Talk: Tenebrae/Archive2

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Apprentice of Marka Ragnos

I just finished the book and there is nothing that even suggests that Vitiate was the Apprentice of Marka Ragnos. Unless proven otherwise, I remove Ragnos as his Master.--ScorpiO 19:18, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

• And I read to chapter 20 and already I found a part were it says he was Ragnos' appentice. Darth Nyriss tells Scoruge on the way to Nathema.--Jet Twilights 02:56, November 23, 2011 (UTC)
  • The novel doesn't say at all that Vitiate was Ragnos' apprentice, only that he was given Lordship by the Dark Lord himself. To add Ragnos as Vitiate's master is fanon, and will be reverted, possibly with an editing block penalty. Please also remember to sign your posts with four tildes, ~~~~, thanks.—Tommy 9281 Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 02:57 UTC
• My mistake. Sorry. But you seem to have been mistaken too because I DID sign my last post.--Jet Twilights 04:33, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

Race

So let me get this straight: Vitiate WAS a Sith Purblood, but his dark power turned him into what resembles a Human? How the heck does THAT work!?--Jet Twilights 02:55, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

- The profile picture of him is as he appeared in "blood of the empire", and that comic had established that idea that he had jumped from body to body. So at this point (roughly 300 years after the Revan Novel) we can assume the body he resides in, is not his first. -Nebelwerfer

- Wait wait wait....he JUMPED bodies!? Were did it say that? I don't remember that, (I read it a while ago). And why would he need to jump bodies if he's IMMORTAL? Leaving the body he used to in act the ritual would make him mortal again, wouldn't it?--Jet Twilights 00:51, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

• • We only know his story from a 3rd person account and from the years up until c.a 3,954. That leaves around 300 years of history that we haven't got at the moment. 193.69.162.242 16:42, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

- Read "blood of the empire" again if you don't remember that part about how the emperor jumps from body to body. That was the reason why his redsith apprentice rebelled against him and fled. -Nebelwerfer

- I think it's like how he got Revan and Malak to work for him that he can completely take over bodies, but only of the children of the emperor. Je'diiverd 03:55, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Exile VS Nihilus VS Emperor

The Emperor consumed 1 planet (Nathema), and power that he has got from this act was enough to keep him for a thousand of years alive, kill 9 most powerful Sith Lords on Kaas (The Dark Council) and defeat Revan.

Lord Nihilus consumed not only 1 planet (Katarr) but (according to Kreia) also many more worlds. So his power must've been even far greater than Emperor's.

But Nihilus was killed by Exile, because she blocked herself off the Force, so when Nihilus tried to drain her, he couldn't (because she wasn't connected to the Force), and this exhausted his power enough for him to be killed.

So, couldn't Exile use the same technique to weaken and defeat the Emperor? If she would've explained this tactics to the Scourge, he could've decided NOT to betray her (because this could've convinced him of the fact that this tactics would ensure Emperor's defeat so there'd be no great risk for him) and Emperor would've been defeated for good.

Aww why the ways of the Force must be soo stupid? ^^

--90.180.63.238 15:42, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think what Vitiate did on Nathema is something differend than Nihilus´es "force of Hunger", because Vitiate not only sucked all the life, he also sucked and consumed all the Force on the planet. We have no proof, that Nihilus did the same thing. As far as we know, he only drained the Force energy from the Force-sensitives on Katarr (or any other planet for that matter) and that´s it. That is why I think, Meetra´s ability could not been used.--ScorpiO 20:42, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

nihilus was a wound in the force - he was feeding upon the connections between the life and the force until the life died and the connection ceased to exist. he could never be sustained - Emperor however sucked everything - the force, life and even color and sound and part of the essence of all that he somehow imprinted upon his own effectivily making himself immortal but he did this only for more massive permanent power boost and the immortality through complex Sith Magic ritual unlike nihilus who because of hunger became little more than animal and eating Force-users wherever he found them

