Talk: Phoenix Cell

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Phoenix Cell is within the scope of WookieeProject: Rebels, an effort to develop comprehensive and detailed articles with topics originating in or related to the Star Wars Rebels TV series.
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/Canon tag

I think in this case the /Canon postscript isn't needed, since it isn't the Canon version of Phoenix Squadron. So this should probably be moved to Phoenix Squadron (A-wings or Rebel network). Corellian PremierJedi symbolThe Force will be with you always 15:00, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

  • We could just leave it at /Canon and remove the link to the Legends Phoenix Squadron, and remove the canon page link from the Legends page. Cevan (talk) 17:31, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

Appearances

The appearance section seems rather small. I'd figure that any appearance of Phoenix A-Wings would warrant an appearance for the Squadron at large? --Clonehunter(Report your W.M.D.) 10:18, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

Season 3

Phoenix Squadron will appear in Season 3121.45.224.75 09:52, September 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I did see a pilot like Phoenix Leader being killed by TIE Interceptors in Enter Thrawn. JS-4422 10:30, September 6, 2016 (UTC)

Merge with Phoenix rebel cell

Are we sure that the Phoenix rebel cell is a separate thing from Phoenix Squadron? The entire cell is collectively called Phoenix Squadron in Rebels itself; the Databank's entry on the group hasn't really been updated since the Season 2 premier, while Phoenix rebel cell on appears in Jun Sato's entry, with Phoenix Squadron nowhere to be found. In my opinion, all content from Phoenix rebel cell should be merged into Phoenix Squadron, while the former can remain as a redirect. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 01:57, January 10, 2017 (UTC)

  • I wasn't too sure about merging them before, but I agree that they should be merged now. Like you said, the entire cell has been referred to in Rebels as just "Phoenix Squadron" multiple times now. I think the main reason the Phoenix rebel cell page existed for a while because it mainly served as the rebel fleet page, but we now have a separate page for that, making the Phoenix cell page rather redundant. Cevan IMPpress (talk) 02:11, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
    • I am pretty sure they are referring to the a-wing squadrons. --JS-4422 02:15, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
      • That was the original context from the Databank entry, yes, but the term has, for a while, been applied to the entire collective. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 02:19, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
        • I'm sure that Phoenix rebel cell is for the whole cell including the military, the ships (because even though there's a rebel fleet page, not all of them are from Phoenix) and commanders. The squadron is just for the specific unit inside the cell. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:39, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
        • I believe, too, that they should be merged now. Only makes since now that the cells are starting to merge. And they really appear to be the same exact unit in every way. –Nivlacanator(talk) 02:41, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
          • http://www.starwars.com/databank/phoenix-squadron , Phoenix Squadron is the A-Wing group, the cell is the whole including the squadron and the ships --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:45, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
            • That source hasn't been updated since the S2 opener, and more sources than not say PS is the entire cell, not just the A-wings. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 03:12, January 17, 2017 (UTC)
              • I agree that they should be merged, the Specters identify themselves as "from the Phoenix Squadron" throughout the entire show. And at the time that Databank entry released (Siege of Lothal), the Specters had not joined the Phoenix Squadron. TanDivoInsignia-SenateMurders AnilSerifoglu (talk) 03:19, January 22, 2017 (UTC)
                • Here goes what I said on the Phoenix rebel cell talk "As I stated before, we should wait for an official confirmation. Although we hear that is commonly called Phoenix Squadron we dont have the certainty of the name. Yes I know the Databank hasnt been updated but there's a reason why both of them are mentioned. Is just like talking about a squadron and the organization if I say I'm a blue angels pilot that doesnt mean that the Navy is calle Blue Angels, if someone says there go the Blue Angels fighters not the Navy fighter. I know is possible that I'm wrong but we should wait a little bit longer." Thanks --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 08:45, January 22, 2017 (UTC)
                  • In "Secret Cargo," one of the Gold Squadron pilots indentifies the entire Ghost crew as members of Phoenix Squadron, a statement that would be incorrect if they were only an A-wing squadron, as only Hera flies as part of it. - Pyke syndicate AV-6R7Crew Pit 23:57, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
                    • Because is the common name that they heard, Gold Squadron is Dodonna's unit and they dont introduce themselves as Dodonna's cell name --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:11, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                      • We can now add "Double Agent Droid" to the list of sources that refer to the entire Phoenix cell (Spectres included) as "Phoenix Squadron," per the preview at the end of the "Secret Cargo" Rebels Recon. Cevan IMPpress (talk) 00:31, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                        • There's still no confirmation that's the case, Fenn Rau call the Journeyman Protector as just Protectors, so its the same. I'll go and wait for the official confirmation, since a Squadron generally is just fighters not the ships.--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:54, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                          • You're saying that the Journeyman Protectors and the Protectors are the same, right? You would be correct about that, but by that logic aren't you saying that the Phoenix cell and Phoenix Squadron are the same, thus supporting your opposition? Cevan IMPpress (talk) 01:00, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
                            • Sorry, I didnt explained myself and fully wrote what I was thinking. I meant that just because someone just call the cell as Phoenix Squadron doesnt mean that they know they full name or even if they are correct. Fenn Rau calls the Journeymans as only Protectors, people called the Spectres as Ghost crew, I know that those cases are the same thing but the point is we waited until a official confirmation to add Journeymans to the name or change from Lothal rebels to Spectres, same goes to this. Until the databank still indicates The squadron as the A-wings it should stay like that, until a new source indicates that Phoenix Squadron is the real name of the cell. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:07, March 6, 2017 (UTC)

