Talk: Subject 1138

Article milestones Date Process Result October 31, 2010 Article has undergone Trash compactor Keep
Current status: Article kept after Trash compactor

Deletion

Why delete this. If he is a clone (which I've heard a bazillion times he is), then we should have an article on him just like we do on every other clone. MasterFred^(Whatever) 16:29, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

• • there have been several occations were sith have, or attempted to, transfure their soles to other bodies. May I remind you how Darth Bane found that holocron that held the key to immortality by transfuring your sole to other bodies. Then he tried it on Zanna and failed due to her resistance, however there was still a little bit of him left in her after that. That same holocrone was latter given to Darth Tyranus, Vaders pretiseser. So maby Sidious kept that holocron and latter gave it to Vader who used it to to take Galens sole from the nether world of the force. Or maby it was the will of the force that Galen return from the dead live on in a clone body. There is evidance left and right that supports my thesis that Galen merik went from one body to another body in TFU2. And to finish it all off, the writers talk in the sence that they he is the same person. So regardless of everything it is healthiest to think of his two bodies as the same person. BTW in the expansive univers palpatine did the exact same thing as I discribed.
    • Nothing but speculation.
• We don't on Palpatine's clones.--Doctor Kermit^(Complain.) 16:42, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • Hmmmmm...we do on all the others though. Think about it. Every Republic clone we have an article on is just a clone of Jango Fett. We also have an FA on Luuke Skywalker. Maybe Palpatine's clones should have articles too. MasterFred^(Whatever) 16:47, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • We don't have articles on Palpatine's clones because Palpatine was able to transfer his spirit into those clone bodies each time he died. Therefore it was essentially still Palpatine, just with his soul in a cloned body of his original self. It is in no way implied that Starkiller had the same ability. The Starkiller Clone only has the imprinted memories and feelings of his template, and so he acts a lot like him but is not necessarily the original Marek. Even the other Starkiller Clone (the Dark Apprentice) shared the same visions and emotions, but overcame them unlike his predecessors. Furthermore, he was seen with Vader next to the dead body of the original Starkiller. If that doesn't tell anyone that the good clone is not the original Galen Marek, I don't know what does. JRT2010 18:10, October 28, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010
    • I think it's ok to have a new article for Marek's clone for he is a separate being from the original Starkiller. Dooku vigull 16:52, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
      • Please do not erase comments, yours or others'. I doubt you meant to, but just be careful. Thank you. MasterFred^(Whatever) 16:58, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
• This is the same sort of thing. Its the same sort of thing. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, and has the same memories, skills and personality of a duck, then its a duck. And it was never confirmed he was a clone. Vader could have lied. It could have been the original, restored and mind wiped, until things burst through. With two differing opinions, its best to leave things as they were. --Doctor Kermit^(Complain.) 21:23, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • You must not be paying any attention to the cinematics that can be unlocked by the Challenges then. Vader revealed the template's body to the dark clone for coming much further than his predecessors. Furthermore, it's not the same thing unless you count essence transfer, which Starkiller never learned. The novel itself disproves your theory. Page 146, Ni-Ke-Vanz said and I quote - "Each clone they make is a new person - one based to a very large degree on the original, but still one that has its own identity, its own memories, its own weird quirks. They don't think they're the same people, just different versions of the same template." So unless the Starkiller played in TFUII is at some point revealed to be the same Starkiller from the first game and not a clone after all, then the clone page should remain since it has already been heavily implied that he is a clone and the dead body of Galen Marek is in some cold storage on Kamino. JRT2010 22:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010
  • Also, everything you said after your whole "duck theory" is purely supposition. Yes, he was never absolutely confirmed to be a clone, but nor was he absolutely confirmed NOT to be a clone. "Vader could have lied. It could have been the original etc etc." - All of that is just speculation and borders on fanon. JRT2010 23:08, October 28, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010
    • It is not speculation, and it is certainly not fanon. That would be speculating that Vader was telling the truth to Marek for once. --Doctor Kermit^(Complain.) 23:15, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
      • The fact is that we just don't know, so we're going to go on what Vader told the character and what all the developers have been saying—the player character is a clone. If it's confirmed at some later time that this is indeed the original, then we can delete this page and merge the info. Until then, they'll stay separate. Darth Trayus^{(Trayus Academy)} 23:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
        • Okay, on that note I assume it will be appropriate to edit the original Galen Marek's page that has the clone Starkiller's info regarding TFU II on it. Since we must go with what Vader said, and what we saw in the Distant Thunder cutscenes, the original Marek was technically not resurrected in the sense that he and the clone are one and the same. 71.233.198.0 00:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010

