- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.
Far Orbit
- Nominated by: 501st dogma(talk) 22:28, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: Here it is! It's my longest article yet, at 19,000 words. I'm now taking a massive break from anything to do with the Far Orbit...
(4 Inqs/3 Users/7 Total)
Support
- Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 23:07, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
CC7567 (talk) 02:15, March 3, 2014 (UTC)- IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 02:52, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
- Cade
Calrayn 18:35, June 8, 2014 (UTC) - JangFett (Talk) 01:54, July 1, 2014 (UTC)
- Clone Commander Lee Talk 10:03, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
- —Jedi Kasra ("Indeed.") 17:23, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
Object
4dot
"with enough juice to fire" - Need a more technical description.- There.
"The decks of the Far Orbit ascended in number as one got further down the frigate, and nearer to its bottom." This could either be rephrased or, I think, be removed as it's redundant with the subsequent descriptions.- Removed.
"the remaking of the Imperial Navy" - What's the remaking of the Imperial Navy? I don't think that's the right word.- The book uses retooling, so that has taken its place.
"However, Kenit was good and proficient at taking out pirates" - Too informal- Skilled has replaced good.
"and three pirate lords and numerous lone pirating vessels were captured or destroyed by Kenit's organization of local Imperial assets into military strikes" - A bit repetitive.Using "putting off" in reference to removing people from the ship isn't exactly great English. Perhaps find a better way to describe it.- That a bit better?
Far too much detail about the Lean Nuuti Bar and Grill. Not relevant to the Far Orbit.- Taken out the bit about the fight, but I have kept the part about Vedij getting the rights for the ships to be a privateer, as that is important.
- To a degree, I'd still argue that when talking about the history of a ship this level of detail is unnecessary. I personally would advocate a separate event article for the "mission" where they LOD would be more appropriate, at the moment it feels too tangential.
- I've decided to keep mention of the Brentaal and Lean Nuuti parts in the article, as they are important to the article, but I have substantially cut down the sections you objected to. Is that any better? 501st dogma(talk) 22:34, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
- That's excellent. Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 23:07, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
- I've decided to keep mention of the Brentaal and Lean Nuuti parts in the article, as they are important to the article, but I have substantially cut down the sections you objected to. Is that any better? 501st dogma(talk) 22:34, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
- To a degree, I'd still argue that when talking about the history of a ship this level of detail is unnecessary. I personally would advocate a separate event article for the "mission" where they LOD would be more appropriate, at the moment it feels too tangential.
- Taken out the bit about the fight, but I have kept the part about Vedij getting the rights for the ships to be a privateer, as that is important.
"a nitwit." - I like it, but perhaps a tad informal?- The source uses it to describe him, so I saw fit to do so here too.
- No argument here.
- The source uses it to describe him, so I saw fit to do so here too.
- More to come. Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 03:02, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
"There, they were supposed to ask a Devaronian waiter for Gruuvan shall, which would get them the datadisc they wished." - Extraneous detail.- Not so, as it gives an brief overview of the mission, and the details about the Devaronian and the shall are necessary to get the data disc.
- Again, I feel that it would be better served in a separate event article.
- Not so, as it gives an brief overview of the mission, and the details about the Devaronian and the shall are necessary to get the data disc.
"Meanwhile, the landing party managed to land on the world, and made their way to the Pathline Tapcafe. However, due to a non-native workers act passed by the Imperial Senate before it disbanded, the Devaronian Tynial that they were supposed to meet with had been arrested for lacking the proper identification, and thus was not present at the restaurant. Nonetheless, the privateers ordered Gruuvan shaal, and were approached by a waiter who suggested they go to the Jovvitz nightclub later that night. The landing party did, and once there, they found that same waiter, who was actually an Alliance sympathizer, along with some other members of the Alliance. The waiter gave the party the datadisc, though both groups were soon set upon by ISB agents." - Not directly relevant to the ship.- This is already a condensed version of the mission that the party undertook, and I put it in as I thought it was necessary to describe a bit of their mission. I can condense it down a bit more if you like though, by maybe taking out the part about the non-native workers act.
- See above. Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 00:53, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
- This is already a condensed version of the mission that the party undertook, and I put it in as I thought it was necessary to describe a bit of their mission. I can condense it down a bit more if you like though, by maybe taking out the part about the non-native workers act.
"nab" is a touch informal.- Done.