That feels like a reach. If the show is constantly saying one thing, trust the show. Let's merge the pages. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 01:15, March 6, 2017 (UTC)

  • Wouldn't be the right move to do. Until a more concrete answer. I think that would be the smartest thing to do --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:24, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • Agreed. The show has referred to the entire cell as "Phoenix Squadron" numerous times now, and the only source calling them the "Phoenix rebel cell" is from a Databank entry written a couple months short of two years ago. Cevan IMPpress (talk) 01:27, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
    • This idea of waiting for concrete answers to easily answerable questions is unnecessary. This is not the type of thing that creators talk about or write down. It's so straight-forward that it doesn't need to be addressed. If the show is using Phoenix Squadron to describe the cell, that's what we should do too. "Wait for a more concrete answer" is unnecessarily and, to be honest, obsessive-compulsively difficult. The consensus here is to merge them, so I'm going to go ahead and do that. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 01:28, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
      • Ok, go ahead and do it. Already save both articles in case of future references.--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:32, March 6, 2017 (UTC)

Y-wings

So, in Zero Hour, we see both green and red Y-wings. Red ones are clearly seen exiting the Carrier, and are seen again later, when one is shot down. In the Mid-season trailer, we see red y-wings and one gets shot down. However in zero hour, these y-wings are green instead (where the female pilot dies). My issue is, we still see red y-wings exiting the PHOENIX carrier. So is this an error, are they red squadron, or are they Phoenix squadron y-wings. Cheers Blitzbugz (talk) 22:21, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

Reference/Existence in A New Hope?

Hi! I was watching a YouTube video and one eagle-eared viewer mentioned a quick audio reference to "Phoenix Squadron" in A New Hope, just as Luke, Han, and Leia enter the Massassi Temple Base. (It's like the first or second interior shot of the base. In my edition of the film, it happens at around 1:38:31)

Does this mean Phoenix Squadron recollects itself after the attack from Thrawn? Or is this a completely separate Phoenix Squad? I didn't just wanna edit the main page without consulting the Star Wars community first. It seems a lot of people haven't noticed this line of dialogue.

