- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Firmus Piett
(6 Inqs/5 Users/11 Total)
Support
- Thefourdotelipsis 13:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- Admiral. Pfeh! -- Ozzel 02:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Worked out the only issue I had in IRC. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 12:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)- Green Tentacle (Talk) 18:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- His MO is similar to mine at work. Graestan(Talk) 00:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
- Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 09:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The WP:NEGTC parade rolls on. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 13:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)- --Gonzalo84 04:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- —Xwing328(Talk) 21:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
- Jeez, this isn't queued yet? O_o Anyways, I just finished reading it. Nice job, 4dot. Greyman@wikiajanitor(Talk) 00:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
- Ready for the tractor beam. Toprawa and Ralltiir 01:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Oppose
- From the squalid cubicle of Graestan:
"both enthusiasm and fear that he would meet the same fate as Ozzel" – Please reword for clarity.- Adjusted.
The Declaration of a New Order could use a little context.- I've added a touch of follow up and another link for readers.
It is not yet established that the Alliance has a new base when you say "Piett and his crew searched for the new Alliance base" – Is this speculation on the part of the Imperials, or can a phrase be added to the previous section about the Alliance seeking out new refuge?- Phrase added.
Grammel's position should be established forthright.- I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.
- He is simply referred to without context, and it's a bit confusing. Where is he? Who does he work for? This should be set up initially. Graestan(Talk) 01:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- Aha, I see. Fixed, and this actually works much better, as there's a bit more of a set up to Circarpous V as well. Thefourdotelipsis 10:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- He is simply referred to without context, and it's a bit confusing. Where is he? Who does he work for? This should be set up initially. Graestan(Talk) 01:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.
"a possible candidate" is kind of out of the blue. Rebel base had been mentioned, but was a while back. Please reorient the reader.- Done.
"made a tactical blunder when exiting hyperspace in the Hoth system" – I believe the dialogue of ESB has them arriving too close to the system, not exactly in it, as the mistake. Was there a different version? If not, please revise.- Fixed.
- Non-objection: Nice dodging of the term "on Bespin," which always makes me go "hmmm."
- Quite. ;)
Mention the significance of the shield generator, please.- Added.
I could have sworn Rebel fighters took out the Executor's bridge shield… If not stated otherwise, can this get a mention?- "His ships" kinda works here, since Ackbar was in overall command.
- I am mistaken. The way the film is put together, it appears Rebels attack the shield projector domes (now retconned as sensor globes) of the ship before Executor's shield go down, but if you look closely, it's an ISD they hit. Graestan(Talk)
- Just to weigh in on this, since the Executor is one of my FA projects-in-the-works they are still the shield projector domes, but have been retconned to hold the dual purpose of sensor globes as well. The ship the A-wings attack is indeed the Executor, not an ISD. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- I am mistaken. The way the film is put together, it appears Rebels attack the shield projector domes (now retconned as sensor globes) of the ship before Executor's shield go down, but if you look closely, it's an ISD they hit. Graestan(Talk)
- "His ships" kinda works here, since Ackbar was in overall command.
Present tense in the last part of the bio.- Where, exactly? "The Battle of Endor was eventually lost by the Empire, with Palpatine dying his first death at the hands of the turncoat Lord Vader, who also perished." is past tense, I and several others believe. Thefourdotelipsis 08:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- Ah, Hydro found it. I would have called brain fart...only I didn't actually add that sentence at all. To you members of the audience, let this be a lesson to you: Constant Vigilance! Thefourdotelipsis 08:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- Try Nebulaxian, err, I mean, draconian measures. Graestan(Talk) 01:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- Now, now, no need to bring that up. ;-) Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 13:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Now, now, no need to bring that up. ;-) Atarumaster88
- Try Nebulaxian, err, I mean, draconian measures. Graestan(Talk) 01:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
- Graestan(Talk) 02:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- From the Merciless Hammer of Toprawa:
This is referenced to as though we are introduced to this concept already. Please reword to better say this was something he had done in the past: "soon after his promotion but was able to shift blame as he had done in the past."- Done.
Context for Mr. Dodonna, please: "Piett was on board the Executor once again when it fell under attack from Vrad Dodonna."- Added.
