Wookieepedia:Featured article nominations/CT-7719

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a featured article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

CT-7719

• Nominated by: Demos Traxen (talk) 18:10, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
• Nomination comments:

(3 Inqs/5 Users/8 Total)

Support

1. The richest clone in the galaxy. ~Savage 12:11, October 4, 2012 (UTC)
2. Good work JangFett ^(Talk) 13:55, October 4, 2012 (UTC)
3. Great work. I paid the seven bucks for this comic only to end up adding two sentences to Bultar Swan. Glad to see someone getting more use out of it than I did. :P Menkooroo (talk) 12:10, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
4. @Menkooroo: :D Clone Commander Lee ^Talk 12:12, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
5. Cade Calrayn 04:39, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
6. Plagueis327 (talk) 01:17, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
7. Nahdar Vebb (talk) 11:32, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
8. CC7567 ^(talk) 20:30, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Object

Cade

1. • Get rid of the redirects.
     • Done.
   • Nothing is sourced.
     • I thought I had done this. Done.
   • Where is the Behind the Scenes section?
     • Done.
   • As a clone, there is a lot more biological info you can get for the infobox.
     • Got it. Done.
   • That intro likely needs to be longer. Cade Calrayn 18:17, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
     • Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 18:46, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Savaged…

• Glad to see a nomination from you! It takes a while to get used to everything, so be patient and you'll see the article pass eventually. First thing's first: Whenever you add quotes to an article, there has to be a quote at the very top of the article, right under the infobox. I'd suggest moving one of the body-text quotes up to the top and then finding another quote for that slot if possible.
  • Thanks! Got this fixed - Unfortunately, Banks doesn't get many good lines, so I don't think there's another one to move into the body.
• Can you clarify the dates in the intro? It makes it sound like was created in 22 BBY, but I think you mean that is the first year of the war. I'd move the date reference down to the mention of "First year of the war" instead.
  • Hope this is better now.
• You can probably get away with only one paragraph for the intro, since the first paragraph is only two sentences long.
  • Done.
• In the lead, "the Oznek" needs context and a link. By that, you mean the Toma, right?
  • Fixed.
• Be sure that everything you mention in the infobox is also mentioned in the body of the article. For instance, you can give Banks's height, hair color, and skin color in the "Personality and traits" section.
  • Done.
• On that note, you should add skin color to the infobox.
  • Done.
• HIs hair looks brown, not black, to me.
  • It does, indeed... As a clone character, I figured we had to chalk that up to the colorist's choices, because I thought assuming it was dyed wouldn't be a wise move.
    • Don't make that assumption; just say it was brown. The colorist made it brown, so we can't assume that it wasn't, or that's just as speculative in my opinion. ~Savage 12:32, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
      • Done.
• You can perhaps go into some other detail about his physical appearance in "Personality and traits." He seems to have scars on his face, for instance. What kind of haircut did he have? What did his armor look like? These are important concerns since clones distinguished themselves through hair and armor deco.
  • Done, I think.
• The "Biography" veers into play-by-play territory in a few places. For instance, the opening conversation between Banks, Sykes, and Ghost shouldn't be recounted line by line. Instead, just say something to the effect that Banks had trouble with his squad early on since he felt they were unprofessional or whatever, and mention the couple of salient details that later come into play with Banks's character growth. Similarly, after they destroy the first droid onslaught, just give us the highlights: they regroup, ask Banks about his name, he shoots, they get the array working. Then, don't give us a line-by-line recounting of Banks and Kishpaugh's conversation, just the gist of it.
  • Building off of what you'd already done, I think this is completely fixed now.
    • Maybe?
      • I still think there's lots of play-by-play to be reduced. Like the part about Banks removing his helmet, then this guy commented, then this other guy laughed, then Banks said this... Gloss over this to give us the important points without the line-by-line explanation of what was said. It's an art, not a science, so give it another shot. :) ~Savage 03:17, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
      • By the way, I tried to do some of this on my last copy edit, as a guide. But I left the part about taking off Banks's helmet alone. Maybe compare its level of detail to some of the other areas where you and I have glossed more if you need pointers. ~Savage 11:11, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
        • I think we should be good now.--Demos Traxen (talk) 17:53, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
• Watch the refs - you only use the {{Ref| tags in the infobox, not the body. A body ref should look something like this: <ref name="xyz" />.
  • Fixed.
• The clone eaten by the animal - do we know his name? He should get an article one way or the other. Similarly, the creature that eats him should have an article for its type (not the individual member of the species but the species itself).
  • Fixed, added.
• The conversation about customized or battle-scarred armor is important to Banks's later character change, granted, but cut down the detail severely in Bio.
  • Done.
• The ancient city ruins should receive a link and an article.
  • Done.
• The Toma's leader needs to be linked and given an article.
  • Done.
• I don't understand the bit about Cutter saying the Toma can't live. Did he intend to kill them or something? Why did that prompt Banks to leave him behind?
  • Done.
• Are the guards of the facility droids or Toma?
  • Fixed.
• The battle between Banks and Ghost can be pared down a bit so it's not a play-by-play recounting of their fight and conversation. Just give us the gist.
  • Done.
• "before the Toma caught up to him." The Toma were chasing them? This is the first we learn of this.
  • Clarified.
  • Fixed.
• The power plant and the pilot droid in the story each have their own articles; you should track them down and link them.
  • Fixed
    • Still no link for the pilot droid that I can see. It's Z-37, I believe. ~Savage 12:32, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
• The confrontation between Banks and Kishpaugh should be glossed over a bit more so it's not a line-by-line recount of what they say to each other.
  • Pretty glossy now.
• The snow-covered planet should get a link and an article, even if it's just as Unidentified snow-covered planet.
  • Fixed.
• I think the quote in "Personality and traits" got clipped somehow. Can you check it again?
  • I don't think so... Unless you mean the next word bubble from Banks. I guess we could include that too.
    • Sorry, I mean the quote here: "It's just mathematics. Same training we all, only I can see the angles better than most." "Same training we all" what? It looks like some words are missing. ~Savage 23:52, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
      • Ah, got it. "Had". Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 01:30, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
• I don't think Banks is mentioned by name in the Databank, so that shouldn't be listed as a source for his article. (Keep in mind that listing something in "Notes and references" does not mean it must necessarily also be listed under "Appearances" or "Sources." Those are reserved for explicit mentions of the subject of the article.) ~Savage 16:07, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
  • Fixed as well. I wasn't aware of this, and I'm pretty sure I've done this in other articles. Thanks for the clarification.--Demos Traxen (talk) 18:55, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
• OK, a bit more. Droid army is a redirect to Droid Army, which is a disambiguation page. Can you figure out which droid army is appropriate and link to it directly?
  • Got it.
• "Wielding two blaster pistols, Banks and the other clones fought..." This makes it sound like they only had two blaster pistols among them. Can you rephrase?
  • Fixed
• I'm not sure of the link between Cutter saying he's going to kill the Toma and Banks deciding to leave Cutter behind. Is it because Banks doesn't want to be part of killing the Toma?
  • Done. "...due to the allotted time frame."
• "He then asked General Swan to no longer use his clone designation and instead to refer to him as Banks." Can you give some temporal context here? Anything: during a battle, on a snowy day, etc. ~Savage 03:17, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
  • Done.
• OK, one last pass! Get rid of the assertion that he dyed his hair. I don't think we can assume that since, for all we know, the Kaminoans created a strain of Jango clones with lighter hair or something. Just say he had brown hair, note the discrepancy from other clones if you think it pertinent, and be done with it. ~Savage 11:50, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
  • Argh. I didn't put that in there, so I was loath to take it out, but it's gone now.--Demos Traxen (talk) 18:31, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Jangston

