Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/Charal

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Charal

  • Nominated by: LelalMekha 17:10, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: I'm playing with the big boys now... Let's hope the jocks won't beat me. ;-)

(4 Inqs/3 Users/7 Total)

Support

  1. Inqvote Keep up the good work. Jonjedigrandmaster (Talk) 21:24, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
  2. Very nice. Do Sanyassan next! :) ~SavageBOB sig 22:20, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
  3. That's the stuff!!! :D Plagueis327 02:06, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
  4. Only found one spelling error. Good compilation of sources Enochf (talk) 05:43, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
  5. Inqvote Don't FA her! She's evil! Menkooroo (talk) 21:01, July 10, 2012 (UTC)
  6. Inqvote IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 02:14, July 15, 2012 (UTC)
  7. Inqvote --Eyrezer (talk) 11:10, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Object

Savaged…
  • Charal! OK, first off, be sure that the items listed under "Sources" are organized according to publication date.
    • Fixed, though I'm having trouble with the old Databank entries. They should go at the bottom of the list, I believe? LelalMekha 18:37, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • The old Databank should be listed as if it were published in September 2011, since that's when the Databank disappeared. ~SavageBOB sig 21:43, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
        • Then the list should be all right by now—unless I forgot something. --LelalMekha 21:52, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
  • She appears in A Guide to the Star Wars Universe (Third Edition), but it adds no new information.
  • Skin color (pale, or light) should be added to the infobox and P&T.
  • Does Galaxies provide any rationale for why Charal simply didn't barter passage off world with one of the spacers she interacted with? It seems a key part of her story is that she can't leave Endor and wants to get away, so it's odd she would ask passing spacers to do stuff for her without asking for a ride off the moon. Of course, if Galaxies says nothing of this, perhaps it's worth noting the discrepancy in the BTS.
    • As far as I can tell, Galaxies doesn't address this issue at all. So I just added it to the BtS as you suggested. --LelalMekha 18:45, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
  • Can you specify where Cindel is when she escapes from the Marauders the first time? It's unclear if she does so in the woods or at Terak's keep.
  • The article says Charal called out orders to the Marauders while in raven form. Could she still talk when a raven? If so, perhaps mention this in "Powers and abilities."
    • Well, "Endor and the Moddell Sector" says so, but in game mechanic term. Does that count? Anyway, I only intented to say she was croaking orders, as in speaking in raven cries. LelalMekha 18:37, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • What does she do in the movie? Does she speak Basic as a raven, or just caw like a bird? If all she does is caw, can we know whether she was barking orders or simply making noise? ~SavageBOB sig 21:43, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
        • She's cawing, but you're most definitely right about that, her giving orders must be an involuntary assumption of mine. I'll change it immediately. --LelalMekha 21:52, June 1, 2012 (UTC)
  • In the "Legacy" section, you have the Death Star blow up before Wicket meets Leia. Could you reorganize the paragraph in chronological order?
  • Can you indicate that the New Republic is the successor to the Rebel Alliance?
  • There are plenty of images of Charal to be had; rather than the image of Palpatine, would it be possible to include another of the witch herself? Perhaps an image of her in raven form, since there isn't one currently in the article?

That's all. Very nice work, Lelal! ~SavageBOB sig 17:47, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

