Talk: Kyle Katarn/Archive1

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This page is an archive of the discussion of an article. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's current talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.

New Info

I personally don't have time to add any of this right now, but for those interested, a bunch of new biographical information has recently been put up at Wizards of the Coast's website, here. JSarek 18:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Too many images

As a fan of Kyle Katarn, I am a tad upset to see his page in such bad condition. I think there is an unhealthy picture-text ratio. Perhaps removing a few pictures would make it look better. -Dude Man

Death in Star by Star

Kyle was originally slated to die in the novel The New Jedi Order: Star by Star, but the scene was removed at the last minute, to leave open the possibility of any New Jedi Order era games.

Was Kyle going to lead the Myrkr Strike Team, or was he to die in the Fall of Coruscant? -- SFH 05:36, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

  • It's often assumed his death would be at one of the important climaxes in the book. However my personal suspicion is that he was going to be one of the Jedi casually axed by a voxyn at the beginning of the novel. I have no evidence for this, but given how much they wanted to establish the fact that the voxyn were a threat, and how few other places in the storyline he would have fit in, it seems most likely to me. jSarek 10:09, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • Well if the voxyn theory is true, thank God they did take it out. The man can break into an Imperial facility practically blindfolded, and a six legged, oversized rotwieler takes him out? They didn't remove it for a possible video game, they took it out for lack of believability. -- SFH 16:11, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)
    • And, man, would they be unpopular if they killed him off. And true, he killed seven Dark Jedi without having received any formal jedi training, so if he died this way, it would be really stupid. KEJ 10:47, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • What's the source for his slated death? Author commentary? --SparqMan 02:37, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Who created Mr. Katarn?

I'd just wanted to knew, thanks.

Justin Chin and the Dark Forces developement team did.--212.97.182.235 01:54, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Yet another boring canon argument

I cannot agree with the portion of the article that claims that Katarn is a canonical character, provided that this character is a videogame character and *not*from the movies or any book penned by George Lucas, nor by any spin-off or creation directly by George Lucas. I doubt the inclusion of Coruscant in the Star Wars movies is a "green light" to allow all Expanded Universe stuff as what will happen in the films or indicative of verity in knowing what Lucas has in mind for these characters. Yes, we are welcome to imagine what we will of Star Wars, but no, this does not make "canonical" any LucasArts game, various novels set in Lucas's universe (even if allowed by Lucas to legally use his characters, situations, and locations), nor fan fiction nor one's private roleplaying game. 70.226.128.198

  • Nevertheless, Katarn appears in several books that are considered canonical, such as many of the New Jedi Order books and Dietz' three novellas. It's the inclusion of Katarn into canonical pieces that makes him canonical as well. And I think you'd offend a whole range of authors by comparing Katarn and the Expanded Universe to fan fiction. Katarn as well as most other EU are, whether we like it or not (and believe you me, there are plenty of things in EU that I don't like), part of the Star Wars canon KEJ 16:38, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • Although I don't know why I'm wasting my time with someone who probably posted this just to stir up trouble, I advise you to read this for why he is called canonical. Kyle Katarn is C-Canon. StarNeptune
  • Your opinions on the nature of Star Wars canon are part of a shrinking (but still annoying) minority and at this point are largely irrelevant. Countless employees operating under the Lucas banner have made the situation abundantly clear, and if you don't like it then you can go away. They love closed-minded people like you on the Star Trek side of various ST-vs-SW arguments, try hanging out there. —Darth Culator (talk) 17:29, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • Don't bite the newcomers... - Sikon [Talk] 18:03, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
      • Sorry. But it's hard to avoid when someone basically attacks the fundamental nature of Wookieepedia. Just think about how much this site and others like it would suck without the EU. Think about how shallow the movies really are when they stand alone. When someone posts the same tired anti-EU nonsense, I feel an automatic compulsion to bitch-slap them. —Darth Culator (talk) 19:10, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
        • Heh. Well, whether or not they agree or disagree with Kyle's being canon, he IS canon. They have the right to dislike that, but it does not change the fact that he is canon. I just think that this person does not know anything about Star Wars canon (or Wookieepedia for that matter). I think StarNeptune did the right thing in hinting at that by linking to the relevant article. Basically, I think this "boring canon argument" was based on ignorance (I hope I'm not biting the newcomer here) KEJ 22:33, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
          • It seems every time I post on TF.N or SW.com, I always run into a newcomer like this who says something like "Well, the EU isn't canon anyway, but I think the Clone Wars series probably is, cause its cool. And I guess the live action series will be because Lucas will be involved and real people will be in it." And then of course, I say they are wrong, they ask me to explain, I give them a lengthy explanation, they still disagree with me, and they end up calling me a fanboy when I start using terms like G and C canon. They then try to criticise the entire idea and resort to "Still, the films are the only real canon." WTF?!? What's the deal with these people who seem to think that only the films can be canon? Why on earth would anyone want just the films to be canon. As Darth Culator said, the Star Wars films would be rather dry without the EU, as would Wookieepedia. General Kenobi 22:41, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
            • They are commonly referred to as Film purists. They are extremely stubborn; it is simply a waste of effort to argue with them, and a waste of emotion to get angry with them. They are best ignored. --Azizlight 23:20, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Kyle Katarn is canon. But the place of the videogames stories are confusing. I know Katarn was mentioned in passing in one of the New Jedi Order books, but I'm kinda glad the didn't give him the axe. Is it just me or does Katarn seem really similar to Corran Horn? ~Anonymous Star Wars Fan