This doesn't tell me anything. You say the Executor was attacked by Dodonna, and then that attack failed. Please elaborate a little bit on what happened, specifically: "Piett personally congratulated Vader when Dodonna's attack failed."- That's the part that's relevant to Piett. In that, when Vader's plans or whatever worked, he was there to congratulate him. There's nothing on his other actions in the battle.
- Could you add a little bit to explain, as I remember it, that he attempted to ram his ship into the Executor? Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- Added. Thefourdotelipsis 10:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- Could you add a little bit to explain, as I remember it, that he attempted to ram his ship into the Executor? Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- That's the part that's relevant to Piett. In that, when Vader's plans or whatever worked, he was there to congratulate him. There's nothing on his other actions in the battle.
Kind of an addendum to the previous objection. IIRC, Dodonna's attack is what caused Griff's death, no? Should clarify: "During the Fifth Battle of Yavin 4, in which the forces of the Galactic Empire drove the Alliance to Restore the Republic out of their hidden fortress, Admiral Griff perished in an accidental collision."- As far as I can recall, Griff died when his ships accidentally hypered into the Executor. Dodonna was long dead. Thefourdotelipsis 05:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- My mistake then. Toprawa and Ralltiir 06:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
- As far as I can recall, Griff died when his ships accidentally hypered into the Executor. Dodonna was long dead. Thefourdotelipsis 05:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
This reads as though he was attempting to acquire the crystal and the two Rebels from Imperial justice. That phrase is redundant anyhow. Recommended that you just remove that and all will be fine: "the Dark Lord was unable to acquire either the Kaiburr crystal or the two fugitives from Imperial justice."- "From Imperial justice" removed.
The use of "droid" here just reads silly. Ideally replace the first one to describe the probe, or whatever it is: "Sure enough, the droid did detect a Rebel presence, but it was only a pair of droids"- Changed to "probe."
This...just doesn't read well. All of these 'in Vader's eyes,' 'in Vader's view.' These sentences could be tightened up to avoid unnecessary redundant wording, perhaps even condense into a single sentence.: "The admiral had been made to look a fool, souring him in Vader's eyes just as Piett had planned. At the same time, the Axxilan had made himself appear sharp and calculating in the Dark Lord's view, gaining him a small degree of favor."- "In the Dark Lord's view" removed.
Your quote heading the "Admiralty" section is...incorrect. I'm going to let you change it so you can learn from your mistake. I suggest turning on the captions for the ESB DVD.- Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Please reword to avoid passive voice: "betting pools were formed on the command ship by the junior officers"- Fixed.
At this point here, you could probably add a little bit to refer to Piett's "preference to avoid the issue" of the escape of the Falcon for comprehensiveness's sake. See pg. 73 of the novel: "Piett briefly toured the remains of Echo Base before informing Vader that seventeen Rebel ships had been destroyed while trying to flee."- I think the article has enough of the "living in fear of the Dark Lord" angle to not have to mention it at every failing. That just becomes repetitive.
Your subsequent explanation of Vader's desire to capture Solo and the others in lure of Skywalker could benefit from an explanation that Vader initially believed Skywalker to be aboard the Falcon (see pg. 83 of the novel). He later changed his plan to capture Solo, etc. on advice from Boba Fett. (See: The Ultimate Visual Guide).- Well, I'm working from the information given, and the information given tells me that Fett gave Vader the idea of capturing Solo and the Falcon long ago.
You're missing detail here. Please explain how Vader ordered Piett to employ "every available ship" to "sweep the asteroid field" until they were found? "TIE/sa bombers were dispatched to try and force Captain Solo out, but to no avail."- That's semantics. Fixed anyway.
Wow. How could you leave out the bit about Piett seeing Vader unmasked before the asteroid report...?- Because it's pretty trivial. Naturally, it's in there now.
Could probably supplement this by explaining that the bounty hunters were hired as a result of Piett's/the fleet's own inability/incompetence in capturing the Falcon: "To Piett's distaste, Vader summoned a group of bounty hunters to the Executor in order to make use of their services in locating the Millennium Falcon."- That's alluded to in the P/T.
Are you making this up? I'm not sure any source ever indicates exactly what the Avenger's transmission indicated, though I could be wrong. At any rate, this should not be referenced to ESB: "was within sight, and that capture was imminent"- It's exactly what the film cuts to, though. Still. De-specified.