Thanks for reading! JC Michaels (talk) 19:33, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

Rename to Phoenix Fleet

  • Can create a new page called Phoenix Fleet because I think they are referring to the squadron of A-wings itself. Or Phoenix Squadron fleet. JS-4422 (talk) 08:10, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Front Lines

The book mentions Phoenix Squadron but I don't think it refers to this Phoenix Squadron but to the A-Wing squadron--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 23:52, July 21, 2017 (UTC)

  • Yeah so? JS-4422 (talk) 00:09, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
    • Its because the article says "Date reorganized c. 5 ABY", as I would undestand it is that the Cell was back for that time and not the A-wing squadron--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:17, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
      • I think it's speculation to say it's the same squadron, unless its stated elsewhere that they're the same squadron --Lewisr (talk) 01:04, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
        • I think it should be like the Blue Squadron and Blue Squadron (Vrogas Vas) situation with two different articles--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 01:06, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

The reference book Star Wars: Complete Locations says RZ-1 A-wing interceptors of the Phoenix Squadron are housed in the Great Temple of Massassi. --178.220.63.84 03:00, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

  • This brings up a debate as to whether they ever disbanded (and therefore contradicting the episode guide) --Lewisr (talk) 03:04, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
    • When we merged the articles Phoenix rebel cell and Phoenix Squadron, my main objection was that, I think that the cell and squadron are separate, and I think that the cell was destroyed but the A-wing squadron continued their service as a separate unit, but its pure speculation of my part. --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:08, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
      • I don't think the cell is separate from the squadron, it was always refereed to Phoenix Squadron in the show, if they were separate they could have easily made it clear, but that isn't relevant here. It seems that the remaining personnel of the cell could have joined the Massassi group and like Red/Gold/Green squadrons they operate as individual squadrons within the overall group --Lewisr (talk) 03:19, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
        • Not what I was saying , I mean the Squadron is a stand-alone thing like Gold/Corona/Red/Blue.... that's why its possible that the Phoenix Squadron (Unit not cell) could be in the Massasi Temple and in the Battle of Jakku. (By Unit I refer the actual A-Wing squadron)--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:24, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
          • I think I see what you mean, so like we originally said about having a separate page for it? --Lewisr (talk) 03:28, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
            • Yup, that's what I'm saying. Phoenix Squadron can be the name for both a cell and a actual A-wing squadron. Creating a new page for the A-Wing squadron--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:31, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
              • IIRC, Complete Locations only said that the A-wing bore the Phoenix insignia, not that the unit was still active. Some Rebel pilots kept the defunct Tierfon Yellow Aces' emblem on their helmets after they were transferred to Red and Blue Squadrons. - Imperial Information Office AV-6R7Crew Pit 03:33, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
                • That's true, although I think the Front Lines says that Phoenix Squadron was there, not sure since I'm still missing my copy of the book--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:36, July 22, 2017 (UTC)
                  • Then it's likely a new squadron under the name Phoenix Squadron was present at Jakku --Lewisr (talk) 03:38, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

That seems the most appropriate thing to do --Lewisr (talk) 03:43, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

Phoenix Squadron lives In the Name of the Rebellion. --178.220.21.166 04:52, October 30, 2017 (UTC)

Phoenix Squadron arising from the ashes

Well we know from On the front Lines, that Phoenix Squadron makes a comeback, as in Phoenix Squadron (Jakku), but couldn't it make an appearance in Rebel Assault, as some of the squadron used Phoenix callsigns, Mart Mattin was Phoenix Two, Cleat was Phoenix Four and Duke (pilot) was Phoenix Five.Jkirk8907 (talk) 20:43, November 13, 2017 (UTC)