  • It is more likely that Corran Horn's character was influenced by Kyle Katarn since Katarn debuted in Dark Forces in February 1995 and Corran debuted in August 1995. Of course that is a few months and with publishing and programming time, they might have been created around the same time. Also some of the appearance of Corran is based on Michael Stackpole, the author who portrayed him in Star Wars Cusomizable Card Game.--PR 719 21:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Name

I'd prefer if 'Kyle' hadn't been 'replaced with 'Katarn' for the reason that there is reference to another Katarn in the article - namely, Morgan Katarn; using 'Kyle' would diminish the chance of onfusing the reader. KEJ 13:12, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)

  • If used in teh same sentence, the father should be refered to as Morgan or "Katarn's father". --SparqMan 17:11, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
    • Could be a solution. Let's see how it works outKEJ 20:46, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Lightsaber education

Who taught Katarn how to use his lightsaber in the first place? Or was he just going mostly on gut?--SparqMan 18:02, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)

  • In Dietz' books, Kyle had already learned fencing at the Imperial Academy and later he was instructed by Qu Rahn's force-spirit. At the Valley of the Jedi, he was instructed by some of the jedi spirits trapped there, too. I guess he was also going on gut in addition to this. KEJ 18:16, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)
    • Yeah, he applied what he knew from his fencing lessons mostly. --Master Starkeiller 18:40, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • In the game, Morgan had set up a training wall in his workshop to practice attacks and had a bunch of remotes to help him train to deflect blasters. hash 12:12, 28 Nov 2005

Non-Video Game Appearances

I think Kyle Katarn has always been my favorite Star Wars character. Dark Forces was the game to open my eyes to the Expanded Universe, so Kyle's almost become the personification of the EU to me.

With that said, all I really know about him comes from the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games, the three novelizations by William C. Dietz, and the content of this Wookieepedia page. So I'm curious: does he play a significant role in any of the novels or comics listed under "Appearances", or does he just make brief cameos? What other Star Wars reading would someone recommend to a Katarn fan?--SM-716 02:20, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

  • I think he's the main character of Equals and Opposites. I haven't read it though, but I'd sure like to KEJ 17:29, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • They're mostly just cameos. Like KEJ said, he's the main character in Equals and Opposites, and during a Masters Council scene in The Unseen Queen he has a fair share of dialogue, but that's about it. Kuralyov 17:42, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Deleted image

This is the image I removed the the page:

thumb|right|250px|

  • It should be put back. There are plenty of live action images there already. QuentinGeorge 11:45, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • Like I've said before, I feel that, when available, live action images should be used as the main image. I don't know why you qwish to remove it from the main image box. Adamwankenobi 11:58, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
      • It's a profile pic, for one, and gives a clearer, better view of Katarn's face than the game still. So please don't remove it again. QuentinGeorge 12:01, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)

thu,mb|left|100px|

  • I tend to agree with Adamwankenobi: a live-action shot, or at least one of the novelization's painted illustrations, would be better for the main image. Let's be honest: graphics rendered by the Quake III engine aren't very pretty. Don't get me wrong, the above-right image should still be on the page somewhere (probably in the sections dealing with Jedi Outcast and Academy), but I would vote for the image to the left as the main pic. SM-716 19:15, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • The pic is nice for main and should be left where it is. --Master Starkeiller 23:20, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)
      • Personally, I don't care which of the pics is the main image, as long as they're both included in the article KEJ 02:07, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup

Why did the clenaup tag get taken down? Am I the only one who notices that there are two separate biographies of him here? Kuralyov 20:25, 25 Dec 2005 (UTC)

  • I read it as the first being a biography and second section focusing on his development over time (personality, psychology). --SparqMan 06:10, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • If it's such a problem, why not just remove it? Doesn't look like it would hinder too much by doing so. --MarcK [talk] 06:15, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • Is that clean-up message really nessecary? What's wrong in have in a biography-section and a personality/character secrion? KEJ 13:14, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Terrible Shape

This article is in terrible shape. I can't believe it is featured. I don't know if it is vandalism or pure stupidity but the Death Star is name "pink star" and the article is full of spelling mistakes. --UVnet 15:13, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