"This section had no officer to run it." - This seems like an unnecessary section, then. Can be mentioned in another section.- Put Engineering Quarters under the Quarters section.
"In the fight in the Lean Nuuti Bar and Grill, there are three possible outcomes: one is where one of the sides wins the fight, and the other buys them drinks; another is where neither sides wins, but the aliens buy the mutineers drinks to patch up relations between them; the last outcome is where Vedij arrives to break up the fight. Since none of the possibilities really affect later gameplay, and because the Vedij option seems to be preferred by the scenario, this article assumes that one is the most canon." Has nothing to do with the ship. Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 04:33, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
The Cadeth regrets this
I switched the order of the sentence about the crystal gravfield traps and the signal interceptors to get rid of the comma—I wuld have just left it as is without the comma, but I'm assuming that the "rarer" adjective only applies to the traps.- K, thanks for the change.
I merged a few of the smaller paragraphs in the Description section, and because some of your sections were rather short, I combined the Sensors, Armaments and Armor, and Complement section into a single Equipment and Armaments section. That also saw me move the Complement info to the top of that section. I think it's a better structure, but feel free to object.- That's fine, but I've changed the header.
Removed some of stuff in the {{C}} in the infobox—it's kind of like using (formerly), which is frowned upon. Also, is the (Lost after mutiny) really necessary in the escape craft field? Just wondering.- It is, because although the Far Orbit can house a full complement of poids, they are all lost during the mutiny. Additionally, in at least one of the scenarios, it is mentioned that the frigate still needs escape craft.
No quotes that can be used for any of these sad-looking quoteless sections? There's so many of them… and they look so sad. :(Please note the formatting changes I made to the Sources section—the various RAS editions should be styled with the ___ Edition unitalicized and not in parentheses. Also, no need for The Far Orbit Project to be in WEG by itself.- Noted.
Could you please modify the X-Wing Alliance reference to better communicate that the game establishes KDY as the Nebulon manufacturer?- Changed the reference to the one used here for Kuat Drive Yards as the maker. Gives an updated reference.
I don't think you need to split the Command Sections into separate subsections. It'd look a lot better if you simply had paragraphs for each with the names of each section leading the paragraphs—maybe even bolded.There are quite a few places where {{Main}} could be used.The intro... I'm a little wary of saying it, but it's a little play-by-play. Maybe cut down on some of the details?- How's that?
The decks sections: what are your thoughts on grouping some of the subsections? Maybe Decks 1-4 and Decks 5-7? Just a thought.- I like it has it is, but if you feel strongly about grouping them, I can.
I'm seeing some linking issues in the Description section: stuff like hull, hyperspace, starship, starfighter, etc. Ironic that I gotta say it, but be sure to watch that. :P- I've linked to hull, but hyperspace is already linked to in the description. Same with starship and starfighters. You are talking about underlinking, right?
- Si senor.
- I've linked to hull, but hyperspace is already linked to in the description. Same with starship and starfighters. You are talking about underlinking, right?
"The computer then could make a good analysis on a variety of subjects based on the data it received." Any way that you could rewrite this to make it sound better? "good analysis" just seems kinda... awkward."The deflector shield generator was located off the propulsion module of the ship to avoid any of the threats that the deflector shield possessed, one of which was its explosive reaction to being breached." "located off the propulsion module"? Huh? Also, maybe rework this into something like "... in order to protect the propulsion module from threats, such as the explosive destruction of the shield generator that would result from a breach in the ship's shields."Are the tractor beams manned by a dozen crewmembers total or a dozen each?- The book doesn't specify. It just has the two combat ones being manned by a dozen crew.
Article for auto-chef. Might just be a redirect to a pre-existing article.- Auto-chef was a miss type- corrected to autochef.
"with the larger willed with triple bunk beds" - huh?- Willed = walled now.
Just a thought: how about merging the Quarters section with the General Information?- Done.
- Reviewed up to the start of the Decks. I'll continue once these have been addressed, but otherwise good work. Cade Calrayn 17:38, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
Not so sure about the use of the Privateering category. Maybe if you found enough articles for a privateering vessels category, but right now it's just kind of in there with miscellaneous stuff...- Ya... removed it from the cat.
- Up to Deck 11. Cade Calrayn 05:39, March 19, 2014 (UTC)
You should discuss the ship's construction before its introduction to the Imperial Navy. Also, context on the Imperial Navy.- That work?