• I took care of some issues in the infobox for you—missing {{Ref}} tag and you sourced the name. Please pay close attention in the future.
  • I appreciate it.
• As a clone of Jango, his hair color should be black—or now, originally black—so before mentioning that he dyed his hair brown, you could add Black in the infobox and source it to AOTC, or any source depicting Jango and clones. I only advised AOTC because of previous status articles using it.
  • Fixed, hope this settles the discrepancies.
    • Yeah, but now it's missing that source. JangFett ^(Talk) 01:33, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • Ha. Got it.
• I am unfamiliar with the source, albeit I know how TCW works, but does it mention that the events of the book take place in 22 BBY?
  • Yeah, at the beginning of the comic, it cites the time frame.
• Just to let you know, you do not have to pipelink links to lower case them. I.e, [[Planet/Legends|planet]]. You can just say [[Planet/Legends|planet]]. I hope this makes sense.
  • It does, thanks.
    • Be sure to look out for this in the future. My copy-edit shows the removal of them :P JangFett ^(Talk) 01:33, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
• Is there enough information for Banks' mission? If so, possibly you could create an article.
  • All the information on the mission is basically his biography, since the comic was really all about him. I'll still make one happen. Done.
    • Yeah, no problem. It could work since that would be about the mission and this article is about Banks. JangFett ^(Talk) 01:33, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
• A lot of the dialogue in the first section is rather play-by-play. Basically you could briefly mention their discussion in the bio, but could go into greater detail in Banks' P&T, if it's all related to him. See what you could do to fix this.
• "Syke then asked Ghost for a story of his own to explain a point of damage on the back of his own helmet, but the older clone demurred. Banks pointed out that they could all ask for their armor to be repaired, or even receive new armor, but Syke held that a clone's armor was a way of telling a unique and individual story. He asked Banks why they would ever want to throw that away. The Sergeant had no answer" Same as above.
  • Done, for both. I hope.--Demos Traxen (talk) 17:53, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
    • "When Banks pulled off his helmet to clean it, one of the clones under his command, Syke, mocked him. Banks admonished Syke, informing him of the proper regulations and threatening him with being forced to write an in-depth report on regulation protocols. Another clone, Ghost, then asked Banks if he had ever been in the field and faced enemy fire before; Banks admitted that he had not." I know it might suck, but stuff like this should be placed in the P&T, and not in the bio. Basically any sort of character development or anything important to him/her needs to be placed in the P&T. The bio is basically an overview of his life and he had done. (I hope that makes sense; there are tutorials about this in the FAN page above). Basically, you could section the P&T into what he looks like, armor, and then go into what he had done with his life, who are his friends, his interactions, ect. I have a objection before that could greatly help the P&T. JangFett ^(Talk) 01:33, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • Done. I think I got the hang of it this time. I get what you mean about not excluding information, but rather just making it work in the article in a more cohesive fashion.
        • Yes, that's what's needed, especially the image in the P&T. Well done with that. See below now. JangFett ^(Talk) 03:13, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
• "Banks and the others fled" See what you could do to merge this short choppy sentence with the previous sentence.
  • Fixed.--Demos Traxen (talk) 17:15, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
• More to come. JangFett ^(Talk) 05:45, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
• I feel that with the given information we know about him in the bio, his P&T could be greatly expanded. Parts of the play-by-play information that I've read had bits that were related to Banks and could be placed within the P&T. I could go into further detail if you like, but basically take a look at your entire article.
  • Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 01:56, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
    • "As a clone fresh out of his training on Kamino, Banks was a stickler for rules and regulations, including keeping his weapons and armor clean at all times." You mentioned this prior to this. Double check your entire P&T to see if you haven't left anything out. Don't be afraid to get specific, such as when he used his mathematical abilities, and when the two clones questioned his motives aboard the LAAT. JangFett ^(Talk) 03:13, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
      • Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 18:33, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

