I have a question. Based on everything i'v read about the Matukai, It looks like they are superior to all Jedi in both their discipline as a Light side order, as well as their concentrated areas "Physical & Spiritual". Why don't they have more stories expounding upon the history of their order and their individuals? I'm a bit curious about the legendary Mendor Typhoons and also that unidentified Matukai adept who gave Cerulian a nightmarish thrashing. --Minomik "The Cosmic" (talk) 06:31, October 19, 2013 (UTC)
Erroneous/nonsensical literature
From what I've read concerning the Matukai as a whole, there is no way the accounts on the Matukai's fate said by both the source canon in which introduced them and later sources were correct:
"A fully trained Matukai is a master of his own body. He can feel every wound, injury, and sickness inflicted upon him. He can Force his body to reject the venom of a deadly Kouhun, or pass through a village ravaged by a plague and never contract it. Matukai have excellent balance thanks to the Force and can push themselves longer and farther than most beings. The Matukai are known to use the Force in many of the same ways the Jedi do, from making incredible leaps and tumbles to dashing rapidly away and withstanding enormous amounts of pain. They are completely in control of the physical aspects of their beings and are able to manipulate their bodies in ways others find almost unnatural."
It was either page 144 or 145 of the Hero's guide that stated this. Since they have complete control over all physical aspects of their beings, this not only implied that they could control and accelerate their body's healing rate without using the Force, but it strongly suggest that they have powers in metamorphism (as the appearance of one's self is a physical aspect of one's being). That and it stipulates that every graduate of Matukai training carries an ambidextrous mastery (as the left & right sides of the brain are the internal parts of the physical being acting as a corresponding interconnection to the efficiency of the motor functions).
There is no way weakling inquisitors or even Darth Vader for that matter managed to find any Matukai Adepts. Attempting to find someone (Matukai) that can change the external & internal distinguishabilities that inscribed them characteristically-speaking, is equivalent - if not more difficult than finding an adhere to the "Wardens of the Sky" Force philosophy. Matukai Adepts were said to be far beyond some of the greatest Jedi Masters on average concerning matters of the body and spirit (what's labeled as the "Control" aspect of the Force, apart from the "Sense" and "Alter" areas). Saying that an inquisitor could defeat a Matukai Adept in combat is no different from saying Darth Vader could take Mace Windu in a lightsaber duel. I think this discrepancy should be addressed in the "Behind the scenes" section.
Control: "The abilities that fall under the Control category are those that involve tapping into abilities hidden within one's body and spirit to expand and enhance what can already be done or to open new doors to talents the Force-user did not originally have. Powers and talents that improve a Force-user's speed, strength, or combat prowess fall under this category as well as healing one's own wounds."
How do Control Abilities work? "Allowing the Force to manipulate the body and its systems is probably one of the most easily understood applications of the Force and is one of the easiest to master. In fact, most other Force traditions besides the Jedi, such as the Matukai, have mastered control abilities to a better extent than the Jedi and are able to do far more with their bodies than some of the greatest Jedi Masters." ―Jedi Academy Training Manual [1] 'Page 47'--Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 09:00, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
- First off, this isthe talk page and its not meant to discuss the page, second there is nothing on the page that says they were wiped out by Darth Vader and the inquisitors. You literally just posed a three paragraph essay trying to prove they werent wiped out by Darth Vader and the Inquisitors, when the article itself specifically states they survived the empires attempt at genocide towards the.... you seem to be trying to prove taht not a single one of them was killed by the empire and its Inquisitors, if that is what happened in the store or lore that is what happened. Making up fan fiction wont change what is canon (or legends I guess...) but like Isaid, what is even the point of trying to prove that none were killed when the organization as a whole survived? Also there are tons of shapeshiftign species in the galaxy, I am sure they get tracked down from time to time... also total control of their bodies, doesnt mean making their bodies able to do something... their bodies cant do. Just... dude... how did I get roped into this, talk pages arent meant for discussion of the lore, but rather the page. ralok (talk)
What part of "they can do far more with their bodies than some of the greatest Jedi Masters" did you not undestand?
With the passing of time, the Matukai way waxed and waned. As the Clone Wars came and went and Lord Vader began his Jedi Purge, the already scattered Matukai vanished into hiding, or, more frequently, were captured and exterminated by the Empire's Inquisitors. ―Hero's Guide 'page 143'
"Although the Matukai try to avoid being drawn into the conflict between the Republic and the Separatist, they did not go unnoticed. Once Order 66 is issued by Emperor Palpatine and the Jedi are swept aside, the Matukai become one of the first Force-using traditions to fall under the new Empire's hammer, and most of its members are killed at the hands of Lord Vader and his contingent of Imperial troops." ―Jedi Academy Training Manual 'page 80' (history).