My thoughts is that the Emperor's technique was more controlled and calculated while Nihilus had been reduced to nothing more than as to the anonymous poster referred to as a wound in the Force. But no one knows who would win in such a fight. --Senjuto 16:05, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Nihilus was a wound - he sucked the Force energy from the life around him, and consumed the life of many planets. But Vitiate is different - he fed upon the Force everywhere on Nathema, and left the entire planet barren on the Force - not a wound, just... empty. Like a blight that consumed everything in its wake - even the bodies of the dead, I think. And unlike Nihilus, who was not responsible for what he became (he was simply present at Malachor V, and it affected him like Meetra Surik, only he was consumed by his hunger), Vitiate chose to do this - he used a ritual that he knew would strip the Force from Nathema, and he has been feeding on others (like Revan and his apprentices) ever since to prolong his life and power. Nihilus was an empty shell, while Vitiate is very alive and well, and intelligent to boot. --Cade1 15:42, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Return page to Sith Emperor

I'm going to make the case that this page should be moved back to "Sith Emperor". Vitiate was one of several names that he held throughout his lifetime. First he was Tenebrae, then Vitiate, then the Sith Emperor. He was known most widely and for the longest period of time as the Sith Emperor—the phrase was not a title or position, but rather an alternate form of address for the individual; he was the Sith Emperor. Darth Nyriss even confirms that the name Vitiate was abandoned by the Emperor in Revan:

"Their deaths made him stronger than any Sith who had come before, and he ceased to be known as Lord Vitiate. On that day, the Emperor was truly born."

All other TOR sources refer to him exclusively as the "Sith Emperor", and as per our naming conventions, this article should reflect that. If there are no major or compelling objections within the next day, I will be making the move. Darth Trayus^{(Trayus Academy)} 21:46, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

• I support the move back to Sith Emperor. The way the situation reads, to me, is similar to a Sith taking on a new "Darth" persona, giving up who they used to be and fully embracing the new identity. Obviously we should mention his birth name, and his first Lordship name, but I agree that Emperor wasn't just what he was, but who he was. Bella'Mia 02:51, December 4, 2011 (UTC)
• Well, I agree that he WAS The Sith Emperor and that it was not only his title, but his personal characteristic as well-but exactly the same can be said about f.e. Sidious or any highly-influential and important character. And there must be a way to distinguish these characters from each other on the first sight. So his name (Vitiate) should be used whenever he's being mentioned as well. Or he should be reffered to the Emperor of Post–Great Hyperspace War empire/True Sith empire/Cold war empire.--90.180.63.238 01:09, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
• I also agree with the move based on Trayus' argument. - JMAS ^{Hey, it's me!} 01:14, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
• I absolutely agree with that. Darth Malgus and Mandalore the Vindicated both have their titles as the name of the page and not their original names. Even if an Emperor is not a true name but a title, the name of Mandalore is also a title. In the case of Lord Vitiate, he assumed that title as his name, and should be referred to as such. All characters in the books and the game do.

Bedraal 02:06, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

• I too agree. It follows much the same principle as Mandalore the Ultimate and other Mandalore. Vitate is no longer his name. Whether he has taken a new name is yet to be seen, but as far as we currently know he is simply: the Sith Emperor. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 17:53, December 5, 2011 (UTC)
• To further that, the novel makes it quite clear that he was given the title of Lord Vitiate, not a new name.—Tommy 9281 Monday, December 5, 2011, 18:20 UTC

So, I think we may need to re-open the conversation. In Darth Plagueis, he's explicitly referred to as "Emperor Vitiate" on pg 181. -- DigiFluid 07:51, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

• I agree with refering to him as Vitiate, both because of the mention in "Darth Plagueis", but also for symbolic reasons: refering to him as the "Sith Emperor" essentially dehumanizes him. One of my primary concerns has always been aesthetics, and the subtext conveyed by the information. It should be written a certain way to convey the proper point and support a given conclusion. Jensaarai 08:07, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

DOB

What's the source for the infobox giving his DOB as 5113 BBY? I remember in Revan it being stated that he was born in the decades before the Great Hyperspace War, but over a century (plus a date as exact as 113 years before it) is a bit more than decades. What's the source on this? -- DigiFluid 15:29, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Is Revan novel itself, if you read very, very accurately in the tale of the born of the Sith Emperor appear that his born year was 5113 BBY (93.39.212.253 16:39, January 9, 2012 (UTC))Borin87

Page number? Not for doubt's sake--I'm just curious, because apparently I completely missed it. -- DigiFluid 17:00, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunally I don't have with me the book but I remember that in the chats here in the forum was discuss very long the matter, I hope a more exper user interview. For the question of the death you right that was a bad editing but I'm convinced that the Sith Warrior story was the first( or second) of all so I believe that AFTER that the Jedi Knight truly defeat him but for know for sure we need a timleine of the class's stories, soory the OT!!!!! (93.39.212.253 17:12, January 9, 2012 (UTC))Borin87

Was going to add info about his voice actor. It's the guy who plays Pinhead.

