Talk: Supreme Commander (Galactic Empire)

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Merge

Wouldn't it be more prudent to merge the Supreme Commander (Mon Cala) and Supreme Commander (Empire) pages together, as it seems like The title holds the same power and duties (I.E. Commander-in-chief of a specific military). Especially since we've been kinda merging articles together recently and also move the current Supreme Commander page into a Supreme Commander (disambiguation).--08:04, July 6, 2019 (UTC)

  • I agree especially since we don't have a Grand Admiral (Empire) and a Grand Admiral (Mon Cala) page since the Empire and Mon Cala used the rank.--Jkirk8907 (talk) 08:17, July 6, 2019 (UTC)
  • I disagree. In Mon Cala's case, the King of Mon Cala bears the title of Supreme Commander because he is king, and as such the highest authority. This differs from the Galactic Empire, as the Supreme Commander of the Imperial Military is not the highest authority, Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader are. Just because two organizations have the same rank in their structure doesn't mean we have to merge them. Take for example Chancellor (Rebel Alliance), Chancellor (Shu-Torun), Chancellor (New Republic). These all have similar roles but they each have varying duties and powers, and as such we keep them separate. In the case for Grand Admiral, both Mon Cala and the Empire have it as the commander of a fleet, so we don't need to have separate articles for both of them.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:56, July 6, 2019 (UTC)
    • Also, General Grievous is the Supreme Commander of the Droid Army, and we have that as separate rather than within a Supreme Commander article, not just because the name is variable, but because of the slightly different duties and powers. Commander-in-Chief is similar in terms of duties/roles/powers of Mon Cala's Supreme Commander title, but we don't have it as an alternate name for Supreme Commander despite the similarities. In fact, if we were to argue in real-world/real-life context: the Supreme Commander of Mon Cala's military is that specific military's Commander-in-Chief, but the Supreme Commander of the Imperial Military is not the Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Armed Forces, Emperor Palpatine is as he is the highest authority. This shows the difference between the Supreme Commander articles, and why they should be kept separate. Back to Star Wars context (and the one that actually matters to determining whether the articles are merged or not), Dawn of Rebellion clarifies that Emperor Palpatine is the overall commander of the Imperial Military, (The King of Mon Cala is the overall commander of the Mon Cala Military), but the operations of the Imperial Armed Forces falls to the Supreme Commander, who is the senior-most officer of Imperial High Command and who continuously changes. The Imperial Supreme Commander makes the military's agendas and goals. This is fundamentally different from what we know of Mon Cala's Supreme Commander, who is just the highest authority in the military because he is king. Due to these many differences, the articles must be kept separate--Vitus InfinitusTalk 15:09, July 6, 2019 (UTC)

Darth Vader holding this rank

In Legends, Vader held the Supreme Commander (Empire) position, could it be possible that he held this rank in canon before Tagge's promotion due to Vader's failure and after Tagge's death? According to the comic Star Wars 22, Vader was a member of Imperial High Command so this could be the case. Imperial Emblem Tomotron Imp roundel 2ndempire (talk) 09:20, July 7, 2019 (UTC)

  • It's possible but I don't think it's likely because the Supreme Commander is described as the senior-most Imperial officer of High Command and that Supreme Commanders never hold their position for long periods of time because the Emperor creates infighting, among other things. Since Vader isn't an officer and he's not sacked and replaced by others and other details Dawn of Rebellion gets into, Vader isn't a Supreme Commander in canon (yet)--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:50, July 7, 2019 (UTC)
    • Well there is this quote: "In the galaxy of adventures, Darth Vader commands the might of the Empire." -- Darth Vader - Might of the Empire (So that could be evidence) However, Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 12 states Vader has his power because he is the Emperor's right hand, not due to a rank.--Editoronthewiki (talk) 15:25, July 7, 2019 (UTC)
      • I wouldn't read much into that commanding the might of the Empire clip, its just effectively saying he has the backing of the whole Imperial Military. Star Wars: The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary states that Kylo exists outside the formal command structure of the FO, and that his agenda trumps military objectives. Then it says Kylo's placement in the hierarchy was intentionally designed that way to mirror Vader's placement in the Empire. That lines with the fact that Vader has no real rank in the Empire and all his power comes from the fact he is Palpatine's apprentice, the same way Kylo has no real FO rank and it was because he was Snoke's apprentice --Lewisr (talk) 14:26, July 29, 2019 (UTC)

think of Wilhuff Tarkin's addition to the status of Supreme Commander

In Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith, the introduction of Takin as the leader of the imperial army, even in the moff days, comes from the conversation between Vader and the Emperor.

This can be deduced that, like Tagge, the individual commanding the imperial army is the supreme commander per the dawn of the revolt, so it can be deduced that the Targe general is the supreme commander of the entire imperial army.

In addition, in many major battles, including the Death Star, Takin was often the top leader in command, so he also appears to be a strong candidate for supreme commander.

Possible "Rise and Fall of the Galactic Empire" update - Vader as SC post-ANH

I was watching a short on Vader's rank from the YouTube channel VadersOrder and he posted this comment: "UPDATE: In the recent canon novel that was just released(literally just a few days after this video was uploaded) titled "The Rise and Fall of the Galactic Empire" Vader's rank has been updated to "supreme commander" in Canon as well! Will make an updated video soon, but he was given this rank shortly before the events of Episode V!" https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ckts4d1eY0U I don't have the book yet - can anyone else verify his claim? Alex of Star Wars (talk) 18:48, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

  • The source only says he was made supreme commander of the Imperial fleet after Tagge's death. The book also specifically states that the facts did not back up the idea he was supreme commander of the entire military, however Lewisr (talk) 17:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the info. Sounds similar to Rebel military leadership: Mon Mothma was the Commander-in-Chief of the entire Rebel military, whereas Ackbar was specifically Supreme Commander of the Rebel Fleet. Or maybe Chris Kempshall borrowed the "Supreme Fleet Commander" for the Empire from the EU - I read on Reddit that "Rise and Fall of the GA" had referenced other EU stuff such as Kinman Doriana. Should Vader's position of Supreme Commander of the navy post-Shu-Torun be added to the main Supreme Commander - like a sub-section - or its own article, sort of like Supreme Fleet Commander for the Rebels? I'll try to find and buy the book itself in the meantime.Alex of Star Wars (talk) 16:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't think it should be here since this is for the entire military, at best it should just have its own page Lewisr (talk) 01:59, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
      • Then I'll make that position's own article - I bought an EBook version of the book on Amazon and found exactly what you were saying in the Galactic Civil War section: "The reward for these efforts was for Palpatine to elevate Vader to the position of supreme commander of the Imperial fleet." So yeah, post-ANH he was only in charge of the Navy - the rest was de facto authority due to him being Sidious' right-hand. Thanks for the help. Alex of Star Wars (talk) 11:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)