Again, more detail here please. Should specify that Piett relayed Vader's order for the Star Destroyers of the fleet to each enter hyperspace along different trajectories it was calculated that the Falcon may have taken. You could even explain that the Falcon had in fact attached itself to the Avenger's bridge tower and was right under their noses: "Vader ordered Piett to disband the fleet in the search for the Millennium Falcon"- The information is presented as it comes to Piett, to avoid "little did he know"s. I don't see any problem with the detail level there at all, really.
- You're fine, but I would like to see this reworded, please. "Disbanded" seems to imply that the fleet was permanently broken up, rather than deployed along different trajectories
- The information is presented as it comes to Piett, to avoid "little did he know"s. I don't see any problem with the detail level there at all, really.
This sentence isn't doing enough to explain exactly what transpired in this scene. You should better explain that Piett was more or less told that if he failed again, he would be killed: " The Dark Lord was not pleased, and made no hesitation in conveying his mood to the fearful Piett, who was sharply reminded of his predecessor's fate."- Ozzel died. That's specified earlier in the article. It's pretty clear.
What bait? You need to explain that Solo and his crew were captured by Vader on Cloud City, and that Skywalker was lured there, before finally escaping: "Sure enough, Vader returned from the city empty-handed, despite the fact that Skywalker had taken the bait"You need to detail the scene in which Piett readies the boarding party, under Vader's command, to take control of the Falcon. You could even explain that Vader inquired as to whether or not Piett had deactivated the hyperdrive, and that the Falcon escaped after it was repaired. Just too much over-generalization here. You're missing details: "To Piett's surprise and fear, the Millennium Falcon successfully made the jump to lightspeed."- No, I'm summarizing events in a concise fashion, and not turning it into a play-by-play.
Weak explanation here. This goes way back to when you first say that Vader wanted Skywalker to "join his cause." What is his cause? Why is he joining? Should indicate in some capacity that Vader wanted him to turn to the dark side: "since Skywalker, his son, had refused to join him."- Clarification made earlier.
I'm not sure what promotion you're referring to here. If you're referring to his promotion admiral, this is really kind of off-kilter, since this happened about 6 months previously to the point where we're at in the article here.: "Hoping to survive his promotion, Piett was ordered to take an unpredictable route from system to system,"- Clarified.
The fleet's more direct responsibility before the attack was the protect the Death Star construction site. Should specify: "Piett was given command of the substantial Imperial fleet amassed at Endor to trap the Alliance"- Fixed.,
- I would still like to see a little mention that he, in charge of the fleet, protected the construction site even before the fleet was brought in to trap the Alliance, please. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- Fixed.,
Please pipelink shuttle class here: "went smoothly until the shuttle Tydirium"- Why?
Not exactly. I would consider the massive fleet and the operational superlaser as effective defensive measures: "The shield generator was the battlestation's only defense"- Changed.
Missing detail: the Emperor previously ordered the Executor and the fleet to the far side of Endor so that they would be hidden from the Alliance Fleet when it materialized from hyperspace. Then Piett brought the fleet around the moon and into position behind the fleet, trapping them between it and the Death Star. Please explain this.- Fixed.
Should indicate that the fleet was instructed to keep them from escaping: "Piett was given direct orders from Palpatine to not directly attack and engage the Alliance craft, and so his fleet began to suffer"- Already in there. "Piett's forces blocked the Alliance's escape vector"
"Point-blank tactics" is vague and doesn't really explain that the Alliance capital ships began attacking the Star Destroyers at point-blank range, which the Star Destroyers were unprepared for. Please elaborate/clarify: "from enemy General Lando Calrissian's point-blank tactics."- Clarified.
What does this mean? To battle unhindered? Not every Alliance starfighter went into the superstructure, and they still had to deal with the Alliance capital ships. I wouldn't exactly say the Imperial fleet battled unhindered: "leaving the capital ships to battle unhindered"- Removed.
Your quote heading the P&T is also incorrect. Again, please see the DVD captions.- Changed source.
I don't think this is exactly true. Vader picks Ozzel, a confirmed idiot, to head his ship just to keep an eye on him. See: Allegiance. "Vader chose to crew his ships with the Empire's finest officers, regardless of their politics and background."- Too bad, that's in the New Essential Guide to Characters.