Behind the scenes

This section could definitely be added. Eg; Tenebrae means shadows or darkness in latin while vitiate means 'to corrupt'. I'm sure an enterprising person could whip this up in no time, but I dont have the time at the moment. Jade Raven 09:54, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Google Translate (which I'll be the first to admit isn't perfect) translates the Latin "vitiate" to the English "violated," not "to corrupt."

While your idea is not a bad one at all, maybe someone with a firm grip on Latin could weigh in before we add anything... -- DigiFluid 13:51, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Do not rely on Google to translate latin, it still is way too complicated for an automated translator. Tenebrae does indeed mean "shadows", but vitiate isn't proper latin. Vitiate is English and means "to morally corrupt" (or sometimes, in archaic context, "to rape"), though it does come from the latin verb vitio (which means "to damage" and "to sexually rape". LelalMekha 14:05, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Chill. I didn't add it, did I? All I urged was clarification, because Google Translate isn't perfect. -- DigiFluid 14:14, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Chill? I'm sorry you took it that way, I didn't wish to offend you or appear agressive... I was just trying to contribute to the conversation, as I took latin class both in high school and university. My apology if you took it personally. LelalMekha 14:17, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Immortality

I wanna know how far his immortality reaches. He can live centuries yes but could he ever be truly killed? --ShenLong Kazama 16:36, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well we know that (*SPOILER ALERT* TOR JEDI KNIGHT QUEST RESOLUTION PAST THESE PARENTHESES) the class quest of the Jedi Knight in TOR involves battling and slaying him, but that he transfers his essence to another body a la Darth Andeddu, Darth Bane's aborted attempt, and Palpatine. But that also seems to indicate that he does not cease to be in the course of the game. Perhaps the upcoming post-game fourth TOR novel will shed some light on his ultimate fate. – DigiFluid 17:23, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Speculation

with new sources like The Old Republic: Revan and Star Wars: The Old Republic revealing much more about the Emperor's past, should we not remove all the useless speculation from the talk page? it's cluttering the place up, and it's now obsolete. Swordsquirrel 17:26, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Taken care of. In the future, you can just do this yourself. Just take care not to cut off any conversations that may still be on-going. – DigiFluid 19:19, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm just a little cautious of deleting a bunch of other people's posts. 86.155.189.76 22:09, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, fear not. You don't delete them, you just make a new page to archive them to and put in the Archive template at the top of the current page. – DigiFluid 22:29, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Main Picture

If the Emperor defeated by the Hero of Tython was actually the voice of the emperor then the picture we are using isn't actually the Emperor, I think we should change it or simply remove it.--Gboy4 10:28, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

• Now, I haven't played TOR, but if I'm reading this right he transferred his soul to other bodies to stay alive, yes? If so, then that was not just a "Voice" that the knight, defeated, it was him, as he lived at that time. In my view, it doesn't matter if he moved through other bodies, the body he possessed was his own and the one killed on Voss was the latest picture we have of him. If we had a portrait of his natural body, that might be different. NaruHina ^Talk 05:15, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
  • This is mainly to DigiFluid who reverted the change that brought the image, personally I don't think it's sufficient reason to revert a change on the back of 'check the edit history'; when Gboy4 removed it, he didn't provide sources backing up his claim, nor was any agreement reached on the talkpage, in fact Gboy4 doesn't even sound sure of it himself. You should perhaps of consulted the talkpage before you undid the change.
  • I haven't played Jedi Knight, but from what I've read NaraHina statement sounds accurate. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} 05:48, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

I also have not played the Jedi Knight quest, and don't have any strong feelings one way or another on this. I was just reverting because I had taken from Gboy actually making the change (rather than just discussing) that s/he had become confident enough in his/her assertion to go ahead with it. Do what you will, though I think it might be best if we get someone who's finished the JK quest to weigh in. – DigiFluid 06:06, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

I haven't finished the Jedi Knight quest but I did finish the Sith Warrior quest and I got a message from the Emperor's Hand stating the Knight only killed the voice and that the Emperor is recovering, my understand of the voice is that they are individuals that the Emperor possesses in order to use them as messengers, they are definately not clones as I encountered a Voice on Voss which was a member of the Voss Species and Darth Baras attempted to pretend he was the voice, which would have been impossible if the voices were clones.--Gboy4 16:28, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Voice of the Emperor

I have a question regarding the nature of the Voice : is it the host body of the Emperor or just another body he possesses the same way he uses his " children "? In the second case, I don't understand why Vitiate let Baras claimed he was the Voice. The Emperor just needed to come in front of the Dark Council and say otherwise. Malgus said he was apathetic, that could explain this. Or he just doesn't care about politics in his empire.

