Source attribution concerns
Hey JRT2010. This is a difficult thing to bring up since you've made so many contributions to both updating with the latest information and cleaning up the issues on Ben Solo. In tracing the edit history of some content that concerned me, I found that you were responsible for the edits. The problem with them is that they directly quote from Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary; though they reference the source of the ideas, they are not marked as direct quotations. Whether done knowingly or not, using exact phrasing or full sentences by another author without attribution is plagiarism. Here are two of the larger examples:
| Ben Solo | Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary |
|---|---|
| "His reign was marked by a fierce crackdown on any star systems exhibiting signs of independence or defiance. Opposition to the First Order grew, in part, because of the persistent tale of Ren's defeat by a "legendary Jedi" at the Battle of Crait, which proved a difficult fable to suppress. In order to root out malcontents and crush the spirit of rebellion, Ren declared every world guilty of disloyalty to be subversive, making them prime targets for his stormtroopers and the dreaded Knights of Ren.[6]" [[1]]
"By then, Ren had discovered that his old master, Supreme Leader Snoke, was not the apex of the First Order's dark-side pyramid. Visions in the Force as well as scraps of arcane lore uncovered in Snoke's old bases were leading Ren to an ancient mystery.[6]" [[2]] |
"Kylo's reign as Supreme Leader has been marked by a fierce crackdown on any star systems exhibiting signs of independence or defiance. The persistent tale of his defeat by a "legendary Jedi" at the Battle of Crait proves a difficult fable to quash. Ren declares any worlds showing such disloyalty as "subversive" and dispatches stormtrooper patrols or even his dreaded Knights of Ren to root out malcontents and crush spirits. During this campaign of terror, visions in the Force as well as scraps of arcane lore uncovered in Snoke's old bases lead him to an ancient mystery. It becomes clear Snoke was not the apex of the First Order's dark side pyramid." |
| "At first he was desperate to prove his worth to Snoke,[34] but a lifetime spent living in the shadows of powerful mentors fostered in Ren a need to determine his own destiny and discover his own path. Castigated by Snoke, Ren questioned the gifts given to him by his master, recognizing them as cages and leashes designed to keep him obedient under the Supreme Leader's rule. After killing Snoke and usurping his throne, Ren finally gained the freedom and power he coveted as an apprentice, and yet still felt shackled to a fate he was only beginning to understand. As the new Supreme Leader, Ren jealously guarded his independence and was unwilling to serve another master, having sacrificed far too much to be subservient. As such, he felt no indebtedness to Darth Sidious or the Sith Eternal cultists, for they were but a means to an end." [[3]] | "A lifetime spent living in the shadows of powerful mentors fosters in Kylo a need to determine his own destiny and discover his own path. Having usurped the title of Supreme Leader with his killing of Snoke, Kylo now has unprecedented freedom and power, and yet still feels shackled to a fate he is only just beginning to understand."
"Kylo questions the gifts given to him by Snoke, recognizing them as cages and leashes designed to keep him obedient under the Supreme Leader's rule." "As ruler, Kylo feels no indebtedness to the Sith Eternal cultists, for they are but a means to an end. He has sacrificed far too much to be subservient." |
These and other instances will need to either be attributed as direct quotes, or be rewritten to paraphrase the ideas. Other editors have also gone astray with the novelizations, so I've added a cleanup template to the article to mark the issue in general rather than a concern about a single editor. Your help would be greatly appreciated to clean up this page and any others where the TROS VD or other sources were directly quoted. -- Immora (talk) 23:12, August 14, 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your response and how you're handling it. It's very understandable, especially since NPOV is a problem on that page. The edits you've made so far look great, and dang, you're fast at them! And thank you for what you said about my edits. This page is a tough one to wrangle, but we're getting there. -- Immora (talk) 11:17, August 17, 2020 (UTC)
Immortality
Hi! I've re-read the article Immortality and corrected the mistakes I managed to spot. I'd be grateful if you took a look and said whether the template {{Tone}} could be removed or you still see portions in need of improvement. Greetings, --Mustafar29 (talk) 21:53, October 2, 2020 (UTC)
Galactic Republic dates
Hi JRT, according to the The Star Wars Book timeline regarding this edit, the Galactic Republic has three entries concerning its restoration or reformation. The first orange one uses circa, the other orange one uses it as well, while the yellow one uses the exact year. They all give different descriptions, but really mean the same thing to me. What are your thoughts on this? Am I simply interpreting it differently? Kind regards —Tomotron 
(Star Forge) 06:50, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for your input JRT. Yep, that does make sense. Kind regards —Tomotron
(Star Forge) 09:26, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Marshal of the Republic TC
Hi there. I'm informing you in accordance with our Consensus policy that this TC thread has been altered. Please take a look, and act as you see fit. Thank you. Forum:TC:Marshal of the New Republic —Unsigned comment by RattsT (talk • contribs)
Boba Fett
Are you sure that it's NPOV to use "father" instead of father? It seems to me that since Boba Fett calls him his father, then it shows bias on our part to contradict him. I could be wrong about this, just wanted to ask you. VergenceScatter (talk) 22:34, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- That makes sense to me. Thanks for answering. VergenceScatter (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- I think we should be careful to not throw NPOV accusations around, after all do Jango and Boba's own views not count? Boba especially in The Mandalorian feels that Jango is his father, enough to defend his right to wear the armor. Another thing to consider is how many sources actually use "" around father and son, just because the databank does, that doesn't automatically mean we should. Maybe its an outlier, who knows, we need to get a large sample --Lewisr (talk) 00:02, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- I agree it should be clear that Boba is a clone of Jango, but I also feel that it should clear how they viewed their own relationship. I think I'd be okay with maybe pointing that though their exact relationship was technically just as a clone, they viewed each other as father and son --Lewisr (talk) 01:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- Personally I think the quotations, even if its only used at the first mention, should be used if the majority of sources go that way. The databank is a source yes, but its also not vetted by the story group, so if it was the only source then we're pretty much gonna have to go with what the majority uses --Lewisr (talk) 01:53, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- I agree it should be clear that Boba is a clone of Jango, but I also feel that it should clear how they viewed their own relationship. I think I'd be okay with maybe pointing that though their exact relationship was technically just as a clone, they viewed each other as father and son --Lewisr (talk) 01:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- I think we should be careful to not throw NPOV accusations around, after all do Jango and Boba's own views not count? Boba especially in The Mandalorian feels that Jango is his father, enough to defend his right to wear the armor. Another thing to consider is how many sources actually use "" around father and son, just because the databank does, that doesn't automatically mean we should. Maybe its an outlier, who knows, we need to get a large sample --Lewisr (talk) 00:02, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. If what I'm gathering from these conversations is correct, we're all in agreement that the Fetts' relationship can be communicated without the quotations around father and son, as long as the information is accurately presented. If that's that, I'll proceed with tweaking some pages to remove the quotations. Also, I invite you, JRT, to join the Wookieepedia Discord server, since we've discussed this topic further there and it would be easier to track the conversation all in one place. RattsT (talk) 02:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)