After seeing the entire walkthrough of The Force Unleashed 2 game, it never shows neither way as to whether he is a clone or not. In the dark side ending an evil clone is revealed but since this isn't the canon ending of the game the dark clone is a non-canon character. General Kota insists that the clone is really Galen Marek. According to Kota no Jedi can be cloned. I feel that the seperate article pertaining to the clone should be closed and the information written in this article. Now the one thing that bugs me is that Rahm Kota's own apprentice Falon Grey was cloned successfully on Kamino producing X1 and X2. Kota would later run into X2 on Dantooine. At the end of the game Galen comes to believe it was Vaders trick telling him he was a clone. Therefore I feel it is important to include said information in this article and that the supposed clone and Galen Marek are one and the same and not two seperate individuals. As for the dark clone article it should be labeled non-canon since the character makes no appearence in the game except for in the dark side ending of the game and also the comic detailing the story which is also non-canon. Rac Ward

• The dark side ending is an alternate take on what could have happened. Starkiller's possible choice to strike Vader down does not magically snap the dark clone into existence. Implying something is not the same thing as confirming it. But there's a load of evidence that suggests the player character is a clone, including Vader's word and the fact that other clones all had the original Starkiller's memories and emotions. So for the last time - unless it is confirmed that the player character is the same guy from the first game, the articles remain separate as Darth Trayus already pointed out. Also, it has not been confirmed that the Distant Thunder cutscenes are non-canon. Unless it can be confirmed that they are also non-canon, they indicate that the Dark Clone is at least ambiguously canon. JRT2010 05:54, October 29, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010
• To add onto this: it's also possible that the Galen Marek that Vader showed the Dark Apprentice was really Galen and not a failed clone dressed up like Galen? I contend that the "Clone" is Really Galen with memory Loss as to what happened between FUI and II74.70.144.8 14:49, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Behind the scenes

In the behind the scenes section, it is mentioned that the dark side ending proves that the clone IS a clone and not the original. It also mentions Distant Thunder cinematics proving the same thing. Are these the same thing? I just want to make sure we arent mentioning the same thing twice. --The Great and Grand Count Mall! 06:16, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

• As far as can be told they are separate. The dark side ending is only an alternative take on what could have happened if Starkiller chose not to spare Vader's life. The Distant Thunder cinematics take place before the ending of the game, so they are part of the canon or at least ambiguously canon unless it is confirmed otherwise. Unless the player character is at some point later on confirmed to be the real Starkiller instead of a clone, ultimately we have to consider the fact that the clone IS a clone based on things like Vader's word, all of the other clones that shared the same memories and feelings of the original Starkiller, and the scene depicting Marek's dead body in Distant Thunder. JRT2010 06:44, October 30, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010
  • I forgot to add that basically the dark side ending further implies that the player character is a clone, but this is hard for others to accept as evidence since this alternate ending is non-canon. There is no evidence that the Distant Thunder cinematics are also non-canon, so not only do they bring the Dark Clone into Star Wars canon, but also add to the evidence that the player character is a clone of the original Starkiller. JRT2010 11:15, October 30, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010

I don't think the distant thunder cinematics are non canon because the good clone deciding to kill vader doesn't change what happened before the end.--SUP3RCHUBBY 18:31, October 30, 2010 (UTC)

• Now that's an interesting point I don't think anyone considered before. Others only considered his appearance in the dark side ending, but not the Distant Thunder cinematics. Just like in the first game, the ending gives you a choice between light or dark, but either way it doesn't change what happened before. This is evidence for the Dark Clone being part of Star Wars canon since the Distant Thunder cinematics happened before the ending. On that note, I think we can remove the "ambiguously canon" tag. JRT2010 19:21, October 30, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010