The Witch
  • Here we go! Review time. I'm wondering if the "(Dathomiri)" is necessary in the species field of the infobox. It pipelinks to Witches of Dathomir, which isn't a species. It's a Force sect, and "(Jedi Order)" would never go in the species field of an infobox. It's also a bit confusing because Dathomirian is an actual species, of which Charal is not a member. But right now, it kind of looks like the infobox is saying that she is a Dathomirian.
    • Damn Clone Wars. Fixed. --LelalMekha (talk) 19:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
      • Not seeing a change here...
        • Oops. Done for real, this time. --LelalMekha (talk) 21:07, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • Last year, we figured out that the 1.5 ABY date for Galaxies was actually speculation. All we know for sure is that it's at some point after the Battle of Yavin but before the Battle of Hoth. If you want to use actual dating (0 BBY and 3 ABY), it might be a good idea to source The New Essential Chronology too.
    • I fixed the "1.5 AB" references to "sometime after the Battle of Yavin". The 3.5 ABY, however, relies on Behind the Magic, which is already sourced. --LelalMekha (talk) 19:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't think the first mention of Terak's quest for "The Power" is chronologically correct. The Battle for Endor and Terak's Databank entry reveal that the Power is actually the "power of the stars," or the ability to travel through space. Terak wants it because he's desperate to leave Endor. So it shouldn't be mentioned until the Marauders are already stranded on the moon.
    • As a matter of fact, this bothers me as well. But I felt kind of "forced" to add it because of that bit of info you gave me from the SW Insider: His quest for "The Power" is what caused him to forge his alliance with Charal. But... we know his alliance was forged before being stranded. Should I just handwave that comment? I just removed it in the meantime. --LelalMekha (talk) 19:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
    • Not only did I remove the problematic statement, but I also wrote a paragaph addressing this continuity issue in the BtS. --LelalMekha (talk) 20:23, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
      • So Illustrated Star Wars Universe states that they forged an alliance before crashing? In that case, yeah, good job on putting it in the BTS. I'm just not sure if "as newer sources tend to override older ones in case of continuity issues" can be stated without being sourced to something. It would probably be OK if you just said about the CSWE: "...as it's the newer source." Menkooroo (talk) 20:58, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • I'd also like the article to explicitly spell out what "the power" is, and how Terak learned of it (from Salak). If you don't mind a little bit of shameless self-promotion, see here for an example. :D
    • See what I did and tell me if it's satisfying. --LelalMekha (talk) 19:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • More to come soon! Menkooroo (talk) 19:10, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
    • Not too much more, I hope. ;-) --LelalMekha (talk) 19:50, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • "During her life on her homeworld, Charal was also taught horsemanship—unlike many Nightsisters, she rode a black stallion instead of a carnivorous rancor." This statement is sourced to The Battle for Endor. Can we really say that she was taught to ride a horse on Dathomir just because we see her riding one on Endor? She's stranded on Endor for quite a long time. It also seems like speculation to say that she definitely didn't ride a Rancor, if there's no source stating that she didn't. Menkooroo (talk) 20:58, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
    • In fact, it is a bit complicated. In fact, as I noted in Charal's stallion: "In the 2001 reference book The Wildlife of Star Wars: A Field Guide, it was stated that some Nightsisters favored horses over rancors, and that both the rider and her steed were capable shape-changing." --LelalMekha (talk) 21:07, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
      • That sounds fair. Can you source the sentence to both Battle for Endor and Wildlife, then? It's a case where information from both sources is synthesized to make the sentence. Also, since we're making the logical deduction that Wildlife is talking about Charal, do you think that book should get an (Indirect mention only) nod in the "Sources" section? Let me know what you think. Menkooroo (talk) 18:31, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
        • I edited the article according to your suggestion and added "The Wildlife of SW" to the sources (with "indirect mention only"). --LelalMekha (talk) 18:41, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • The infobox is missing a parameter from here --- normally I'd take care of this under the {{sofixit}} clause, but ensuring that the infobox is complete is a really good habit into which to get.
  • The first sentence of "Personality and traits" is sourced to Battle for Endor, but I don't think that her height of 1.77 metres comes from the film.
    • Fixed (it comes from the databank of course). --LelalMekha (talk) 23:15, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • In that same sentence, "Charal was an imposing Human" and "with a proud bearing" are currently sourced to Battle for Endor. That's not a very neutral point of view, especially if it's just making judgments based on what we see in the film.
    • "Proud bearing" is POV, so it has been removed. "Imposing figure" is now sourced. --LelalMekha (talk) 23:15, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • The intro says that she stole a starship to leave Dathomir, but the Biography makes no mention of that ship. Is the intro in error, or does that info come from somewhere?
    • The mention of a ship in the intro was quite obviously speculative, albeit quite logical. I've removed it. --LelalMekha (talk) 23:15, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • To be honest, I think the narrative suffers a little by using the Battle of Endor as a reference point when it's still one hundred years away. Statements like that have always struck me as being a little out-of-universe. I think that flat-out stating "In 96 BBY" would be better.
  • "Charal styled herself as the Witch-Queen of Endor and made use of a dimwitted Trandoshan slave named "Lizardman" to assist her." is currently sourced to Battle for Endor --- surely that should be Galaxies?