  • It was a couple acts of vandalism. If you spot that again in the future, it is best to contact an experienced user or administrator who can fix it. --SparqMan 16:54, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Missing details

Details on his stormtrooper training from Soldier for the Empire, freeing prisoners on Artus Prime, return to Sulon to collect father's belongings (attacked by Grave Tusken)...what else is missing? --SparqMan 17:07, 31 Dec 2005 (UTC)

One more pic

This article has ebough pics, I guess, but still wouldn't a pic from Mysteries of the Sith be in its place? Maybe it could be placed under "Behind the Scenes" - it was after all this game that introduced his greying temples :-/ KEJ 11:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Portrayal

The intro cutscene of JK shows Kyle in his young days with his father. Is he still Jason Court, or a younger uncredited actor? Brings to mind Luke though :) MoffRebus 23:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

  • I think it's a cleanshaven Jason Court. KEJ 10:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Talents section

  • I believe the Talents section should be written in In-Universe format, yet it has numerous OOU material. Was I wrong or it needs a cleanup? Darth Kevinmhk 16:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree, and I also think it is a bit over-the-top in its gushing praise for him. --Eyrezer 01:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Image source

thumb|What's the source of this image? What's the source of this extremely cool image? KEJ 11:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser

In JK:JA Kyle mentions that he served on a Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser during his imperiel days and I think it requires SOME mention in the artical but where should it be added? DX-2052 18:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Lightsabers Used

This is something I've brought up every time I come across a Jedi Outcast/Kyle Katarn discussion on a postboard, so I'll bring it up here too. So let's see: the first saber Kyle used, the green one, once belonged to Jedi master Qu Rahn. Since the light-side ending of Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight is canonical, the green saber is smashed, and Kyle continues by taking Dark Jedi Yun's yellow saber. In Mysteries of the Sith, Katarn's saber is more of an orangey color, but if you were to tell me that it's supposed to still be Yun's saber, I can buy that.

But then where does Kyle's blue saber come from? He refers to it as HIS lightsaber when he retrieves it from the Jedi Temple in Outcast. I would assume he built it himself at some point, as lightsaber construction is an important step in a Jedi's training. But just WHEN did he do that? As far as I know, he used the yellow/orange saber up until the end of MotS... at which point, he renounced his connection to the Force (right? It's been a few years since I played it).

Is the blue saber just a plot hole to get Katarn to wield a Lucas-approved color, or is there actual reasoning behind it that I missed? What's everyone else's take on it? --SM-716 08:18, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

  • Actually, after Mysteries of the Sith, he briefly attended the Jedi Praxeum before handing his lightsaber over to Skywalker. My guess would be, he made it as part of his training there. jSarek 09:27, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

As of right now, this article states that Kyle gave up Yun's saber and created his own sometime BEFORE MotS. I have no first-hand knowledge of anything outside the Jedi Knight/MotS/Jedi Outcast games, so I have no idea what the source of that claim is. However, if it's true, that would mean Kyle's saber color in the first act of MotS (orangey-yellow, presumably meant to be yellow after Yun's saber) is just a blooper on the part of the developers, and that the true color should be blue, since he should be using his Jedi Outcast-era saber. Also, at the end of the game when Mara faces off with Kyle, he's suddenly got a red saber. Possible explanations: Kyle gave up Yun's saber and constructed his own, using a orange/yellow crystal. Sometime between the construction of this lightsaber and Jedi Outcast, he either built a new saber or changed the crystal color. As for the red saber, Kyle could have either discovered some Sith artifacts in the temple and found a red lightsaber crystal, which he promptly placed into his lightsaber to reflect his embrace of the dark side--or simply have found an old sith saber laying around still in perfect working order (less likely). Assuming he switching out his crystal sometime before Mara found him, it would be more plausible that he might've switched in a blue crystal when he was taking out the red one, instead of using his old orange/yellow crystal. All of this assumes that he was using the same hilt he constructed after he stopped using Yun's saber. Thoughts? Jibegod 17:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I have an issue with the way Kyle's lightsabers are addressed. The article says this: "After his adventure, Kyle gave up Yun's lightsaber and built his own special blue one", but, unless the novels specifically say that Kyle's first saber was a blue one, then this must be inaccurate. Kyle's saber in Mysteries of the Sith is clearly an orange one--not Yun's yellow saber. Therefore, unless other expansion material says otherwise, I think we should edit the article to say that Kyle constructed an orange lightsaber after giving up Yun's, and he constructed a new blue lightsaber sometime after Mara Jade brought him back from the dark side. Of course, everything that Jibegod says above makes perfect sense and could be what happened. But, none of that material is in the article now... right now, the article is not only speculative; it's in contradiction of what we know. BaronGrackle 04:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
  • My suggestion is simple: remove the color issue from main article and address it in BTS. Darth Kevinmhk 14:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Ryan Kaufman mentioned somewhere that the MOTS saber was Yun's, and was programmed as the same color, but somehow the color palette changed in-between games and we got the orangeish tint. I suggest we treat the MOTS saber as Yun's and dismiss the color difference as the game glitch it is. Havac 03:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Okay, verification was what I was hoping for. Thanks. -BaronGrackle 07:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I think that Kyle used Yun's lightsaber in MotS, but, I found an image that might clear things up thumb|left|250px|He is clearly wielding an orange lightsaber .But that doesn't mean that it can't be Yun's saber. Havac is most likely right, I really think it's a glitch. —Unsigned comment by Jedi Trainer (talk • contribs)
          • Coming from someone who extensively modded Jedi Knight, Mysteries of the Sith, and ran a moderate-sized modding community, if you've ever disassembled the game's source files, you would realize that a "glitch" causing the saber color to be orange is a complete impossibility. The saber colors weren't assigned by palette but rather by defined images. For the orange saber color to be a glitch, the programmers would not have been able to read the English language, thus making them ill equipped for programming a game written in English commands. The call for Kyle's saber, in the case of the the playable, NPC, and cinematic character files, Kyle's weapon script has a specific call for saber color. In both of these games, the saber files were textures, so it would look something like this:

Some header garbage saying this is a character file. ### SKIN=KYLE NPC SABER=KYLE COLOR=ORANGE Etc., Etc. The saber color call function would pull up a corresponding texture file such as BLUE.PNG, YELLOW.PNG, and sop on. So, for the issue to be related to a "glitch," the only explanation would be that the programmers meant to write the letters Y E L L O W and forgot how it was spelled, so they wrote down O R A N G E. Since the game runs, we can assume the programmers weren't that completely inept. Also, I can verify that the game engine doesn't incorrectly interpret the color calls, having written my own episodes before. This leaves us with a problem that must be reconciled because the color was orange and they absolutely intended it to be so, no matter that you read anywhere else. The only way to explain this is by filling the gaps where the game gives very little semblance of a back-story. By merging elements from both progressions of the story-line of Dark Forces II, you can imagine a plot which would have ultimately involved the defeat of Jerec at Kyle's hands while Kyle retained, for the time, force neutrality. Being one of the sabers not destroyed in the game's story, and seeing as Kyle had received little Jedi influence, it stands to reason that he might have taken Jerec's saber after the final duel, especially considering his background as a mercenary. He then may have constructed his own hilt using a combination of the two (the hilt in Mysteries of the Sith is distinctly different from Yun's hilt), and he may also have added Jerec's red crystal with his original yellow crystal. It's important to add that Jerec's saber was a single-crystal red saber, as there is also a double-red-crystal version used in the game. While none of this is documented by any source, it is a viable explanation for the orange saber and different hilt. Further, an explanation must be reached because the saber in the game was definitely orange (there is a yellow saber in the game, and it's distinctly yellow and not orange, so it can't be said that the orange saber is supposed to be seen as yellow), and therefore the orange saber must be explained. If you disregard the orange saber blade, you must also disregard the entire existence of Kyle Katarn as his entry in Star Wars canon is every bit as valid as his orange saber blade.

Main image

Can we change the image in the infobox? There are a ton of options, and having a computer rendered one just doesn't look that great to me. How about this one? --Eyrezer 12:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

  • I'd go for an image of Jason Court in stead. I don't think the image from Power of the Jedi's that good. KEJ 12:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree that the current main image puts the "ug" in "ugly". There are plenty of better options, but I'm not too fond of the PotJ one either. I would vote for either a clear, clean image of Jason Court, or one of the painted illustrations from the novellas. -- SM-716 ...talk? 17:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I prefer this one: File:Kyle katarn1.jpg. AdamwankenobiTalk to me! My home. 20:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Yeah, that's my favorite too... either that or one of the illustrations from the novellas. An alternative could be an in situ image from Outcast or Academy which would be better than the profile/avatar that's presently serving as the main image. KEJ 22:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
        • How does it look in the info box? KEJ 23:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
    • But that image looks nothing like the other Katarn images we've seen in comics or games. --SparqMan 23:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
      • I love the CG one. Darth Kevinmhk 02:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
        • I don't really like that image of Jason Court. The coloring is quite dull, I think. I like the POTJ one better, but I think we are agreed that the JO one should go. --Eyrezer 05:27, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
        • I am not fond of the POTJ image. Why nobody thought putting the one that's already main image in Wikipedia? [1] MoffRebus 07:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
          • It's less dull for sure. KEJ 08:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I've made a gallery of suggested main images - please mmake suggestions by adding an image to the gallery. KEJ 15:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC) File:Yetanotherimageofkyle.jpg File:Kyletarantino.png File:Kyle-again.jpg File:Kyle katarn1.jpg File:Kylehamlet.png File:Lookingbackoveryourshoulder.png File:Katarn_portrait.jpg File:Kylekatarn jasoncourt.jpg