But still, why then the Servants need to secure the Emperor's essence into a new host body? How it's different from the Children? I don't remember the Servants did care about them when they were defeated. Maybe the Voice is infused with a lot of essence unlike the Children?

By the way, is it really confirmed that the host killed by the Jedi Knight was the new body the Servants secured (after Sel-Makor was killed) or was it a new body the Emperor took long ago?

What do you think of all this?

Please note the Topicheader at the very beginning of this page. "This space is used for discussion relating to changes to the article, not for a discussion about the topic in question." – DigiFluid 16:54, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

oblivious?

It seems vitiate was a little oblivious in battle. When Revan and his allies stormed his throne room, he seemed to only see Revan despite the fact that Meetra, Scourge and T3 were fighting his guard only feet away. He didn't seem to notice them until they directly struck at him. Should this be part of the personality section? —Unsigned comment by RevanKnight (talk • contribs)

• Please read the header at the top of the talk page—or maybe just the post directly above this one—and sign your comments. Cade Calrayn 06:54, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sith Pureblood?

The infobox lists him as being 'originally Sith' and references Revan as its source. Can anyone provide a page number for where it says that? I've read Revan and don't recall that being stated anywhere. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 01:52, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

• Page 234 it says "The Emperor was no longer a memeber of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy." DarthRevan1173 (Long live Lord Revan) 02:09, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
  • Good stuff, thanks for chasing that down so quickly! After checking and re-reading that part though, a thought occurs: that's Scourge thinking that, in that moment. Scourge who knew nothing about the Emperor till Nyriss told him the 'secret legend' of the Emperor's origins. So we're reading a third-hand account of a legend. I wonder if we really should be accepting that at face value. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 02:25, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
    • No prob. Best I can say is ask Karpyshyn himself by email or twitter and see what he says. DarthRevan1173 (Long live Lord Revan) 02:31, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
      • That's a good thought, I think I will. I mean my instinct is that it's probably correct as-is, I just want to be sure is all. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 02:40, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Following up, I got a response to my question this morning: "the emperor was a pureblood, but after so many centuries of life he has little in common with ordinary Sith" tweet link. Will be adding this citation to the infobox shortly. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 14:18, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Name

I believe that due to the established canon refering him as "Lord Viatite", we should change the name of the Sith Emperor's page to Lord Viatite. I mean, I see no real reason for it. It would be like calling Palpatine, "The Emperor", despite the fact we have an official name for him. Weirdo Guy (talk) 00:00, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

• Throughout the era that he lived in, he is universally referred to as simply the Emperor, and almost no one knew his real name or identity. Plus, everything that Trayus and the others said above. As for Jensaarai's argument that it "dehumanizes" him, that's perfectly true—he's not a mortal in any sense of the word. In his mind, he's ascended beyond his mortal life and is now like a god. Cade Calrayn 04:53, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'm confused this wiki lists the following people as leaders the Sith Empire, all of them would be Emperors

Adas, who ruled a Sith Empire circa 28,000 BBY Naga Sadow, who ruled the Sith Empire from 6,900BBY - 5,000 BBY Exar Kun, who ruled the Sith Empire from 3,997 BBY - 3,996 BBY Revan and Malak, who ruled the Sith Empire from 3,959BBY - 3,954BBY Darth Nihilus, who ruled the Sith Empire from 3,954BBY - 3,950BBY Darth Ruin, who ruled the New Sith Empire established 2000BBY - 1042BBy Darth Krayt, who ruled the One Sith's Galactic Empire established 130ABY - 138ABY

even Lord Sidious, also known as Palpatine who ruled the galaxy from 19BBY - 4ABY was a "Sith Emperor" (he was a Sith Lord and he was an Emperor, in fact in Star Wars III:RotS he even stated "and once more the Sith will rule the galaxy....and we shall have peace." sounds like he was creating a Sith Empire even though now one at the time new that fact.