A friend of Bultar Swan is a friend of mine

• Does The Enemy Within mention that he was born on Kamino? "Homeworld: Kamino" is sourced to The Enemy Within in the infobox, but the biography sources that fact to the Databank.
  • Fixed.
• A tip about categories: To avoid redundancy, you don't need to include Category:Humans, as Category:Clone troopers is a subcategory of Category:Humans and already covers that fact.
  • Done, thanks for the heads up.
• In "Personality and traits:" "born with fair skin and eyes, and black hair, which later appeared brown." is sourced to The Enemy Within, but the black hair bit should use the same sourcing as the infobox does. Also, shouldn't it say "brown eyes" ?
  • You're right. It originally did—though I'd say Jango's skin is dark—but it's fixed now.
• A comment about the image placement: There's no hard-and-fast rule about it, but the images should roughly match up with the text to which they correspond. Currently, the picture of Banks on Oznek is used in "Early life," which is one section before the section that describes his mission to Oznek, and the picture of him killing Ghost comes about six paragraphs before it actually happens in the text, as does the picture of him arresting Kishpaugh. You might want to consider moving around the images, and possibly swapping some out for some new ones. Play around a bit and see what you think.
  • I originally had a lot less images so that they matched up better, but more were requested, so I hope it's okay the way it is now.
    • It's a bit jarring to have the images so far disconnected from the text which they represent. I think some reshuffling (and possibly replacing some of the images) is in order --- the images of him killing Ghost, arresting Kishpaugh, and standing trial would all work near the end of "Mission to Oznek," but placing the former two so much earlier in the section is a bit misleading and, arguably, innacurate. The first half of "Mission to Oznek" would be better peppered with images from the first half of the mission. I have some scans of the comic if you need me to upload anything. The image in "Early life" would be a great candidate for the first half of "Mission to Oznek," but as he doesn't actually go on any missions in the "early life" section, it currently seems a bit misplaced. A generic image of Banks with a generic caption is one idea for the "early life" section. Feel free to be creative --- I don't want to try to tell you what images to use, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say in that generally, images should line up with (or come close to lining up with) the text that they represent. Does that make sense? Menkooroo (talk) 03:31, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
      • I think this should be much better now.
        • Great! Just one more and then I'm done: The article is pretty image-heavy now --- I think it could do to lose one of the ones in the bio and be less crowded. I recommend the Ghost dying one, since it still comes a few paragraphs too early and doesn't depict Banks, but obviously the decision is yours. :) Menkooroo (talk) 02:04, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
          • Done!--Demos Traxen (talk) 16:26, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
• As it's the source of his name and a pretty definitive characteristic, do you think his unique laser-banking ability deserves a quick mention in the intro?
  • True. Done.
• Any quotes for "Early life" and "Aftermath and reassignment" ? His line about the seventy-two successful simulations he commanded would fit for the former; and any of his dialogue from the tribunal or with Bultar for the latter.
  • Good idea. Done.
    • Nice. Can you add the previous line in to the "Early life" one? It's a bit confusing without knowing what the question is that Ghost asked him. Menkooroo (talk) 04:08, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
      • Done.
• The word "Human" doesn't appear anywhere outside of the infobox or categories --- probably worth mentioning in the Biography that Jango was a Human, in order to make it clear that Banks is, too.
  • Done.
• There probably isn't enough information for a full-on "Equipment" section, but it might be worth adding some sentences to "Personality and traits" about the kind of equipment he used --- what kind of armor, what kind of blaster, any other weapons he used, etc.
  • Done.
• "although he differentiated himself by painting his armor with yellow designs." Are we sure he painted that custom? Isn't that the standard color scheme for a Clone trooper sergeant? Menkooroo (talk) 09:33, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
  • You're right. I think it's much more green than yellow. Fixed.--Demos Traxen (talk) 19:55, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
    • Good fix, but it'll need to be changed in "Personality and traits" too. Menkooroo (talk) 04:08, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
      • Good catch. Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 15:50, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

Attack of the Clone

• Great to see you on the FAN! Just because this is your first nomination, I'm going to be highlighting some minor issues that I normally fix myself to make you aware of them for the future.
• His squad should be linked, even if it's a conjectural title like CT-7719's squad, similar to Slick's platoon. Since it would be linked in the intro, it would also require an article.
• The fact that the initial mission was to destroy a droid factory isn't mentioned in the bio, only the intro. Please clarify.