    • have we a choice, becasue this article needs a main image by now Jedi Dude 18:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Soldier for the Empire image

While we're on images, the image for the "Soldier for the Empire" section should probably be replaced. The current one depicts Kyle with his first lightsaber--an event that won't happen until at least 4 years (maybe 3?) after he stops being an Imperial. Anyway... if we're voting on the main image, mine goes to the portrait: bottom row, third from the left. -BaronGrackle 07:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Could be placed in the BTS section as a note on continuity errors in illustrations (there are a couple more in those novellas). KEJ 22:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I was actually referring to a different thing (though that is notable too!). Within this article there is a section about Kyle's life labelled "Soldier for the Empire", but the image for it is an image of Kyle with his first saber. It's the rightmost picture on the bottom row of those above. -BaronGrackle 02:13, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Ah okay, I get it. Well, that's actally the cover of the novella called Soldier for the Empire, so that was possibly the rationale behind placing that image there. Personally I think one of the illustrations from the same book depicting Kyle in a stormtrooper armor would be better KEJ 08:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Vote for image

Having killed Maw

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Kyle Ka-Tarantino

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  • Changed my mind. Bryar Pistol rocks. BaronGrackle 10:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • KEJ 23:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Not really my favorite, but the other pics aren't very good either... I just want that ugly profile picture out=P Stake black msg04:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


Kyle from Power of the Jedi

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  1. --Eyrezer 11:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Kyle Classic 1

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  1. AdamwankenobiTalk to me! My home. 23:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


Kyle Classic 2

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To be or not to be...

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Kyle with a view

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Rebel agent

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  • My favorite illustration of Kyle Katarn (but the quality is not great, I could update it if you want) Kaal 01:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


Killer Kyle

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Master Katarn

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This should be interesting

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Portrait 1

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  • Gotta be this one. Roma
  • Hadn't seen this one before. Nice n' moody - Kwenn 18:03, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
  • its a real life shot Jedi Dude 14:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Eh... I'll throw my lot back with the standard profile. -BaronGrackle 16:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


Portrait 2

thumb


VOTE CLOSED

Vote closed (dried up). Image changed. KEJ 10:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Why 14 ABY

  • I wasn't sure exactly when he became the Jedi Battlemaster, so I did research and an estimate. The cult, "Disiples of Ragnos", was founded sometime that year, which was a good while before the Jedi Academy game. The time span between the two(Including Kyle's vacation after Jedi Outcast ends)means that Kyle became the battlemaster within a two year time span(JK JO and JK JA are only two years apart). science the time for each game wasn't listed, I estimated that it was around this date. If you can find the correct date, or one closer than mine, please list it. Xepeyon 18:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
    • well we don't use estimates only facts. Jedi Dude 18:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
      • That is untrue, for some things in the EU aren't classified precisely. Anakin Skywalker's birth-planet was possibly Tatooine, a chance. Because there is no exact information, that is not 100% true, but it is an estimate. Darth Plagueis possibily created Anakin, but there is no canon information, a possibility estimate. Same case is with the date of Kyle's Rank. No official date, but is was within two years - a very short period of time. It's not as if I'm saying it was sometime between 14 ABY and 50 ABY, but if you can't pinpoint the date, don't tell me about it. I know that wookieepedia uses facts, or the closest things to them. In a way, actually, this is a fact, for Kyle achieved this rank within this period of time. However there is a reason there's a question mark there. If you find the date, just place it there, don't tell me about the rules when technically I'm not breaking them. Xepeyon 00:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
    • i wasn't telling you the rules of such, just a reminder, and the estimates are made from canon canon sources usually, you were just estimating using what you think is the right time. Jedi Dude 12:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Why Does Kyle Have Just ONE Shoulder Pad

Does anyone know why the creator of Kyle Katarn made him wear just ONE shoulder pad, it looks rediculous.Kyle is one of the best, he should get the best, not the ONE FEAKING SHOULDER PAD.

  • He only needs one Freakin' Sweet Shoulder Pad of Holding to carry all of his gear. jSarek 07:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Actually, that's a +5 Leather Pauldron. Lonnyd 12:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Then he could have two, then hed have + 10, hehe. And I know he is so cool he only needs one, but he'd look better with two.
    • Well, one seems to work for sandtroopers, too. And Kyle's miniature does have two (smaller) shoulder pads. jSarek 00:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • well it works for the troopers because they are not cool and do not deserve two, kyle does because he rules.

This is pure speculation, but my theory for it is that it has something to do with Kyle's fencing background. While the pad would be pretty useless against a lightsaber strike, Kyle studied fencing at the Imperial Academy using metal blades. Maybe wearing a pad on the shoulder of your sword arm was common practice if the student was serious about improving his skill; a fencer with a shoulder injury would be at a disadvantage, right? Plus, it would make a good spot to rest the blade while standing at ease. So maybe Kyle still wears it for comfort, like he associates the extra weight on his shoulder with getting into a swordfighting frame of mind. Note that the Jedi trainer also has only one pad on his left shoulder... maybe he has a similar fencing history.