    • This article has been rewritten so many times... This must have escaped my vigilance. Fixed. --LelalMekha (talk) 23:15, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm also not too sure about introducing Lizardman so early in the bio. We haven't gotten to 26 BBY yet at this point, and if all we know is that he was serving her in ~1.5 ABY, it might be more realistic to introduce him closer to the Galaxies stuff.
  • "Once Charal heard of the discovery, she raided the crashed ship and destroyed the wreckage to ensure that the scholar would find nothing else. Szingo, intent on revenge, ordered the spacer to kill the Marauders who had performed this act of treachery. When the offworlder did so," --- Who did the spacer kill? The previous sentence says that Charal performed the act of treachery. Were there some Marauders who did it with her?
    • It is now mentioned that "Once Charal heard of the discovery, she raided the crashed ship with a few Sanyassan henchmen". --LelalMekha (talk) 23:15, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • Since Galaxies places itself between 0 BBY and 3 ABY, I think this article should do the same --- no reason not to give the most approximate date possible if we can. Menkooroo (talk) 22:51, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
  • Going back to the intro for a moment --- the fact that Charal leaves Dathomir is mentioned twice in the first two sentences. Since the intro acts a concise summary of the article, repeating a fact seems a bit off. Can you have a go at rewording it --- but still trying to keep the two paragraphs roughly the same length?
  • Charal's stallion is pipelinked at the beginning of the biography to the stallion that Charal rides on Dathomir. I don't think this is correct, unless there's a source stating that she brought a horse with her when she fled the planet and that it lived for 100 years. I think it would be more correct to pipelink it way down when Charal disguises herself as the young witch.
  • "Charal participated in the fighting in bird form, flying around the battlefield." If she didn't do anything except fly around, then it doesn't sound like she actually "participated" in the battle per se. Did she like... fly into any Ewok faces or anything? Or was she more of an observer?
    • Now says: "Charal observed the fighting in bird form, flying around the battlefield." --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
  • I think the first paragraph of "Legacy" goes into a little too much detail on the Rebels and their plans for the Battle of Endor. To keep things focused on Charal, can you trim it down and only get across what needs to be said in order to establish why Leia meets Wicket? Even the fact that the Alliance wins the battle seems a bit extraneous to Charal's legacy, I think.
    • I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree on this one. I had a hard time writing this subsection; the first draft of "Legacy" was actually much shorter, but I could see people coming and commenting: "Context, context, context!" So I made it as it now appears. And even like that, I was actually asked to add even more context. Also, if I trimmed it, this would make the Legacy subsection ridiculously small, perhaps even "useless". --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
      • "A few months after the Ewoks defeated the Sanyassans, members of the Rebel Alliance sought to destroy the Death Star. Before engaging the battlestation from space, the Rebels needed to disable its shield generator on the surface of the moon." This passage in particular is what stuck out as going into too much non-Charal-related detail. I think it could be condensed into one sentence and still say everything that needs to be said. Can you give it a try? Currently, Charal is only mentioned once in that first paragraph, near the end, and there's a lot of leadup to it that kind of ventures into irrelevant territory. Menkooroo (talk) 20:30, July 10, 2012 (UTC)
        • There, I gave it a try. This isn't spectacular, though (now one sentence instead of two, but only threen lines instead of four): "A few months after the defeat of Charal and the Sanyassans, members of the Rebel Alliance sought to destroy the Death Star, so they came to Endor in order to disable its shield generator." --LelalMekha (talk) 20:48, July 10, 2012 (UTC)
          • Perfect. I added a leading quote for "Behind the scenes," see what you think. Menkooroo (talk) 21:01, July 10, 2012 (UTC)
  • I think there's some more that could go into "Personality and traits" --- her delusions of grandeur, her powerplays and constant attempts to subvert Terak and Szingo...
    • Let me see what you think. --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
  • "She was a martial artist proficient with all kinds of weapons" --- that's worded a bit awkwardly, as martial arts/unarmed combat is combat without weapons.
  • Is there a source that says she's definitely locked in her raven form forever? Her databank entry says she "may be" locked in it forever.
    • Yes. Now fixed. The forever is in fact from "The Essential Guide to Characters". --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
  • The third paragraph of "Behind the scenes" --- what makes her indirect mention in Book of Sith more notable than any of the other sources that mention her? There doesn't seem to be anything really noteworthy in that paragraph.
    • I thought it was noteworthy because, according to his notes, Dan Wallace created the Talismans of Transformation specifically with Charal in mind. I clarified this bit in the BtS if it helps. --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, if she's indirectly mentioned in Book of Sith... why isn't it in her "Sources" section?
    • Added. (As "indirect mention only".) --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
  • I think that's all I have. Great job! None of my beefs were with grammar or wording --- are you sure English isn't your first language? :D Just a quick note: I removed two categories, as Category:Dathomiri and Category:Dark Jedi are both already covered within Category:Nightsisters. Menkooroo (talk) 05:26, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
    • Mesa akxsepten yousa complimentation with muy muy humility. ;-) --LelalMekha (talk) 09:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 11:10, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

