Wookieepedia:Comprehensive article nominations/Babwa Venomor

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Comprehensive article nomination that was successful. Please do not modify it.

Babwa Venomor

  • Nominated by: LordMominutiae (talk) 02:59, February 1, 2020 (UTC)
  • Nomination comments: Still holding on to the hope that these other unfinished arcs will one day be fully completed. Thanks to Tope and Anil for some formatting assistance, and Culator for figuring out when the art was uploaded.

(3 ECs/2 Users/5 Total)

Support

  1. UberSoldat93 (talk) 11:59, February 2, 2020 (UTC)
  2. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 04:27, February 4, 2020 (UTC)
  3. ECvote Fan26 (Talk) 21:18, February 8, 2020 (UTC)
  4. ECvote QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 06:06, February 14, 2020 (UTC)
  5. ECvote TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:25, February 14, 2020 (UTC)

Object

Anil
  • (Reviewing note) Per the Layout Guide, image caption punctuation (i.e., a full stop, or period) is determined by whether the caption uses a complete sentence. Also, file names should have underscores instead of spaces. Example: "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight" does not receive a full stop, whereas "Luke Skywalker was a Jedi Knight." does. Or "Babwa_Venomor_concept_art.png" instead of "Babwa Venomor concept art.png." I have fixed these for you, but please keep this in mind for your future nominations.
    • Got it, thanks. For the file names, I actually was putting that in to practice elsewhere with some of my other images... yet I neglected to do so here. :/ LordMominutiae (talk) 02:32, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
  • As the character is completely based on cut material, I believe you should mention the Separatists/Kashyyyk stuff in the article body, not in the Behind the scenes section.
    • Yeah, I was wondering about that. I've gone ahead and put that info in the body. LordMominutiae (talk) 02:32, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
  • "…aligned with the Confederacy of Independent Systems during the Clone Wars." I don't think this section can be sourced to that concept art. You should source it to the panel instead.
    • I was using the CIS emblem on Venomor's outfit to show his allegiance to the Separatists. I can always change the reference to the panel if you don't believe the concept art is adequate enough here, though. LordMominutiae (talk) 02:32, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
  • Based on that concept art, I think it's fair to say that Venomor had yellow skin "with green mottles." TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 00:05, February 3, 2020 (UTC)
  • I don't think the date for Moore uploading the concept art to his ArtStation account is worth mentioning in the BTS, as we already have an exact date for the concept art itself. Anyways, if I remember the discussion on IRC correctly, June 28 was the date when the page was last updated, not necessarily when the image was uploaded, right?
    • You may be right. I had thought it was for when the image was uploaded, though it's very possible I'm mistaken. Regardless, I've gone ahead and removed it. LordMominutiae (talk) 18:27, February 14, 2020 (UTC)
  • I believe the date needs some work. For example, you need to show a source that places the Bad Batch stuff after the mission to Moraband. StarWars.com's TCW Chronological Episode Order should do it. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 01:28, February 14, 2020 (UTC)
    • Yeah, I need to try and see if I can streamline it at all, plus add that chronological order source in. Is it all right to link it just like you did here, or do I need to use a template or anything? LordMominutiae (talk) 18:27, February 14, 2020 (UTC)
      • You should use the relevant Internet citation template, which is {{SW}} in this case, but I have taken care of it for you, and added a few other needed sources to the note, which could prove useful for your future nominations. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 20:25, February 14, 2020 (UTC)
Winterz
  • What's the point of the external link section? It is already linked as a reference making the external link completely unnecessary. GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit Winterz (talk) 04:32, February 4, 2020 (UTC)
    • I don't believe an ArtStation post can be linked under the sources section, as it's not an official piece of media like a reference book or Databank entry. The content on the page is official, but the page itself isn't put out by Lucasfilm or anything. LordMominutiae (talk) 05:03, February 4, 2020 (UTC)
QGJ