i think this page should be renamed Lord Viatite,

and a new page that is called Sith Emperor (disambiguation) be created You have one for Sith Empire (disambiguation) why not for the rulers of the Sith Empire? Chasemarc (talk) 21:15, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Then why don't you people stop talking about changing the name and actually do it then. DBZSSJ3 (talk) 09:46, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

• Per the reasoning presented on the article's FAN, as well as in the sections above, it will not be moved. Vitiate is no longer the Emperor's name, he abandoned it along with his humanity when he became immortal. Cade Calrayn 14:25, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
• But doesn't the name, Sith Emperor, sound a bit generic though? Numerous Sith did hold that title other than him. DBZSSJ3 (talk) 15:19, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
  • Actually, no, they didn't. Of this list above, only Sidious and Krayt actually held the title of Emperor. Also, it doesn't matter if it's "generic", it's the canon name for the character. Cade Calrayn 15:22, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

FWIW, I think moving this to "Vitiate" was pure, weapons-grade stupid. The various emperors were Emperors of the Sith, styled simply "Emperor." This guy is the one individual who has been consistently referred to as the Sith Emperor. "Vitiate" ceased to be, on Nathema. It's even explicitly spelt out in black and white in Revan—he ceased to be Vitiate and became, simply, the Sith Emperor. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 00:29, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

• That's what I said. See the FANom - I'm more than willing to move it back if you can convince Rokkur. Cade Calrayn 00:31, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Where exactly is he referred to as the "Sith Emperor" and not simply as "the Emperor". It is a generic title. Whether he discarded the name or not, he was Lord Vitiate. How long he had the name for is irrelevant. The point is it's there and was clearly given to distinguish Vitiate the individual from the title of Emperor. Darth Nihilus lost his old name, too (and we don't even know what it was), but nobody calls him "Sith Lord", because that's a generic title for his position among the Sith. In Vitiate's case, we actually have a name, so there's even less of an excuse. Insomniact (talk) 18:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

• Please see this consensus, where it was overwhelmingly decided to keep the current title per the reasonings I gave there. If you are insistent on trying to move the page, you're welcome to try a CT, but be forewarned about what will likely result. Cade Calrayn 18:27, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Power and Abilities

Is it taboo to improve this section in this article? Everytime I have attempted to do so, the content have been reverted back by other members without even a notification. --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 22:31, February 01, 2013 (UTC)

• Seeing as it's my Featured Article nomination, it's essentially taboo, yes. What exactly do you think needs changing? Cade Calrayn 17:33, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
  • I understand your concern. But you have poorly written this section and I can help. Check this draft:

Tenebrae was supremely strong in the dark side of the Force; even touted as the history's most powerful dark side master.^[1] His incredible abilities began to manifest at the age of six; he used his newfound powers to snap his adoptive father's neck with a thought, and slowly tortured his mother to death with the Force while feeding on her fear and pain to hone his powers.^[2] As his powers grew, Tenebrae continued to gorge himself on the fear and suffering of those whom he tortured and/or killed.^[2] At the age of ten, Tenebrae confronted Sith Lord Dramath, the ruler of his homeworld Mediraas and also his biological father, and stripped him (Lord Dramath) from his power in the Force and also his sanity. After the fall of Lord Dramath, other powerful Sith attempted to seize control of Mediraas but they also fell before the dark side prodigy.^[2] At the age of thirteen, Tenebrae met Marka Ragnos, the ruler of the Old Sith Empire in that era, in Korriban; Marka Ragnos recognized Tenebrae's incredible power, granted him the title of Lord Vitiate,^[1] and acknowledged the boy's rule over Mediraas.^[2]

Tenebrae earned a reputation of a scholar, spending much of his time studying the secrets of the dark side.^[2][1] He soon gained immense knowledge of Sith sorcery, becoming one of the most powerful practitioners of both Sith magic and Sith alchemy throughout history, and devised complex rituals to warp reality and life itself.^[2] In pursuit of immortality, Tenebrae most notably performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.^[1] This ritual left planet Mediraas as a void in the Force and transformed Tenebrae in to a vitually immortal Force-wielder.^[1] Lord Scourge suspected that Tenebrae had not only absorbed the lives of those who had died in the ritual, but was in fact feeding off of their spirits to sustain his own throughout the centuries that followed.^[2]