You refer to the Emperor's Will as both a frigate and and a galleon—isn't galleon incorrect? It's a Star Galleon-class frigate, no?- Yes, I've switched all galleons to frigates or Star Galleons.
Who wasted resources? The Empire or the Alliance? Please specify.- Done.
"Kenit was a tyrant" - sorta POV here. Can you maybe make it tyrannical or something?The capitalization of Section isn't consistent in the command sections section. Is this correct? (i.e. "Quarters section" vs. "Quarters Section")- It's all over the place, and there is no consistency. For example, the Command one is referred to both as the Command Section and the Command section. I'm doing it case by case because of this, so some will be capitalized well others will not be.
- Done up to the BTS. Cade Calrayn 03:46, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
Why is "Forward Docking Tube" capitalized and then not in the next sentence? Cade Calrayn 18:11, March 26, 2014 (UTC)In Phase 2, which the book entitles the "Gathering Storm,"—are you sure it isn't "The Gathering Storm" ? Cade Calrayn 14:31, May 27, 2014 (UTC)
Attack of the Clone
Context needed on Empire Forever in the intro.- There, added that its a CR90.
Starfighter combat needs to be linked somewhere.- Linked to it in Modifications.
"Antennae equipment and ship structure were located just fore of S-Com." I might be missing something, but what exactly do you mean by "ship structure"? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.- Took out ship in the ship structure part. The diagram for S-Com has an area labeled antennae equipment and structure, but since I'm not sure what structure they are referring to, I'll just leave it without the ship part.
Does cofferdam need to be linked anywhere?- Pipe-linked from docking tube.
"Recovery wards laid on either side of the bacta ward, the port one had the medical lab, the pharmacy, the medical droid bay, and the doctor's office in front of it." This sentence is a bit wordy and needs splitting up somewhere.Please take a look at the changes that I made up through "Deck 11." Because this is a large article, the remainder of the article could use a good and thorough copy-edit to iron out some of the details. Take some time to read through the rest of the article (out loud if you need to) to spot any errors, whether they're grammatical or otherwise. I realize that will take a considerable amount of time, but that's what an article of this size needs.- I'll continue with "Deck 11" once you've addressed the above objections. CC7567 (talk) 08:26, December 28, 2013 (UTC)
"Deck 11 had a mess for the officer's": something seems a bit off about the possessive apostrophe here; please check.- Killed the apostrophe.
"These single bunks in turn were turn separated": please check this.- I'm still seeing a number of careless errors throughout the article—some of the ones that I corrected were "lay" instead of "laid," "suppled" instead of "supplied," "with out" instead of "without," "has" instead of "had," etc. I'm also seeing a lot of misused en dashes instead of em dashes. I don't expect the article to be perfect, since that's not fair to any nominator, but I would advise you to take another look at the rest of the article and copy-edit any errors you see. Try reading passages aloud to yourself; that's one of the most effective strategies (at least IMO) to catch mistakes. I know from experience that it's harder to catch errors when you're reading something that you've written and already read a hundred times, but do your best. Take a few days to read over the article again if you have to, because quality should be the goal here. I'll pick up with "Modifications" after you've taken some time to proofread the rest of the article again. CC7567 (talk) 21:31, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
Context on Vocis Kenit in the History.- Pow.
"and later died mysteriously": I realize this is probably verbatim from the source, but can this be worded for demystification? Perhaps "died under strange circumstances"—anything to expand this with more detail.- I might have copied the strange circumstances part. >.>
0 BBY is linked exclusively in the intro as the first sighting of the ship. This needs to be expanded/incorporated into the body of the article somewhere.- How so? 0 BBY is the first appearance of the ship in canon, but I guess it could have been in existence before that. Should I remove that fact from the infobox then?
- My concern isn't that the date should be removed from the infobox, but that "0 BBY" itself should be mentioned (or at least linked) somewhere in the body of the article. Currently the only allusion to 0 BBY that I see is "prior to 0 ABY"—which, by itself, is not specifically indicated to be 0 BBY. Either 0 BBY should be pipelinked somewhere in the body of the article, or it should be explicitly mentioned somewhere provided that the information is consistent with the source material. CC7567 (talk) 19:00, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
- How so? 0 BBY is the first appearance of the ship in canon, but I guess it could have been in existence before that. Should I remove that fact from the infobox then?
The first sentence of the "Mutiny" section should be split somewhere.- You sure? I've reworded it, see if that helps it anywhat. It didn't seem to need a split, but I can do so if you still think so.