  • Cleat's databank says she's known as Phoenix Four in the rebellion's vaunted Phoenix Squadron --Lewisr (talk) 06:00, November 14, 2017 (UTC)
    • So is that a yes on Phoenix Squadron appearing in this episode?Jkirk8907 (talk) 16:55, November 14, 2017 (UTC)
      • Asked this question to Matt Martin last week on twitter. https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/927964637743714304 Seems like a no unfortunately--Vitus Infinitus (talk) 16:58, November 14, 2017 (UTC)
        • Since we're not taking tweets into consideration, how are we handling Phoenix being active past the Battle of Atollon?--Vitus InfinitusTalk 01:59, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
          • Phoenix Squadron as a cell is no more, but the actual squadron or at least the name is still active after Atollon. Also the Phienix Squadron from Jakku is a NR unit, we don't know if its related to this Phoenix Squadron, just like Blue Squadron (Vrogas Vas). --DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:24, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
            • In In the Name of the Rebellion, Kanan mentions Phoenix Group, although that's the only time it's been mentioned and every other time the unit was referred to as a whole was still Phoenix Squadron--Vitus InfinitusTalk 03:15, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
              • This was one objection I had when Phoenix rebel cell and Phoenix Squadron were merged, I think that both of them exist or at least existed and the continuation of seeing Phoenix Squadron as a military unit after the destruction of their cell is prove enough that there's a squadron on the Rebel Alliance that carries on the rebel cell name--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:28, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
  • Matt stated on twitter before that the Phoenix callsigns could just be on a mission by mission basis, and not an actual unit, but as discussed in the CT, he could be wrong and so we need to decide how to handle this. My issue with Phoenix Group and Phoenix Squadron being two separate units, although it makes sense, is contradictory as the rebel cell as a whole was called Phoenix Squadron in multiple episode, sources, etc. Sato in Star Wars: The Rebel Files refers to his unit as Phoenix Squadron, and I haven't seen any mention of Phoenix Group anywhere else except Kanan's one or two lines about it in In the Name of the Rebellion--Vitus InfinitusTalk 03:39, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
    • Doesn't mean that both cell and squadron can't be called the same. (Pure speculation) Maybe they started as a squadron and that became cell after more ships joined them, but they kept the same name. There's a lot possibilities, but I think there should be two pages or at least note as I did that the cell was just destory, but the name Phoenix Squadron was kept during the Alliance--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 03:55, January 26, 2018 (UTC)
  • So far throughout Season Four, Phoenix callsigns appear during Hera's supply mission in "In the Name of the Rebellion" (Leader) and the attack on Lothal in "Rebel Assault" (Leader, Two, Four and Five). Unrelated to starfighter combat, Ezra uses a Phoenix callsign during the theft of the TIE Defender Elite in "Flight of the Defender" (Six). --05:33, January 26, 2018 (UTC) —Unsigned comment by 178.220.58.101 (talk • contribs)

Alliance sector fleet

What does the Rebel files say about Phoenix Squadron being an Alliance sector fleet?Jkirk8907 (talk) 14:49, January 27, 2018 (UTC)

Retroactive cinema

Hello,

new evidence has surfaced via The Forcecast that there is an audio Easter Egg added to the 2011 re-issue of A New Hope. The Squad is being paged via the intercom at Yavin Base. Is this ok to add to the article? Corellian PremierJedi symbolThe Force will be with you always 16:30, February 26, 2018 (UTC)

Units

So Dawn of Rebellion differentiates between Phoenix Cell, Phoenix Cell's fleet, and Phoenix Nest carrying Phoenix Squadron. This would be supported by Kanan Jarrus calling the unit "Phoenix Group" in the season 4 episode In the Name of the Rebellion, and Hera continuing to serve as Phoenix Leader and her squadron having the callsigns Phoenix Two and so on during season 4, because the overall unit and fleet were destroyed, but not the actual squadron.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:27, March 23, 2018 (UTC)

