- The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a comprehensive article nomination that was unsuccessful. Please do not modify it.
Lost Twenty
- Nominated by: VDO talk 19:24, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Nomination comments: Short and simple. VDO talk 19:24, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
(1 ECs/1 Users/2 Total)
Support
Imperators II(Talk) 20:20, January 21, 2016 (UTC)- <-Omicron(Leave a message at the BEEP!) 03:05, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
Object
Imperators II
Episode II should be added to the Appearances section together with the {{Del}} tag.It appears to me that the whole "Date established" field should be referenced with that note, not just the part "prior to the Clone Wars".Imperators II(Talk) 19:39, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
Cwedin
- The references in the article body should be consolidated: "…throughout its history.[1] One notable and the twentieth member of the Lost Twenty was the Sith Lord Count Dooku,[1]…" shouldn't need that first "[1]," etc.
- Could you add an author for Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know?
- Good job, the article looks great! Cwedin(talk) 23:20, February 3, 2016 (UTC)
Comments
- Just a little preliminary question before voting: why does it say that the term "Lost Twenty" was established after the Battle of Naboo? Surely we don't know when it was first used. --LelalMekha (talk) 20:38, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Considering there were 20 total members, and it's the Lost "twenty", it could not have been used until after Dooku (the 20th member) left the Jedi, which (per Ultimate Star Wars) was after the Battle of Naboo. As well, as seen in Episode II, it had to have been before the Clone Wars started since Dooku was already commemorated in a statue form by then, hence the reference in that establishment date in the infobox. VDO talk 20:41, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I'd remove that. It's entirely possible that there was a "Lost Nineteen" before that, which wouldn't count as its own separate entity, just a different name for the same thing. So I'd just go with "prior to the Clone Wars." - Brandon Rhea(talk) 20:43, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I tend to agree with Brandon here. That's what my remark aimed at. --LelalMekha (talk) 20:48, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Well, likewise, it's entirely possible they didn't have a name for the other group of 19 before Dooku, until Dooku made it 20 and they decided to name it; as you said we simply have no idea. What we do know, definitively, is that Dooku was the 20th member and we only ever have had a group called the "Lost Twenty" (even in Legends) given to us, so the "Lost Twenty" could not have been established until after he left, which is what the infobox is referring to. To answer your original question (why does it say that the term "Lost Twenty" was established after the Battle of Naboo? Surely we don't know when it was first used.), we do know when the term Lost Twenty was used or at least when it came about. VDO talk 20:50, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Likewise it is possible, yes, but our assumption means you wouldn't be including relatively-speculative info while yours means you would be. It definitely should be removed. It's not like a date projection where we can just use simple math. This is assuming the conception of a term/concept. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 20:54, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- You're assuming there ever was a "Lost Nineteen" or something similar and, based on that speculation, I should remove what we do know. I'm not assuming anything. We know that Dooku was the 20th member of a title/group called the Lost 'Twenty'. This tells us that this group called the Lost Twenty were not commemorated as such (as Lost 'Twenty') until Dooku's departure, which is all the article is saying. VDO talk 21:07, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Likewise it is possible, yes, but our assumption means you wouldn't be including relatively-speculative info while yours means you would be. It definitely should be removed. It's not like a date projection where we can just use simple math. This is assuming the conception of a term/concept. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 20:54, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Well, likewise, it's entirely possible they didn't have a name for the other group of 19 before Dooku, until Dooku made it 20 and they decided to name it; as you said we simply have no idea. What we do know, definitively, is that Dooku was the 20th member and we only ever have had a group called the "Lost Twenty" (even in Legends) given to us, so the "Lost Twenty" could not have been established until after he left, which is what the infobox is referring to. To answer your original question (why does it say that the term "Lost Twenty" was established after the Battle of Naboo? Surely we don't know when it was first used.), we do know when the term Lost Twenty was used or at least when it came about. VDO talk 20:50, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I tend to agree with Brandon here. That's what my remark aimed at. --LelalMekha (talk) 20:48, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I'd remove that. It's entirely possible that there was a "Lost Nineteen" before that, which wouldn't count as its own separate entity, just a different name for the same thing. So I'd just go with "prior to the Clone Wars." - Brandon Rhea(talk) 20:43, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Considering there were 20 total members, and it's the Lost "twenty", it could not have been used until after Dooku (the 20th member) left the Jedi, which (per Ultimate Star Wars) was after the Battle of Naboo. As well, as seen in Episode II, it had to have been before the Clone Wars started since Dooku was already commemorated in a statue form by then, hence the reference in that establishment date in the infobox. VDO talk 20:41, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
- After some consultation with people more informed about Canon matters than I, it seems that we don't know yet whether deleted scenes are canon, so I've removed Episode II from the Appearances section. Imperators II(Talk) 23:04, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
Vote to remove nomination (EC only)
- Idle objections. 1358 (Talk) 16:38, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
- I gave VDO a heads-up two days ago, but... yeah. Imperators II(Talk) 19:45, February 17, 2016 (UTC)
Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:47, February 17, 2016 (UTC)