I don't believe "crewer" is a synonym for "crew member"; it appears to mean something else entirely.- Removed and replaced.
Why is "Alliance Observer" capitalized? Does it deserve an article?- We already have an article - linked to.
Brentaal IV is mentioned in the body before it is linked and given proper context, which appears to be the result of some shuffling of the written sections. Please rectify.- There you go.
I'm admittedly not patient enough to search for the specific place myself, but orbit needs to be linked at its first mention (outside of the ship's name).- There, done.
"just a seconds behind schedule": please check this.- Pow.
"from across the galaxy through the use of the Force": should telekinesis be linked here?- I'll continue with "Commanders and crew" once these are fixed. CC7567 (talk) 04:29, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
There are a few rather weird capitalizations in the article regarding onboard locations. At a glance, I'm seeing "Officer's mess and lounge" and "Officer's Dining room" in Deck 11. Even if this is how they are capitalized in the source material, it's acceptable to de-capitalize them if the original capitalization is unnecessary—and right now, I'm not seeing the use of those that I just listed. Please thoroughly check the article for this and adjust if necessary.CC7567 (talk) 19:00, February 3, 2014 (UTC)- I'll decapitalize those then. Quick question: should I decapitalize Junior Officer and Senior Officer in the article? 501st dogma(talk) 23:52, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
Is it "Imperial Navy Troopers," "Imperial Navy troopers," or "Imperial Naval Troopers"? Even if all are valid names, please pick one and stick with it throughout the article.- Changed to Imperial Navy trooper throughout, as that is the one used by our article. TFOP wavers between Navy and Naval itself.
- In general, it's usually best to avoid using passive voice where possible, since it tends to mangle common subject/verb/object order. I've adjusted a lot of it in the Bts, so I'd recommend taking a look at the changes I made to get a better sense of it. Also, just so you know… "most likeliest" is redundant. :P
- Had to stop at "The Trap" due to time constraints, so I'll continue there once these are fixed. CC7567 (talk) 05:29, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
When you say "batter options," I assume you mean "latter options," but please check that.- It's supposed to be better. Remedied.
"They can even choose to aid unique items to the pod": I also assume you mean "add" instead of "aid" here, but please check.- Yep, another error, changed. :P
- Overall, good job except for a number of minor errors that got through the radar one way or another. I don't think I can offer any more advice for future articles of this length except to proofread more, and to perhaps also invest in a good copy-editor before nominating a large article like this. CC7567 (talk) 15:56, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
El Jefe
Intro: Context for StarForge Station?- Added.
"after convincing Veshiv to transfer over to the Far Orbit from the CR90 corvette Empire Forever." How so? I don't think noting this would hurt here.- Does that work?
As the name of a starship, shouldn't SPF 14897 be italicized?- The book doesn't italicize it like other ship names there.
Intro: If you link Kenit's task force, then you should probably link the task force that helped the Far Orbit capture Shipment 1037.- Created an article and linked to it.
"and the most common refreshers to service the crew there." Pretty awkward wording. You could just say it "had most of the ship's refreshers" or something.- It's meant to say that the crew only had basic, common refreshers to use. Does that make it any clearer?
Link for autochef?Same with the A/V unit, I guess.- No idea what an A/V unit is, as its only shown in the maps, but created a link for it.
- Will continue. IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 02:57, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
"The laser cannons, on the other hand, were not powerful and only proved efficient when used in concert." Would "effective" be more appropriate here?- Remedied.
Is there any info on how the combat tractor beams were used?- It doesn't specify any info. I assume that they would be used to hold onto enemy ships though.
"were sent to the P-Com on Deck 1 for decryption." What does this stand for? You shouldn't abbreviate something before you've explained what it means.- There.
You're inconsistent with how you capitalize the forward docking tube.- Done.
What do you mean by boom module? Is it explained?- The boom module is the section that links the forward and aft sections together, which is the skinny part on the EF76. In the first sentence of General Information I believe I address that. Does that make it clear?
"and aft of the port workshops was a micro shop and a mech shop." A micro shop?- Utterly no idea what a micro shop is... Text gives no description. :p
"Two pairs of Senior quarters" Why are you capitalizing senior?- It survived my purge of un-necessary capitals. It's dead now.