  • Done.
• "While he was forced to face a tribunal following the mission, Banks was later reassigned under the command of Jedi General Bultar Swan." Nitpicky: the use of "while" opens the possibility that the first clause (the tribunal) and the second clause (his reassignment) were concurrent, which they weren't. I would suggest rewording for clarity (maybe with "After"?).
  • Done.
• The gunship's clone pilot should have an article.
  • Upon carefully re-reading the comic, it appears that Crazy Legs is the pilot. Fixed to reflect this.
• The Oznek droid command center should have a specific article as well.
  • It does, but not in the first part. I figured that upon reaching the facility, it should be linked, rather than deceiving readers a la Kishpaugh.
    • I meant that the specific command center on Oznek needs to have an article and be linked, instead of the general "Command Center" article—the latter can be linked as well, but an article for the specific Oznek facility is also necessary. Also, it needs to be linked in the intro where appropriate. CC7567 ^(talk) 00:03, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
      • There is no droid command center on Oznek, though. It was Kishpaugh's cover for trying to get the clones to destroy the Oznek facility.--Demos Traxen (talk) 00:32, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
        • Oops; apologies. CC7567 ^(talk) 00:35, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
• The fourth paragraph of "Mizzion to Oznek" seems to be rather dialogue-heavy. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the biography should only incorporate dialogue that's relevant to the biography; anything else can be mentioned in the P&T, or simply not mentioned at all. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether this dialogue is worth keeping in the bio, but I just want to make sure you're aware about notability and such; we don't need to mention every single detail from source material in an article.
  • If it's alright, I think I'd like to keep this small part of dialogue in the article. It really goes to show the character of Banks in context with the rest of the story.
• "The clones remarked that their scanners had not picked up any trace of the large settlement": what large settlement? There isn't any mentioned until here, so it's a little unclear what's going on. Please provide some more context.
  • It's the ancient ruins mentioned in the previous sentence.
• {{Fact}} tag in the article.
  • Got it.
• "Banks resisted the plan, unwilling to leave Cutter behind, but Cutter pointed out that their presence could not be revealed, so the Toma could not be allowed to live either." Nitpicking, but truly speaking one can't really "resist" a plan. It might be better to say something like he "refused" the proposal.
  • Fixed.
• "Although Banks attempted to reason with Ghost—arguing that they should help stop wars, not start them": what's this about starting wars? Context is needed here. That would also tie in to why their mission is "off the books," if I remember the comic right.
  • Fixed.
    • Could the addition be worded a little better? The clause "which would then draw Oznek into the Clone Wars on the side of the CIS" specifically refers to the power plant with the current sentence structure, which isn't clear; I believe you mean to say that "if the Republic was framed for destroying the power planet, then Oznek would get drawn into the war," etc. I would recommend wording it that way or something similar so that it's clear what you're referring to. CC7567 ^(talk) 00:03, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
• The same paragraph ("Ghost nonchalantly…") as well as the next paragraph are a bit play-by-play, with a lot of the same sentence structure ("this happened…, but something else happened"). Please try to vary the wording some.
  • Fixed?
• "Banks deactivated Ghost's bombs": what bombs? First time they're mentioned; it would be better to chronologically introduce them when Ghost plants them.
  • Fixed.
• "Banks told Kishpaugh to surrender, but the Commander refused, noting that the clone had no weapon. Banks then threw Ghost's helmet at Kishpaugh, smashing his hand backward and forcing his blaster to fire and destroy his own pilot droid. Banks tackled the Commander and, after a crash landing, turned him over to Republic custody." This also gets a little PBP, with each sentence starting with "Banks" and not that much structure variation. Could you find a way to ease the choppiness a bit to improve sentence flow?
  • Potentially fixed as well.
• Per Forum:CT:Punctuation in image captions, image captions should only be punctuated if they're complete sentences. Please check to make sure the article adheres to this policy.
  • Removed them all, as they were all of the same structure.--Demos Traxen (talk) 20:14, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • Some of the captions are complete sentences and do require punctuation; specifically, the caption for "Banks and swan.PNG" is the only one that isn't a complete sentence, and is therefore the only one that doesn't need punctuation. Please rectify. CC7567 ^(talk) 00:03, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
      • Sorry, I misunderstood&mdashfixed now.--Demos Traxen (talk) 17:28, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
• Pretty good for your first article. Let me know if you have any questions about my objections and I'd be happy to explain them. CC7567 ^(talk) 19:31, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Nahdar