  • There is also Phoenix Command, which is the command unit of Phoenix Cell--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:32, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
    • Any details saying who was part of Phoenix Command?Jkirk8907 (talk) 14:38, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
    • How does it differentiate? What exactly does it say? --Lewisr (talk) 14:53, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
      • My friend is going to send images soon, though I'll be home (and my internet is down) likely before he sends them. My internet should be fixed in several hours so I'll share the specific details when I'm able to today--Vitus InfinitusTalk 14:59, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
  • Okay so here's the info:
1) "Phoenix Cell of the growing resistance movement recently came to Atollon to found a base of operations."
2) "While most fo the cell's members still bunker on a ship in their fleet, many transferred to Chopper Base."
3) "Atollon is the latest headquarters for Phoenix Cell, the heart of the resistance movement's forces in the Lothal sector."
4) "Only when AP-5, a droid serving as quartermaster at an Imperial installation, compared Imperial and Republic databanks to Chopper's Lasat star charts did the rebellious droid recongize the system's suitability to host Phoenix Cell's fleet."
5) "Rebel Commander Jun Sato leads Phoenix Cell, an element of the broader resistance movement created in part by Alderaanian Senator Bail Organa. Sato Commands his fleet of corvettes and crusiers from the Quasar Fire-class light carrier Liberator, which carries Phoenix Squadron, a group of A-wings with elite pilots. Commander Sato has also allied himself with Captain Hera Syndulla of the Ghost."
6) "Phoenix Command—From Chopper Base, Phoenix Cell launches a variety of resistance missions, each watched closely by Commander Jun Sato from his Atollon command center or the bridge of his flagship."
7) Commander Sato frequently deploys Phoenix Squadron, the Ghost and other capital ships on daring raids against Imperial targets throughout the sector."
-Vitus InfinitusTalk 21:37, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
  • Well I think that's pretty clear then --Lewisr (talk) 00:24, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
    • I think the Phoenix Cell's fleet can be kept inside the Phoenix Squadron (Cell) page and just create the Phoenix Squadron (unit) for the starfighter squad--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 00:27, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
  • We'll just create it at Phoenix Squadron --Lewisr (talk) 15:06, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

Does anyone remember these? --178.220.167.95 01:20, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

At the time it was pretty clear they should've been merged --Lewisr (talk) 01:48, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

  • Yup, a concensus was reached and the merge happened, but still we can always recreate the article. Now should we use the old Phoenix rebel cell name or move it to Phoenix Cell?--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 02:25, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
    • Probably Phoenix rebel cell but I don't really mind either way --Lewisr (talk) 02:29, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
      • What about Pheonix Group? It's what's used in the show and is consistant with Massassi Group. - AV-6R7Crew Pit 02:39, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
        • That works for me --Lewisr (talk) 02:42, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
          • Sounds good to me too--DarthRuiz30 (talk) 04:06, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
            • What about this Phoenix Squad thing from Episode IV? Some Corellian dude added it to the page, claiming it's the Phoenix Squadron/Phoenix Group/whatever it's called now. --178.220.167.95 12:46, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

Name

This article's recent move to "Phoenix Group" was done in error. I'm to understand no source ever refers to this subject as "Phoenix Group" (capitalized). The only use of that term comes from "In the Name of the Rebellion," which has no great way at present to determine whether the use there is capitalized or not. The most official outlet we have for this episode until it comes out on home video is the Disney Now app, which does not capitalize the term in that episode's subtitles. Therefore, "Phoenix group" (uncapitalized) should not be considered the most formal name for this subject, per the Naming policy. Instead, it should probably be moved to "Phoenix Cell," which is the most recent and formal version of the name we have, per Dawn of Rebellion. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:44, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

  • Actually, the Phoenix Cell is a shortened version of the Phoenix rebel cell, which is the full and most formal name. --178.220.167.95 21:16, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
    • I agree with Tope, Phoenix Cell appears to be the most formal name. I don't know how often "Phoenix rebel cell" is used in sources, but in Jun Sato's Databank entry that this article uses as a source, the use of "Phoenix rebel cell" contextually looks more like a descriptor than a full and formal name. No other rebel cell with a name is named like that. - Brandon Rhea(talk) 21:23, March 24, 2018 (UTC)
      • I agree, Phoenix Cell is the most formal name. I don't think "Phoenix rebel cell" would work either and since off the top of my head it's only used in the databank, we shouldn't consider it more formal than Phoenix Cell.--Vitus InfinitusTalk 22:21, March 24, 2018 (UTC)