"The engineering operations station located on the bridge acted as the monitoring station for reports on situations." "Reports on situations" is pretty vague and I don't really think it's needed - you could just say it was a monitoring station.- Will continue with History once these are done. IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 01:53, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
"the Far Orbit was awarded to Imperial officer Vocis Kenit so he could serve as its captain." This is unnecessarily long - you could just say "command of the Far Orbit was awarded to Vocis Kenit."- Done.
"and his ways of maintaining the discipline of his men were quite harsh." Any examples?- No, the book doesn't elaborate on its point there.
Ronnan Tyla Vedij and the Vedij family are obviously quite important since he's assassinated by the Empire - I'd like a little context.- That do it?
"Kenit was skilled and proficient at taking out pirates" Skilled AND proficient is kinda redundant.- Skilled got killed.
"Shortly before 0 ABY," So... 0 BBY? Especially since it's before Alderaan's destruction.- Well, that could be assumed, but its best to leave it as is. They could have taken out the pirates at the end of 1 BBY for example, as there is not exact number of months that pass between the incident and the mutiny.
Maybe a link for the junior officer who got jettisoned with Kenit?- Redlinked - I might create the article later.
"Vedij cleared out the captain's read room," What do you mean by read room?- That's supposed to be ready room. >.>
"and soon thought of a way to finance the Far Orbit in its fight against the Empire." Which was...? You say it later, but the way you set it up here means it should come right after this.- Will continue. IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 03:36, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
Taking of Shipment 1037: You use the phrase "managed to convince" twice right after each other. I'M NITPICKIN'.- Betters?
- "Vedij started to use the black market to acquire certain goods and resources for the frigate," Such as?
- DONE.
In the section "Dealing with Puullo", very little of it is actually about them dealing with Puullo, and Puullo is only mentioned once. A more appropriate title might be needed."- Betterz?
"Because the Far Orbit was eavesdropping on communications, Imperial transmissions became harder to intercept as time elapsed." Clarify this a little - the Imperials knew that the Far Orbit was eavesdropping, correct? How did they find out?Do we need all the information of what exactly every trooper on the SPF 14897 specialized in?"leaving the Far Orbit to reach an empty system nearby." Link for the empty system?- Meh, added.
"where they would pull the Star Galleon and its escort out of hyperspace with some asteroids." And how would they use the asteroids?- That should clarify it
Perhaps a link for the joint committee formed to hunt the Far Orbit?- Will finish the article soon. IFYLOFD (Enter the Floydome) 22:14, April 26, 2014 (UTC)
Comments
Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 23:32, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks to Cav for answering a lot of questions, and for checking sources.
- More of a philosophical question - personally I would say that the more in-depth description of the ship's modular, non-unique features would be better suited to the Nebulon-B article at large, much in the same way that you wouldn't go into Mon Cal physiology on Ackbar's article, especially considering that "The Far Orbit was a standard frigate with no special modification." Essentially, if we do this, then every article on a standard Nebulon-B will have to have the same lengthy and detailed description, which doesn't strike me as being overly wise. Not an objection or anything as I say, just curious as to what the thoughts are on this. Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 03:02, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
- The written up description of the Far Orbit mentions the ships often, and there are a few modifications that make it different, such as the shuttle complement. As for the deckplans, although they are stated in the article as part of an EF76, since it is the Far Orbit Project, it can be assumed that those deck plans are specifically for the Far Orbit itself. There may or may not be areas of the deck plans that vary from other EF76s, though it is stated to have no special modifications, as I have yet to see another set of deck plans. As for every article having this length of description on an EF76, that probably would not happen, as their source probably doesn't provide deck plans for the ship's design. 501st dogma(talk) 11:29, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Good point, although I would argue that perhaps if in future there was a generic overview of a Nebulon-B that echoed the exact stock makeup of the deck plans from the Far Orbit that we would revisit the discussion, for brevity's sake. Much of a muchness at this point though. Thefourdotelipsis (talk) 00:53, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
- The written up description of the Far Orbit mentions the ships often, and there are a few modifications that make it different, such as the shuttle complement. As for the deckplans, although they are stated in the article as part of an EF76, since it is the Far Orbit Project, it can be assumed that those deck plans are specifically for the Far Orbit itself. There may or may not be areas of the deck plans that vary from other EF76s, though it is stated to have no special modifications, as I have yet to see another set of deck plans. As for every article having this length of description on an EF76, that probably would not happen, as their source probably doesn't provide deck plans for the ship's design. 501st dogma(talk) 11:29, October 4, 2013 (UTC)