Are you sure RAS says he could speak Huttese and not just understand it? One of the Han Solo Trilogy books establishes Huttese as a language that's all but impossible to speak for the Human vocal cords. If the RAS is just stupid and says that he can speak it, you should somehow explain that this his ability to do this is some kind of special: "Piett could speak Huttese as well as Basic"- Changed.
- Since it's a RPG stat, I'll leave it changed, but for future reference, I'm pretty sure Anakin speaks Huttese in The Phantom Menace, which would outmode the Han Solo Trilogy books, obviously. Thefourdotelipsis 12:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
- That's fine. It may very well have been canonically changed already. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- Since it's a RPG stat, I'll leave it changed, but for future reference, I'm pretty sure Anakin speaks Huttese in The Phantom Menace, which would outmode the Han Solo Trilogy books, obviously. Thefourdotelipsis 12:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
- Changed.
Hmm, not true. He first appeared in Donald F. Glut's novelization: "Admiral Piett first appeared in Irvin Kershner's Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, which was written by Lawrence Kasdan and Leigh Brackett"- Changed.
React so strongly how? Please elaborate a little bit: "something that the actor ultimately believed made audiences react so strongly."- There's a statement in there about him being a fan favourite.
- But this statement comes in the next paragraph and doesn't really support the previous description. I think a brief description of him being a fan favorite in the mail Lucas received prompting him to include Piett in ROTJ should suffice. Toprawa and Ralltiir 22:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- There's a statement in there about him being a fan favourite.
You're missing a source in your list: The Empire Strikes Back: The National Public Radio Dramatization.Toprawa and Ralltiir 03:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)- Added. Thefourdotelipsis 05:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- From the desk of Atarumaster88
A better intro tie-in from running Accuser to Executor would be nice.- I think that works OK as is...do you have any wording suggestions?
- Changed my mind on third read-through. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 13:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Changed my mind on third read-through. Atarumaster88
- I think that works OK as is...do you have any wording suggestions?
The deal about Ozzel and Vader and power in the fleet reads rather poorly. Why was he studying him? How did that make Ozzel annoyed? Could you sort that out some?- Added a bit of clarification that I think makes more sense. Lemme know if it needs more.
Redlinked sourced quote no good.- Mah mistake.
Wizards of the Coast search turns up 33 hits. While most of them will probably not be usable, please sort through them and add the few sources appropriately. Link here: [1]- Ah, thanks. Only a few of them were something, but that's something. ;) Thefourdotelipsis 01:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- Have a Super Terrific Friendly Un-frustrating day. Atarumaster88 (Talk page) 20:06, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- From the cockpit of Xwing328
The paragraph starting, "Vader would not be deterred however..." seems to have almost no relevance to Piett. It's just focused on Vader's actions.- True, but he makes a fleeting appearance in this comic and the situation is a touch too complicated to gloss over, I feel.
"Ozzel, however, made a tactical blunder..." I don't like the transition into this paragraph. It starts with "however," as if this sentence should be in contrast to something else. Sorry if I didn't explain that well...- You explained it. I don't even understand why I had that there in the first place. ;)
"The Death Star was unable to use its superlaser against the enemy craft..." This makes it sound like the Death Star never fired. Maybe reword to say, "The Death Star could no longer use..."- Good idea. Fixed.
"...with Palpatine dying his first death..." That's a confusing sentence for people not familiar with the Emperor's clones.—Xwing328(Talk) 21:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)- Yes, but that's kind of...further reading stuff. If I explain what happened to Palpatine I get too sidetracked from Piett's situation, if I just mention he went kaput I'm not being entirely true. Thefourdotelipsis 08:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment
- Thanks to Ozzel, who helped sort some things out (Jaymach, Eyrezer and Jedimca0 too. And some other people, I'm sure.) Thefourdotelipsis 13:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- "[...] after ferrying Vader to the incomplete battle station to oversee the final phases of construction." In ROTJ, Vader's shuttle lifts off from the Avenger, not from the Executor. Did Windham mess up here?. --Borsk Fey'lya Talk 14:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, the SOTE comic shows him on the Executor as well. But neither actually say he takes the shuttle from the Executor. So...he must have transferred to the Avenger, then gone to the DSII. No, it doesn't make sense to me either. Thefourdotelipsis 22:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)