There is a lot of speculation on the Behind the Scenes section about whether or not the light and dark side endings follow two different storylines. There is no confirmation on this and as far as can be told, the game (and novel) follows one storyline up until the ending where the game gives the player two choices on how to end the game. This is because some people wonder if the Dark Apprentice exists in canon. In the novel, the Starkiller clone experienced a vision of what the Dark Apprentice would do if he decided to kill Vader, which adds to the evidence that the clone is part of the canon. Overall, the vision shows that Vader did create the Dark Apprentice, who did not interfere because the other clone chose to spare Vader instead of taking his life. The reason as to why the Dark Apprentice did not intervene when Vader was captured remains unknown and guessing about it is pointless. The speculation on whether the Dark Apprentice is non-canon or not should be removed. JRT2010 23:18, November 5, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010

5.3 Factual correction

Can someone answer my qustion, please? Is it true that all Sith or Jedi who are cloned will eventually turn insane? And if they do, what about X1 and X2, they're clones of a Jedi and they haven't gone insane yet.

• Starkiller was the bajillionth clone of Galen Marek and the first one that didnt go insane. Its a major plotpoint. Hell, it IS the plot. And X1 was crazy, if not totally insane. --The Great and Grand Count Mall! 07:05, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
• Not all of them, no. The reason the original clones of Galin Marek went insane was because of the accelerated growth process, coupled with the fact that they all had his memories and Darth Vader was forcing them to kill the person he loved over and over again as part of their training/brainwashing. I would say the insanity is more of a result of the conditions the Dark Lord was imposing on them, except for the ones with serious and obvious genetic malformations like the Aberrant clones of Galen Marek. --DarthZaiger 17:07, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
  • The reason for their insanity is not stated in the game. Unless it's explained within the novel, it's basically speculation and original research to apply logic from Thrawn's jedi cloning attempts to TFUII. SinisterSamurai 17:10, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
    • Applying logic from another Canon source in EU is original research? Also yes I was just giving my opinion, which is why I said "I would say" and not "This is what happened", sorry if I didn't make that more clear. --DarthZaiger 17:20, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
    • I'm sorry, what I actually meant to say was do clones of forse-sensitives always go insane? Sorry for not being more clear.
    • Actually, I remember reading something from an article on clones here on Wookiepedia that established something called "clone madness" or something like that. From what I remember, it established the presence of a "double image" each clone makes in the Force which causes them to go mad. I'm not certain of my terminology, but I do remember the concept well. It can be observed in several cases of cloning. -General Quilix 21:18, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Cloned on board the Empirical?

In the TFU 1 novelization, the apprentice notices that his rebuilt body has none of the scars he had obtained over the years; as well, I don't think he would have survived after being in hard vacuum that long. Does this mean the the Galen Marek that awakened on the Empirical was also a clone? --Darth Praxus ^{(Did somebody order a miracle?)} 20:15, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

• I don't know, but there's no confirmation on that so far. As it goes so far based on what the games and novels show us - Starkiller was saved by Vader after the incident on the Executor, but died on the Death Star and was cloned multiple times later on. JRT2010 02:44, November 6, 2010 (UTC)JRT2010
• More likely than not this is a side effect of the strong dark side healing abilities it would have taken to heal him from the shiak he received from Vader. Think about the damage a lightsaber would do going through your abdomen. The good part is that you wouldn't bleed out due to instant cauterizing, but all of the organ's it touched would be well-done steak on contact. Vader must have used some serious dark side healing in order to fix Starkiller's insides, which would more than likely heal the small scars he had collected throughout his life. Just a theory though, as it wasn't explained. Hopefully someone they will publish this saga as told from Vader's POV, but sadly I don't really see that happening. --DarthZaiger 21:18, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
• He was probably healed by force healing and the medical droids. It is possible that after Galen's death that some or all of the clones were produced from blood samples taken on the Empirical. --Emperordmb 14:24, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
• I agree with that thought.Captain Skellie 03:42, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Tutaminis?