Another one of Tenebrae's specialties was his incalculable powers of corruption; according to a legend, Tenebrae was able to dominate the minds of 8,000 Sith Lords and bind them to his will; he then used them as his puppets in a ritual which destroyed his homeworld.^[2] Several millennia later, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak attempted to assassinate Tenebrae in his stronghold; even though these Jedi were on the precipice of the dark side during this time, it took only a fraction of the Tenebrae's loathsome power to break them simultaneously and convert them in to his agents.^[1] Three hundred years later, some elite Jedi warriors led by Tol Braga confronted Tenebrae aboard a space station; the Sith Emperor easily subdued them simultaneously, twisting them to the dark side.^[1] Tenebrae was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him.^[1]

After reconstituting a Sith Empire, Tenebrae spent much of his rule experimenting even further with the dark side, discovering many lost techniques and increasing his immense power even more.^[3] In his relentless and selfish pursuit of immortality, Tenebrae explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side.^[1] To safeguard himself against external threats, Tenebrae utilized the transfer essence technique to move his consciousness, which had been made immortal as a result of the ritual which destroyed Mediraas, between bodies and sustain his life indefinitely.^[4] In addition, by drawing on his incredible dark powers, Tenebrae was also able to imprint his consciousness into unwitting pawns, transforming these Children of the Emperor into extensions of his will.^[1] Tenebrae could suppress his Children's personas and even their Force-sensitivity, making them the ultimate covert operatives, and even possess them like puppets.^[5]

The Emperor's rituals on Dromund Kaas warped the planet's very atmosphere, creating perpetual lightning storms,^[3] and he became a master of manipulating objects and the environment with the Force.^[2]

Tenebrae was proficient in the application of Telekinesis. During his second confrontation with Revan, Tenebrae send his nemesis flying across his throne room with barely an effort.^[2] Prior to this event when Revan attempted to dominate one of the Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard individuals with his telekinetic abilities, Revan found this opponent to be virtually immune to telekinetic assaults due to being empowered by the Sith Emperor.^[2] Tenebrae was a practitioner of terrifying powers such as the ability to drain a being of its life force and unleash hatred as crackling bolts of energy.^[1] Tenebrae could conjure extremely lethal storms of Force lightning.^[2] He would have destroyed Revan with this dark power, if T3-M4 had not interfered; the droid blasted Tenebrae with its flamethrower but the Sith Emperor easily rendered the attack ineffective by cocooning himself in the Force, and effortlessely disintegrated the ill-fated droid with just a thought in retaliation.^[2] In another confrontation with a Jedi strike team led by Tol Braga, Tenebrae overwhelmed the entire strike team with his storms of Force lightning.^[6] During his second apocalyptic duel with Hero of Tython, Tenebrae was able to summon Sith magic, which enabled him to create physical duplicates of himself while battling his opponent. In the same encounter, the Emperor seemingly collapsed the Dark Temple or a portion of it with his telekinetic abilities in his effort to kill the Jedi.^[6] When necessary, the Emperor would utilize his red-bladed lightsaber in combat.^[6]