The written science behind the Matukai's abilities contradicts the very literature behind their supposed fate, i was hoping this discrepancy would be addressed in a section on here--Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 22:32, March 29, 2015 (UTC)
- It doesnt matter because this is not a place to discuss the organization itself, or what the potential force powers of members of the organization are... There is no discrepency, your idea that they can shapeshift is a complete and utter fabrication... and even if they could shapeshift, there is no evidence to even remotely suggest that this would be an ability that would compeltely and utterly prevent them from being hunted down by the empire. Not that it matters, because they SURVIVED the empires attempted purge. You are just spewing non-sense, in the incorrect place to spew non-sense, about non-sense, because you disagree with a non-sense conclusions... Okay, I think you have a critical misunderstanding of the Matukais abilities bro, its not that they are more powerful than Jedi, its that they have a completely different set of skills. They channel the force through their bodies and use it as the conduit instead of things like lightsabers, telekinesis, and force lightning... They may be able to do far more with their bodies, but that doesnt mean they can do anything against a lightning bolt to the face... So stop posting fan fiction in an attempt to invalidate the canon. ralok (talk) 05:03, March 30, 2015 (UTC)
- His complaint isnt valid though, he just posted a bunch of fan ficiton and came to the conclusion that hte page was wrong because of his fan fiction. He is trying to Retcon the Matukai into not having suffered Genocide at the hands of the empire, when instead if he really believes that the Matukai have the abilities he claims (which they dont, not even remotely) he should be asaking himself How the empire was able to hunt them down. He is trying to bend the canon, and subsequently the information on the page, to fit his ideas... instead of bending his ideas to fit with the canon. Which is an extreeeeeeeeeeemely unproductive behaviour on a wiki, where the goal is first and foremost to make sure the information on it is as accurate as possible. ralok (talk) 05:13, March 30, 2015 (UTC)
Simple. They didn't (as the Inquisitors didn't have anything concrete to go by for identifying Matukai). "My idea?" "Complete and utter fabrication?" Did you even read the quotes I had posted before attempting to dismiss what's true? They do have powers in metamorphism, as was evidenced in 2 different quotes from the guide's info on them from both their Force powers and their prestige class description:
Force Powers "A fully trained Matukai is a master of his own body. He can feel every wound, injury, and sickness inflicted upon him. He can force his body to reject the venom of a deadly Kouhun, or pass through a village ravaged by a plague and never contract it. Matukai have excellent balance thanks to the Force and can push themselves longer and farther than most beings. The Matukai are known to use the Force in many of the same ways the Jedi do, from making incredible leaps and tumbles to dashing rapidly away and withstanding enormous amounts of pain. They are completely in control of the physical aspects of their beings and are able to manipulate their bodies in ways others find almost unnatural."
Matukai Adept Prestige Class: "Masters of the Force and controllers of their own bodies, the Matukai adepts are both formidable combatants as well as powerful Force-users. Their use of the wan-shen makes them difficult to get close to in combat, and when a lucky shot does manage to get through, the Matukai adept often can reduce the damage he takes from the attack thanks to physiology-manipulating techniques he has learned throughout the course of his training. The Matukai adepts can be found in many places throughout the galaxy, but wherever they are it is almost certain that they will quickly adapt to their surroundings."
If you're taking these quotes into the context in which they are implying, this means in a simplistic sense that Matukai can control how they look (appearance, since that's a physical aspect of their being), they can control their healing factors (since that's also a physical aspect of the being), and they can also control the level in which their bodies operate at (which includes the left and right sides of the brain: ambidexterity). You've turned a genuine concern regardng the discrepancy created between the friction of a Matukai Adept's inherent ability when looked at from a scientific analysis, and the written inconsistency in their biography, into a petty argument based on your personal feelings.
The Matukai have made their own bodies focusing centers for the Force, meaning as they concentrate harvested Force energy to be later circumvented for physical augmentation and adjustments in functionality, they contemporaneously grow in both the quantity of that energy as well as their potency in it. This perpetual cycle is the reason they can last the longest in terms of stamina when compared to even the most prominent of Force traditions (as was evidenced in the Academy Training Manual, as they are the poster-boys for the "Control" aspect of the Force). This isn't an advocation of my own ideas, but rather a request to present the understanding associated with the contextual intent of the particular categories in subject, as a notion worth mentioning in the "behind the scenes" section. I'm not asking that you guys edit the information archived here regarding their history or abilities. That is something the author is held accountable for, not the wiki from simply archiving what was given.--Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 16:38, March 30, 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I take back what i said. Improve this article by adding the fact that all Matukai are masters of the Force. Though exceeding fundamental boundaries in degree (although this undermines Bodo's statement concluding that "most of their members were individuals who wouldn't have qualified for Jedi training in the first place"):
"Many of the people the Matukai recruit have little inherent strength in the Force. The fact that these pupils become masters of the Force is a testament to the effectiveness of Matukai instruction."
―Jedi Academy Training Manual 'Page 80' (philosophy).--Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 21:11, April 5, 2015 (UTC)
What's the hold up here? Add and format to the article that all Matukai are masters of the Force just as they are masters of their own bodies. Their Force mastery was blatantly said by the Academy Training Manual, which stipulated that every student of Matukai instruction becomes a master of the Force (hence why they only add by 60, an emphasis on quality over quantity. And if you're going to argue that they didn't master all 3 areas of the Force, but rather just "Control" - go back to page 145 of the Hero's guide and look at their prestige class again).--Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 07:12, April 16, 2015 (UTC)
What the hell is going on here? It's been more than 2 months since I've brought this up and you guys aren't addressing the problem with the information given by these books in the section where this belongs, nor are you making attempts at adding new knowledge in association with the context given by the material on the Matukai, encyclopedically. Even when newer contributions to expand and enhance one's understanding are right here. I'm not going to edit the information in "behind the scenes" just to have it removed by fans who have formed a religion revolved around the differentiation of what's considered "canon hierarchy." I want to see how the Wookiee is going to address this (if they choose to at all at this point).--Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 12:09, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not quite sure why you're unable to do all that you're demanding yourself. That's kind of the point of being bold. Cade
Calrayn 17:35, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
Because the Wookiee and i have 2 different levels of understanding regarding these other aspects of Star Wars. So if I made note in a summarized fashion that Matukai Adepts were said to be far beyond some of the greatest Jedi Masters (like the quotes say but without using those exact words in a hypothetical sense) at a base average regarding the Control aspect of the Force, it wouldn't get deleted (even though it heavily implies nameless Matukai randoms are tiers above Jedi like Kit Fisto and Mace Windu primarily because of what they can do)? --Yashuvoo Sommin (talk) 18:01, April 18, 2015 (UTC)