Is it possible that Starkiller was using a function of Tutaminis (ie, Force Absorption) to channel/absorb and amplify/redirect his Force lightning? --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 00:31, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

• It is absolutely possible, his ability matches all descriptions of Tutaminis. Unfortunately, the nitpickers on this site are going to rant and rave about how his usage is never explicitly stated in any source. Jensaarai 04:28, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
  • I doubt that they would rant over this half as much as they do over whether Starkiller is a clone or not... But yeah, near as I can tell, he did use Tutaminis to amplify his lightning. JRT2010 10:37, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
    • Didn't it show him absorbing the electricity and then channeling it to Vader in the form of force lightning in the games final fight sequence? If that is not proof I don't know what is. --DarthZaiger 17:45, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

5.3 Factual correction

Are the abberent clones suffering form clone madness due to their fast growth? Are they crazy because of the newly developed "accelerated cloning process" side affects? Or are they insane due to their memories of the past haunting them to that point?

• Both are the problem, according to Vader and as seen exhibited by the aberrant clones, Starkiller, and the Dark Apprentice. As I understand it, they are grown within a few short weeks and forced to absorb a lifetime of memories; they don't recall everything at once, just certain memories (depending on each clone), or memories that teach them how to use the original Starkiller's fighting skills and Force techniques. The aberrant clones were virtually born insane, while more developed clones like Starkiller and the Dark Apprentice were affected by the imprinted memories. Another problem was that the clones inherited certain emotions that Marek possessed; some were affected by memories of Marek's father; others were affected by Marek's younger self; at least one clone would not strike down a training droid because it resembled PROXY (as stated in the training droids' Databank profile); and Juno Eclipse in the cases of Starkiller and the Dark Apprentice. JRT2010 19:23, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

5.3 Factual correction

Does anyone else find it funny that Darth Vader wants Starkiller brought to him alive yet every foe you fight in the game is trying to kill you? Like the Carbonite Wardroid, he'll spray with carbonite and when they got you captured he smashes you to pieces anyway. Or Darth Vader could be neutral on whether or not he's alive or dead just so long as he's dealt with.

• I doubt that Vader expected things like stormtroopers or Carbonite Wardroids to do anything other than slow Starkiller down. As Marek mused before his death, Vader didn't care about anything, whether it's Imperial lives or resources, as long as his goals were accomplished. JRT2010 07:53, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

Which ending happened?

In the video game, you can choose what happens at the end. The light side, or dark side. However, which one actually happened in the story? I believe it was the happy ending, but we know that not all stories can end nice. In conclusion, which was part of George Lucas' trilogy? ~ ANR0328 17:17, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

• • there was a DURL that expanded on what happend after the dark side ending that contradicted the canon story. This proves that the light side ending is what happended.

The light side ending. It usually is the canonical. Marcheto 18:51, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

What does it say in the novel based on the game? Manga (talk • contribs) 22:01, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

He spares Vader–the light side ending in the game. Read the article it's all there. Marcheto 08:10, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, it's just in the game there are two endings. They also have a paragraph on the dark side ending. So I was confused. Anyway, thanks!

ANR0328 ♦ 2/25/11 - 02:02 (UTC)

DLC costumes

The DLC has been out for a while now, so shouldn't we have some images of Starkiller's costumes, like the Blood Armor or the Jedi Protector gear or the Neimoidian shadow robes? We have some pics of the DLC for the first game, I think we should for this one, too. And I'd do it, but I don't know how, so it's up to somebody else, unfortunately.--ARC Commander Colt 17:03, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

The Source that Proves Starkiller is a clone

Even though the debate on this subject has finally died down for a while now, I'll still post this site and explain how it provides a canon-source information on Starkiller's origin. On the StarWars.com website (http://www.starwars.com/explore/video-games/the-force-unleashed/the-force-unleashed-ii/), under Relationships (Darth Vader), the site states that Vader "has recreated his most powerful apprentice --the Starkiller-- through mysterious means in the cloning laboratories of Kamino." So there it is, straight from a source that's as canon as it gets. Starkiller is a clone of the original Starkiller, who is well and truly dead…as mentioned in the SWTFU2 website (http://lucasarts.com/games/theforceunleashed2/game/index.html?t=en_US). JRT2010 08:35, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

It only theuy he has recreatet him in the cloning laboratories. It dose not they he actuelly cloned him. He might have done someting different and the cloning laboratories were just the location where he did it, but might oder might not have been used. Gulomi Jomesh 13:28, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