• Good enough? --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 07:18, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
  • That is very POV, kind of speculative, and essentially a summary of the biography. It's fine as it is. Cade Calrayn 02:23, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
    • It is not POV; these details are from the canon sources Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia and The Old Republic: Revan. I have both sources. If you do not highlight the Sith Emperor's talents properly then what is the point of having a power and abilities section? Have you even consulted these sources? --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 07:30, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
      • Yes, I did. And your content is largely taken directly from the texts, if not copied. Your additions are incredibly biased, overly wordy and repetitive, and essentially a repeat of the biography. None of that is necessary - it's all been established by the biography, P&T, and the current P&A sections. Cade Calrayn 02:36, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
        • So how do you think that members feed information in articles? They rephrase words in their own manner like I did. And how is my draft incredibility biased? Is representing information from canonical sources an act of bias? Seriously, you are the strangest contributor I have yet encountered in this community. What do you think should be highlighted in powers and abilities section? What you have written in this section seems like a childish writing with no context and clarity. It seems like a jumbled up pile of information. Do the math. --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 07:41, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
          • I did not read this whole thing since tl;dr. However, S W LeGenD, we do have a rule about not personally attacking people. Referring to someone as the "strangest contributor" falls under the personal attack policy. Please be more careful in the future, or you'll find yourself with a block. Thank you for your cooperation.—Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 02:45, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
            • Ok! I will be careful. But you guys should have rules for liberal/neutral contributions like is the case in Wikipedia where I have contributed a lot. If I am trying to improve an article, I should be allowed to do so. Of-course, people can edit my writings too and I do not interfere with that. What I have experienced in this article is complete reversal of my edits and this is why I posted the draft for review purposes. Would you shed some light on it? --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 07:50, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
              • Your edits were reverted because this is Cade's FA nom and therefore any major changes should be discussed with him before being made. Supreme Emperor (talk) 02:55, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
                • In Wikipedia, it doesn't matters if an article is nominated for a ranking; people continue to enhance the article. I see that this community have different rule then. What is unfortunate that Cade thinks that my draft is incredibly biased; even though it is coherently written and based on canonical information. Wookieepedia articles are supposed to be informative for general audience (readers) and they shouldn't represent one-contributor-POV. This is my point. I am open to constructive criticism but the kind of criticism that I have recieved from Cade is not acceptable; he claims to have read the sources which I have used as references and still accuses my writing of being incredibly biased. This is what I find strange. Sith Emperor is canonically being promoted in the manner as I have represented him in my draft above. Denying it is like denying canon information. --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 08:07, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
• And I've stated the reasons that I will not be altering the P&T section, several times. It's biased both towards and against the Emperor ("loathsome"), full of weasel words, repetitive even within itself, and essentially a summary of the biography. The P&T doesn't need to repeat every single thing the Emperor's done in his lifetime. Cade Calrayn 02:59, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
  • Bro, solution is to edit and improve the words written. This is how things work in Wikipedia; complete reversals give an impression of me being a negative contributor which isn't the case. I am not misrepresenting anything. In other words, you are discouraging other members from contributing in this article. If I edit any other section in this article, then I should expect my contributions to be revered in those sections as well? --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 08:07, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
  • Wookieepedia is apolitical and avoids partisan preference in theological debates about the Force. The verity of IU word choice is irrelevant to this site's consensus in favor of LARPing as the Switzerland of encyclopedias. Karohalva (talk) 03:19, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
    • Okay, firstly, the prime thing to remember here is that Wookieepedia is not Wikipedia. What applies there has little bearing on what applies here. Secondly, the article is currently undergoing peer review. That means that it has to follow all stylistic guides in place on the Wook, all of which have been voted on by the community. (See here and here for details). In short, your proposed revision to the article goes against several of the rules we have in place. It is not written from a neutral point of view (you use words such as "supremely" and "loathsome") and it rehashes material from the bio that does not need to be repeated. This is not about misrepresenting canon as all the material in the original version is sourced and accurate. All FANs and FAs are watched with scrutiny by the administrators, Inquisitorius and certain regular users to ensure that any edits to them are a sufficient quality for it to maintain that status. Any edits that are deemed to detract from the article quality will be reverted as we hold these articles to the highest possible standards. - Cavalier One^{(Squadron channel)} 03:24, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
      • What I have written is actually from a nuetral point of view. Those two words are in question? They are from following statements; By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already on the precipise of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall (Page 88; Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia); The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every living being on his homeworld (Page 148; Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia); The secretive and supremely powerful Sith Emperor rose from inauspicious beginnings over a thousand years ago (Page 168; Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia); so I don't understand that why you people are doubting the nuetrality of my draft. Furthermore, the mind domination of 8000 Sith Lords is actually a legend; not confirmed in the Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia. This is another example which indicates that my draft is from nuetral point of view. Regardless, I am done here due to all the encouragement I recieved. --S_W_LeGenD (talk) 08:49, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
        • Verbatim quotation is not neutrality. Aside from reading like a high school paper pounded off the night before it was due, words and phraseology like "selfish," "great Jedi heroes," "loathsome," and so forth are value judgements. This is an encyclopedia, to be written impartially, not something to be padded out with inappropriate opinion-based phrasing. — DigiFluid^{(Whine here)} 04:38, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
      • Guys, he does have a point however, in that straight out reversions to new users edits, without any explanation on his talk page, is an issue. You really should be encouraging him but all the while explaining where exactly he's gone wrong, instead of simply hitting revert. It's counter productive and leads to lengthy arguments such as this. Rokkur Shen (talk) 05:28, February 10, 2013 (UTC)