• I don't think this review still matters, but it's better to have one more than not to have it.
• You use the same phrase twice: "When the Clone Wars broke out in 22 BBY". Perhaps you could alter one.
  • One in the intro and one in the body; I think that should be okay.
• This is an article, not the retelling of the story. In my opinion, you should already state it in the beginning of the Oznek part that there was a conspiracy ongoing.
  • I think it's alright the way it is. It seems to flow much better this way, rather than jamming the conspiracy into the beginning.
• Nothing against many images, but I think there are too many of them now, when the left one ends, the right one starts, when the right one ends, the left one starts. Perhaps you could take out the one with the gunship shot down. (I didn't find a policy on that, so it's on you.)
• But I found a policy that states images "should not interrupt the flow or the aesthetics of the article". On my screen, both File:Bankscleans.png and File:Banksontrial.png interrupt with a heading on the left side, pushing the headings inward.
  • I'll change them if there's more objections, but this was already gone over in previous sections.
• In the second last part of "Personality and traits", you use the word "adapted" twice. Perhaps you could exchange one of them.
  • I assume you meant "adopted". I still think the phrasing is okay.
• There still a redirect: Separatist. (No typo improvements suggested the German) Nahdar Vebb (talk) 21:47, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Fixed.--Demos Traxen (talk) 23:44, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Featured article by Inquisitorius 20:30, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

• Did you happen to read the nomination rules? 1358 ^(Talk) 18:14, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
  • I did, and I'm working to improve my work, using the suggestions above.--Demos Traxen (talk) 18:49, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
• More pictures of Banks would be good. Only one has him in it. 501st dogma^(talk) 18:31, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
  • Good idea. Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 19:03, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
    • That looks better. I've reduced all their sizes to 200px, so the images don't crowd out each other. Good luck on your nom. 501st dogma^(talk) 19:08, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
• Forgot to mention this but could we get the title of the comic in the bts? JangFett ^(Talk) 13:59, October 4, 2012 (UTC)
  • Done.--Demos Traxen (talk) 19:26, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
• One more Inquisitor? Please?--Demos Traxen (talk) 16:23, October 19, 2012 (UTC)