbreak of the Clone Wars" is currently sourced to both Labyrinth of Evil and Triple Zero, which is kind of confusing, as LOE takes place in 19 BBY and Triple Zero doesn't mention HSC at all. Does LOE state that they were active three years beforehand? Also, can you make the first half of that paragraph clear as to what specifically is being reffed to Triple Zero, rather sticking two refs together at the end?
    • Clarified. The LOE ref shouldn't have even been there.
      • Now there are two refs to Triple Zero (ref [3]) in a row, which isn't right. It doesn't seem like "Homeworld Security supervised the Coruscant Guard" can be sourced to Triple Zero when Triple Zero doesn't appear in this article's "Appearances" section.
        • The ref 3 issue has been fixed. But I'm not sure about the second part cause I'm not seeing where I referenced that. The "Description" section references that to LOE (ref 2) and in the "History" section I did ref it to the CSWE Coruscant Guard entry so I made sure that it was actually referenced to LOE.
  • "The shock troopers, as well as the clones of the 501st Legion, had been trained on Coruscant for law enforcement duties and emerged trained for the city terrain with the outbreak of war." This reads as if the clones were trained on Coruscant before the war began, when they were still secretly on Kamino. Can you make it more clear as to what this sentence means?
    • They weren't on Kamino. The 501st and the Coruscant Guard were trained on Coruscant according to the CSWE entry for Thire and the Republic Commando series which states the same thing. Its also implied by LOE. The Clone Wars movie shows the Coruscant Guard active by the time of the Battle of Christophis shortly after the war's start so thankfully The Clone Wars didn't contradict previous material. The only thing that may cause confusion is Star Wars: Battlefront II but that deals with the 501st not the Shock Troopers so for purposes of this article I'm ignoring that little bit of contradiction. :)
      • Weeeeeeird. However, "Although unknown at the time by the general public, the move had been pre-planned by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine." is currently sourced to Thire's CSWE entry, which doesn't say anything of the sort. Be sure that everything is reffed to the proper sources.
        • Very weird. But considering its Star Wars maybe not so much. Ok the "pre-planned" part I sourced that there because the entry says that they were grown on Coruscant for that specific duty so that's why I say it had been "pre-planned". Are you seeing it as OR? I could source the "Palpatine was behind it all" part specifically to Star Wars: Darth Plagueis? Either way though, I'd rather not go into the whole detail of Palpatine planned the whole war blah blah blah. I think it would get us too sidetracked from the issue. Now the Coruscant Guard article might be another issue. lol
          • Yeah, the current level of detal is fine. You're right in that "Palpatine was behind it all" will need a specific source, though. Menkooroo (talk) 05:49, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Would it be worth adding "by 22 BBY" to the "founded" field of the infobox?
    • I've shied away from that simply because the entry from CSWE and other material all but comes right out says they existed before the war. But there is no specific date. That's why the beginning of the History section is worded the way it is on the founding date: non-committal.
  • The organization is called "Homeland Security" twice in the "History" section. That ain't right.
    • Sigh. I thought I fixed all of those I kept writing Homeland when I wrote the article.
      • Still there.
        • Huh. Strange. Well, they're fixed now. I'm not sure why those changes did go in the first time. Anyways...
  • "became the last major operation of Homeworld Security" --- If we don't know for sure that they stopped existing, can we really say that it's the last?
    • We do know for sure, the CSWE entry establishes they only existed as part of the Republic government. They Empire dissolved, merged or did something to make them no longer exist.
      • Ah, OK. The article body and "Behind the scenes" should be consistent with each other, in that case. The BTS's current claims of "Homeworld Security's fate after the formation of the Empire has not been officially established" and "On the other hand, no source explicitly states that the organization was dissolved" are at odds with the article's assertion that it definitely was dissolved. I get what that paragraph in the BTS is trying to say regarding unclear and conflicting sources, but it should be written in a way so as to agree with what's in the article body rather than suggesting that the article body is wrong. Even just one of those meta-"This article assumes that so-and-so source is correct because of..."-type sentences.
        • Those sentences came from SavageBob's objections which I didn't really agree with. But now that I have someone agreeing with me i.e. your current objection, I'll change it back. ;)
  • Ref [11] appears twice in a row at the end of "History." Is one of them supposed to be something else?
    • Yes, two of them were supposed to be.
      • Two consecutive ref [11]s are still there at the end. Menkooroo (talk) 07:57, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
  • That external link following "between the novel and the real world. in the BTS should be a reference (preferably using {{WebCite}}) rather than just an external link. It also seems like it would be more accurate if it came just before "a department set up to combat terrorist threats.", which is the only thing that need be reffed to the Homeland Security website.
    • Done.
  • No (Mentioned only) in the Sources section! Sources are by definition (Mentioned only)! Good job. Menkooroo (talk) 04:25, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • OK, a final (but a big) one: After thinking about it, I think I largely agree with Bob's objection --- asserting that Homeworld Security was dissolved does seem speculative, and beyond the realm of logical deduction. I like what the end of the "History" section does --- that is, it mentions the Imperial organizations that police Coruscant during the New Order --- but stating that HS was definitely, absolutely not also around and working alongside them is based on assuming and speculating. If the "History" section jettisoned the line about their "last major operation," it would be perfect.

    As for the BTS, the second paragraph of the BTS reads like an investigative essay that's attempting to tie together disparate and unrelated threads. Yes, the CSWE calls it a Republic organization, but that's because the CSWE is reporting on what was in Labyrinth of Evil. It doesn't call it a "Republic-only" organization, and using its text as evidence that HS was dissolved seems like quite a bit of a stretch.

    It might be prudent to keep the BTS's second paragraph, but it should be written in a less investigative and speculative way. Mentioning the stuff from GAW and 501st is good, as is noting that no source has stated that HS was dissolved, but that's really all that's necessary. It gets the point across without venturing into Original Research, and it lets the reader connect the dots for themselves. The current claim that HS is dissolved is the kind of Original Research that should be avoided.     Menkooroo (talk) 05:49, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • Ok, makes sense. I've dropped the "only" part and reworded the second paragraph of the BTS. Coruscantfan (Talk) 15:02, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 02:29, December 20, 2012 (UTC)