While it has become something of an iconic visual for his character, I do agree that it looks a little goofy, though. -- SM-716 talk? 17:29, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

    • Whoever posted the fencing comment is correct in part, the shoulder pad would be used to protect the foil while on guard, however i simply think the reason he has one is asphetics nothing else Jedi Dude 17:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Actually, the reason is probably a more mundane one. Kyle (and Dash Rendar) is a victim of '90s fashion-sense ala. Mad Max and Cable. Writers and artists have a tendancy to copy each other when trying to create 'futuristic' styles. The same problem plagued the Marvel Star Wars comics toward the end of their run, when all the male Zeltron characters looked like they stepped out of an '80s disco, and the Nagai were goth-metal/hair band-inspired. The problem with setting a style trend based on what seems popular at the time, is that it looks really dated as time goes on.Tocneppil 17:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Yeah, the real reason why the character designers gave him the pad is probably just because they thought it looked cool... the fencing explanation was just the best in-universe excuse I could come up with. I find the pad less objectionable that way. -- SM-716 talk? 18:17, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
        • I agree. Now, how do we explain Dash Rendar?Tocneppil 18:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
          • ...he played football in college...? -- SM-716 talk? 18:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
            • . . . or was a sailor on a fishing trawler somewhere:DTocneppil 21:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
              • The answer is like any other answer when it comes to Kyle and Dash: IT LOOKS FRIGGIN' COOL! KEJ 23:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

DO NOT QUESTION KYLE KATARN. Bad things will happen. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 01:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

  • LOL. But why the hell are we dicussing why he has only one shoulder pad. He just does. Bye bye. End of story. See ya later.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 02:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I have a message from Kyle to all of those who question his shoulderpad: "You should run!". KEJ 09:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

How did the valley restore Kyle?

  • Is there any official info on this? The Valley article mentions nothing of what made it so special as to powerlevel Kyle's Force abilities (or the Reborn for that matter) upon contact. Also, what was the powerbeam he entered to accomplish this? The Valley article states it is merely the most powerful Force nexus in the Galaxy, but mentions nothing of how this relates to its abilities.DarthMRN
    • Apparently, its status as a "psychic bloodstain" left it some lingering Force influence - see "valley of the Jedi" here. jSarek 07:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
      • That article was sadly uninformative. Naturally the Valley was a Force Nexus of insane proportions, but that it would continue to empower those who had been in its presence permanently, speaks of an unusual ability that no other Force Nexus had AFAIK.DarthMRN
        • Better uninformative, than inaccurate:
"The two did battle, and when Kyle slew Jerec, he fulfilled an ancient prophecy. The spirits of long-dead Jedi, trapped in the Valley for a thousand years, were finally freed. With this energy unleashed, the Valley of the Jedi's worth as a weapon was effectively eliminated."
―Star Wars Databank, Kyle Katarn's entry

Apparently not effectively eliminated enough to avoid being used to effectively empower Desann's Reborn and Shadowtroopers. But as for how the Valley restored Kyle, remember that all it was really doing was giving him a running start to recovering power he already wielded before; he only slowly recovered his power throughout the progression of missions. The game almost feels like he's leveling-up, though it's not RPG, so the Valley didn't have to do more for Kyle than the Jedi Council did for Revan, or Kreia did for the Exile. -BaronGrackle 14:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I see your point, but I can't really see the comparison between Kyle, Revan and the Exile. Revan's powers never diminshed, they were only forgotten and later rediscovered. The Exile was a wound in the Force, able to suck power from the death of his enemies at a lightning rate.

But this of course brings up the lightning fast ascendance from apprenticeship to master Kyle experienced in JK1, and the same for Revan and the Exiles Jedi companions, who didn't have any of these excuses. Otherwise, I could buy into the theory that the Vally merely shock-started latent powers in Kyle.DarthMRN

Odd paragraph

"Shortly after this, the Academy was attacked by a Nightsister and her band of outlaws who were seeking ancient Sith artifacts they had discovered the Academy owned. Despite the fact that they took advantage of the Academy's weakened state, Kyle and a group of others managed to push them back and kept them from retrieving the artifacts."