P.S. It also says somewere that he cloned Starkiller, but nowhere that this one is a clone. There are other clones of Galen Marek that could be meant. Gulomi Jomesh 13:32, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

• Actually it does refer to this one as a clone, separate from the original Starkiller. In The Force Unleashed II website, under game info (characters), Starkiller's profile says "With his death, (the original) Starkiller robbed Vader of the opportunity to destroy the Emperor…" In Vader's profile, it states that "Vader has cloned the original Starkiller…" and that the subject later escapes from Kamino. And of course, there is the Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II (comic) which is definitely canon and explicitly refers to this character as a renegade clone. JRT2010 18:07, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Just because he's a clone doesn't mean he can't also be the real Galen Marek. Several other characters have transferred their consciousness that way, and at least one did so without actually knowing how. Some Force users just happen to have natural, instinctive affinity for what are normally extremely advanced abilities. 24.214.230.66 00:02, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

• No speculation allowed on the talk page. JRT2010 04:39, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Discrepancy?

I've just noticed something in the Force Unleashed games, its probably nothing, but you know when Marek duels Vader & is "killed" at the end of FU 1 he is wearing the Jedi Adventure Robe, but when Vader shows the Dark Apprentice Marek's "corpse" he is wearing his Sith Training Gear, odd, I reckon Starkiller is not a clone. --DK Wolf 27 ^Commlink 01:40, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

• Hi there, why that may indeed be true, Wookieepedia is not the place for speculation or trivia. Corellian Premier^{All along the watchtower} 01:47, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
  • Fair enough no speculation, but the main part of what I said was no different from the types of things written in the behind the scenes & contradictions sections of the article...and other articles--DK Wolf 27 ^Commlink 01:54, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
    • It could be noted as a continuity error in the Contradictions subsection, but I don't think anything more could be said without venturing into speculation. // ~mikah~ 17:41, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

we sure?

It really dose'nt seem likely he is a clone, just saying. But if he is does that make Mualkiller and the Dark clone his "borthers" ?--Darthahsokaboyfrenidfett 21:27, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

• TFU II never completely explained either way, so we have to assume he is a clone until proven otherwise.—Cal Jedi ^{(Personal Comm Channel)} 21:30, April 24, 2012 (UTC)
  • Until, the Force Unleashed III, shouldn't the fact that he is or isn't a clone remain ambiguous rather than outright assuming he is a clone? Or at least appending an "ambiguously canon" tag to the article title? Jartka'irn 06:16, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Apperance

Is anyone else hoping that he makes a reapperance in the near-future, he's a really good character and it would be so awesome that he comes back somehow. —Unsigned comment by Phantombeast (talk • contribs)

• Talk pages are for talking about changes to the articles. They aren't here for talking about the subject, so this question would be better served at a forum somewhere. Also, when leaving messages, please sign your posts with four tildes like so: ~~~~ NaruHina ^Talk ml 07:10, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Calling Starkiller an "It" instead of a "He"

If Starkiller is a clone of the original Galen Marek, why not call him an "it" since the clone itself is a creation of the deceased Jedi's Genetic Template? ~~~~ Paladin78 ^{Talkml[[File:AnakinSolo.png|14px]]}

Because he's male. --Potsk (talk) 18:03, May 15, 2020 (UTC)

when do we call other clones it instead of he Joe217 14:15, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Move to "Subject 1138"

Per naming policy, the most formal/official name. --Potsk (talk) 11:32, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

• Seems relatively straightforward to me, although I think some people would object and argue that he adopted the identity of "Starkiller" or something to that effect. But as I recall, he never saw himself as Starkiller because of his origins as a clone. JRT2010 (talk) 21:45, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Right, the top quote even says "I'm not Starkiller" -Starkiller. --Potsk (talk) 07:14, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
• Not sure about that, that quote is from earlier in the game, when he loses his confidence, by the end of it, he says: "You told me i'm a clone, but i chose to spare you. Maybe Kota is right, maybe this is all a trick in order to get me so confused, that i forget who i really am" which tells us he now considers himself Starkiller given his wording. -KypDurronFanboy, 25/08/2021.