  • Siân Phillips is one of the actors interviewed in Return to Endor, an article that was published in Star Wars Insider 62. The article should be added to Charal's "Sources" list and checked for potential behind-the-scenes information. I'm putting this in the "Comments" section rather than making it an objection because it might take more than three weeks to track down the info; I asked Axinal in April for some info from the article, but no response yet. User:Xwing328 also has the Insider issue --- maybe you can ask him to check for you? If you do, could you also ask him what it says about Noa Briqualon? Thanks. :) Menkooroo 00:26, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
    • Oh, dear! An I thought I had read everything on the subject... I'll try and see if I can find this myself, or ask Xwing328. Thanks for the tip.--LelalMekha 10:44, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
      • Now this issue is settled, feel free to review the article itself if you have time, Menkooroo. ;-) I certainly wouldn't refuse the opportunity of another inq vote on this one... --LelalMekha 11:34, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
  • Some potential new info from Who's Who in Star Wars Galaxies: "On a forest moon where the strong survive, Terak is king. Terak rules the Marauders by virtue of his size and strength; he is taller and more powerful than any of them. But Terak has also forged an alliance with the shapeshifting Dathomiri witch Charal. There is a subtle balance of power between Terak and Charal, and both use every opportunity they can to gain the upper hand. ... His quest for "The Power" is what caused him to forge his alliance with Charal." The emphasis is mine, but what I bolded in particular seems juicy. Menkooroo (talk) 04:12, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
    • Thanks. I'll do my best to integrate this piece of info into the article. I'll see to it tonight.--LelalMekha (talk) 11:44, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
  • Fact File 123 explicitly calls Charal "evil," if that's worth anything. It also states that she "uses her Force-witch magic" to attempt to draw power from the oscillator, and that after the battle, she swoops down to the scene to reclaim her ring before flying off (add that to the Talisman's article too!) --- does that happen in the film itself, or will you need to cite the fact file for it? And here's the kicker: "Her subsequent whereabouts remain unknown." Although that sort of sentence is usually frowned upon in a Wook article, it's fair game when it's explicitly stated in a source!
    • I'll see to it right now. I have this FF issue in French, so I'll compare with what you just told me.--LelalMekha (talk) 14:04, July 4, 2012 (UTC)
  • I think that's all the additional sources I'm going to find. Is she definitely not mentioned or pictured in Behind the Magic? Bob might know. Menkooroo (talk) 13:56, July 4, 2012 (UTC)
    • As far as I recall, she was certainly not pictured in BTM (which I still possess), and no new info are given. --LelalMekha (talk) 14:04, July 4, 2012 (UTC)