  • What event does this paragraph refer to? I don't recognise the event. --Eyrezer 00:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
    • No idea. I've deleted it. If someone can account for this with a canonical sourse, feel free to undelete it and provide the source (and also mention it here). KEJ 10:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I know the source, but I'm not so sure it's canon. The information comes from the Star Wars Miniatures: Attack on Endor scenario book, and it is the background for a game skirmish. Everything from the odd paragraph seems to be accurate with the background information (including the reference to the Nightsister waiting until Desann's attack had weakened the temple's defenses), and the scenario claims that Kyle and the young Jedi Knights succeeded in dealing with the Nightsister, so it could potentially be a real event. This small scenario booklet has other mentionings, such as Owan Sopil (who gets rescued by Lando Calrissian and Dash Rendar), Magar the petty despot, and the backwater planet of Magar's World. -BaronGrackle 13:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
      • I don't know if it's canon. I've never really been sure about the miniature game. Does anybody know? KEJ 16:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
        • It's not unofficial or Infinities. jSarek 15:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Lightsaber info

  • An anon added some info on Kyle's changing lightsaber colors [2]. Can anyone verify this info? jSarek 15:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I saw that. As far as I know, the only parts that aren't speculative are that Kyle had an orange lightsaber during MoTS, between the time when he had Yun's lightsaber and when he accepted training under Luke (since his fall to the dark side is what convinced him that he needed Luke's guidance). I've always presumed that this is the time Kyle built the blue lightsaber, but I have no proof of that. I've also presumed that Kyle's orange saber was different than Yun's yellow one, mainly because Knights of the Old Republic is the only source in the Star Wars universe where we see people casually changing the crystal colors in their lightsabers instead of building entirely new ones (and if we think that's the norm, then we would've expected Anakin/Vader to do a quick blue-to-red swap before his little forray into the Jedi Temple). But again, no proof. -BaronGrackle 04:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
      • That's what I thought. I've cut it for now; if someone finds a source, they can re-add it. jSarek 06:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
        • Isn't there an in-universe explanation for the scarcity/availability of lightsaber gems?Tocneppil 19:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Timeline mistake? Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight/Nagai-Tof participation

I was confused about the ordering of some of these events. On the page for Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, it says that the events took place several years after the battle of endor. It also says on wookieepedia that the nagai-tof war which Kyle helped out in (his mission with Guri/Dash to the Tof world of Saijo) took place a year after the battle of endor. However, in the Kyle article, the Nagai-Tof war participation is listed as after the Valley of the Jedi stuff. Should that be moved to prior? 129.22.50.184 04:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Yes, it should, and now, it is. jSarek 08:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Fanon

Cut it out with the fanon, seriously. "Because of [a bunch of poetic stiphidity], Kyle was on the new NJO Jedi Council. He fought when provoked." or something like that. The New Jedi Order didn't form a council...Vladius Magnum

Picture

  • I have all of the Dark Forces & Jedi Knight games except for Mysteries of the Sith. I have noticed that in all of the games BUT Jedi Knight the graphics are cartoonish or whatever it's called. Why can't they just stick with the real people?

Grand Admiral Nick Vos [Holonet] Republic Emblem

  • It was the 90s. Don't expect advanced 3D graphics. -- I need a name (Complain here) 21:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
  • For Mysteries of the Sith, the budget for an expansion to JK didn't warrant new live action shots. For later games, the Powers That Be ruled that graphics had advanced enough that they didn't need live-action cutscenes. jSarek 01:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
    • And I submit that, were the actor anyone other than Jason Court, we Jedi Knight fans would be disappointed. -BaronGrackle 03:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, how did you know about my attempted beard?

Could someone who has Star Wars: Empire at War and/or Star Wars: Lethal Alliance let us know whether or not Kyle is depicted with a beard? The reason I ask is because I know that both the action figure of Kyle and images of him from Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire (both of which are depictions from the Dark Forces Rebellion Era) seem to have added the Jason Court beard, which should not occur until the New Republic Era. If these two games do beard Kyle up, it might be worth mentioning behind the scenes. The great retbeard. :-) -BaronGrackle 04:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Empire at War does not have the beard I believe... I can check if you'd like. Jorrel Fraajic 05:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Lethal Alliance has the beard. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 05:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
      • EaW has the beard last time I checked.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 06:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
        • <rant>Man. Tired of these novellas and neo-games messing with my K-Canon. :-( </rant> -BaronGrackle 16:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
          • So? He got crazy and shaved it off for Dark Forces, decided he didn't like it, and went back to the beard. No crazy canon contradictions, just a brief flirtation with a face as smooth as a baby's bottom. jSarek 22:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
            • But these appearances show him specifically at the time of the Danuta mission (in Soldier for the Empire and Lethal Alliance) and the Dark Trooper project (in Empire at War). Just look at the image for the action figure I added; blatantly the exact same picture for the exact same time, only with some hairs added to the chin and cheeks. -BaronGrackle 04:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
              • EaW has the beard, just checked. Jorrel Fraajic 02:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Kyle Katarn can control the length of his beard with his mind. -- Darth Culator (Talk)(Kills) 02:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Works for me.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 03:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Mystery solved. Man, there's nothing this rugged Jedi can't do! -BaronGrackle 03:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
      • And that's what makes him Kyle. Jorrel Fraajic 03:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Because ordinary mortal people can't shave their beard of and then let it grow again by not shaving for some time, right? KEJ 20:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

You're all wrong. He went back in time 'cos he ALWAYS had a beard.FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!! 21:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

New sectioning

  • The new sectioning works pretty well. Good job. KEJ 20:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Sourcing

Doesn't this need to be sourced? Or is that in the template stating the reasons for FA removal and I just missed it? Chack Jadson 01:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Yep; first thing in bold is "no citations." jSarek 08:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Locked? And images.