  • Expanding on Winterz's objection, I don't believe that external links to non-Lucasfilm/Disney affiliated sites can be used as sources for the purposes of article naming, adding information and referencing IU portions of the article. Even though the concept art itself may be official, the fact that it was never published on an official site like SW.com, makes it status questionable at best. Even though the character itself has been cut from a finished product, there still exists a dividing line between officially disclosed information (i.e. Filoni's comments at the Celebration panel) and information shared through other unofficial means. I've discussed this on IRC with a few other members of the EC, and we've agreed that this article needs to be adjusted accordingly, which means:
    • The page should be moved to "Unidentified Trandoshan leader" (reflecting Filoni's comment)
      • Since Filoni never confirms that Venomor, specifically, is the leader, should the page be moved to "Unidentified Trandoshan Separatist" instead? LordMominutiae (talk) 19:29, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
        • The title "Trandoshan Separatist" implies that the individual was a fully-fledged member of the Confederacy, while Filoni only confirmed that he worked for the Separatists, so your option doesn't really fit here. Also, you've actually raised another point. Has the artist stated anywhere that the character depicted in the concept art is the same one that Filoni spoke about? We don't know for sure; there might have been multiple Trandoshans intended to be featured in those episode(s). The duck test certainly says that it's the same one, but still I feel like there's not enough confirmation. I feel like the best approach here would be to go with my proposed name for the article, since we are basing the IU portion of the article on the character that Filoni was talking about, and he explicitly called him a "Trandoshan leader." The Bts will need rewording to be more vague regarding the art. You can say that a "piece of concept art for the episode featured a Trandoshan by the name of Babwa Venomor." QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:31, February 12, 2020 (UTC)
          • In Filoni's quote, he says "they" after first mentioning the Trandoshan leader, which I took to mean that multiple Trandoshans were working with the Separatists here. You can see I had that info in Venomor's page as well. As such, should I look at alternative page names such as "Unidentified Trandoshan (Kashyyyk)" or perhaps even "Unidentified Trandoshan (Separatist-aligned)"? LordMominutiae (talk) 17:35, February 12, 2020 (UTC)
    • The Bts should say that according to the concept art shared by the artist, the character was supposed to be named Babwa Venomor
    • All information related to his physical appearance based on the unofficially released art needs to be moved to the Bts as well
    • The external links section needs to be removed for serving no purpose. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 08:48, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
      • Sorry for chiming in here, but I don't agree with the objections above since the whole article is listed as cut content that none of it is in-universe. We also have a precedent for this, though the article was later stripped of CA status for unrelated reasons. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders Anıl Şerifoğlu (talk) 19:32, February 12, 2020 (UTC)
        • The article you are referring to was originally granted its CA status more than 5 years ago. I know from personal experience that our sourcing and attribution standards were way more lenient back then. The main issue that I see with this nom is not the IU/OOU distinction, but rather which information can be considered official and which can't, and how this info should be best presented. As the nominator has correctly stated above, the artist's art gallery cannot be placed in the sources list, as it's not an official website. On the other hand, having {{1stID}} tags in the external links section also does not chime well with our site policies. As not to clog up the nomination page, I'm going to be hanging around on IRC to discuss this with you, Anil. LordMominutiae is also welcome to join the conversation and weigh in. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 07:11, February 13, 2020 (UTC)
  • After further conversation on IRC with Anil and other ECs, we've come to the agreement that the article can stay as is, so I retract my objections. Since the art was shared by a person directly affiliated with the project, it makes it credible enough in this case. Apologies for acting too hastily and requesting such drastic changes to the article; I probably should have had that thorough discussion in the first place. The one thing that the EC seems to agree on, however, is that the appearance tags need to be removed from the External links. That section is really not a place for those kind of tags. QuiGonJinn Senate seal(Talk) 17:26, February 13, 2020 (UTC)
    • Got it, thanks! And no worries. I’ve gone ahead and removed the tags from the External links section, then. LordMominutiae (talk) 21:55, February 13, 2020 (UTC)

Comments

Approved as a Comprehensive article by EduCorps 20:25, February 14, 2020 (UTC)