Is vandalism so bad here that the page needed to be locked, or is it an Inquisitor issue? I was just wanting to remove the "retbeard" image I had inserted a while back, as I agree that this article has way too many images, and it can do without that one. -BaronGrackle 22:35, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Greatest Jedi/Sith/DarkJedi-killer of all times

I think Kyle has the highest count of recordable(!) kills of force-users. If this is true then I think it's worth to be mentioned. Rivaling characters could be Jaden Korr, Darth Vader (including info from EP3-game), and this guy from KOTOR (I've not played yet)). Now there is just one question: Who wants to play Jedi Outcast (and the other games) and count the killed force-users?--TeakHoken91.7.42.101 22:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, a lot if his kills may be reduced to mere game mechanics (apart from the seven dark Jedi (minus Yun), Desann, and the first Reborn). KEJ 21:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

But Desann definitely had an army of Reborn. And this army has been destroyed. And who killed the Reborn if not Kyle and Jaden? And why should we then put something into question that we have seen with our own eyes?--TeakHoken91.7.18.33 16:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Sure thing, but not all things that appear in computer games are canonical per se, and a lot of it is considered to be pure game mechanics rather than canonical elements. This is not my opinion, but just the way it is. As regards the Jedi Knight games, I don't know if there are any canonical Dark Jedi body counts. Well, I assume that those who have lines and those who appear in cutscenes are canonical. KEJ 20:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    • But as far as I know, game mechanics only includes things like, e.g. a "force meter", assignment of force powers to either the light or the dark side,... or dumb things like: Kyle can carry a dozen weapons without having a visible backpack. I see no point for the number of enemies being a game mechanic.--TeakHoken91.7.20.226 15:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

If were going to count kills I think it should only count if the kill person had a name. Force users during Jedi/Sith War (during Darth Bane's era) would have racked up a lot of kills too. ~Anonymous Star Wars Fan

  • Where are you living? It's 21st century! Everyone is equal. Not knowing ones name doesn't mean you can kill him like a bug. If we count, then we count. The goal is to know who is the one that killed most force-users. If it is Bane, then he is. If it is Kyle, then he is. If it is someone else, then it is someone else. What is the reason for counting only people with names? What a ridiculous idea. The only thing that would make sense is to list all namely-known corpses and then adding the number of unnamed. That's in fact a good idea to avoid double-counts.--TeakHoken91.7.45.6 18:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

DO NOT QUESTION KYLE KATARN. Bad things will happen.FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!! 21:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

PRAISE KATARN!FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!!! 21:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I want to prove that he is the greatest, and you are flaming me for that? (@all the others: Don't tell me not to speak to trolls! I like it.)--TeakHoken91.7.42.197 17:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry if I seemed to be flaming you, and I am sorry if I was trolling. However, Katarn is on the High council (as far as I know), and considering the how many people he has killed, adn with almost no tutoring, killed six Dark Jedi, one Dark Jedi Master (Jerec), and many, many other bad guys (and sneaked on to the Excutor, and killed lots of Kell dragons and...ETC) we can safely say, without a doubt, Kyle Katarn is one of the greatest Jedi ever. Truce? allurbaserbelongtoKatarn 15:52, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, truce. Hey - I'm still searching for someone to count the kills in the Jedi Knight games.--TeakHoken91.7.35.5 21:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

It is more than 35 Force-users, and over 150(!) other enemys.It is almost imposible to get it completely.(If anyone can it more accurately, I would appericate it).

Dark Jedi Killer

I did count the kills of Kyle in Jedi Outcast. Except for some situations where you´re helped by lando, luke and allied forces you can kill 1300 enemies. Of that we have 44 dark jedi including Desann. The rest of the number is made up of stormtroopers, mercenaries and so... 200.141.52.70 20:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Add 6 Dark Jedi from Jedi Knight. Makes 50. There is 1 Reborn in the canonical(!) Jedi Outcast Demo. Kyle kills no Force-users in the comics. So Kyles count is [-flourish-] 51!

Jedi Academy: I think all enemies from Jedi Academy that can be killed by Kyle should nevertheless count for Jaden, because you (the player/Jaden) can and should be faster. Now Jaden Korr's count? I can do that, but I am not very fast. And then Darth Vader. I cannot because I don't and will never own a X-Box, thus can not play Episode III.--TeakHoken91.7.27.229 18:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Powers.

No matter what powers you choose in Jedi Outcast, Kyle always has level 3 in all light powers, 3 in grip, and 2 in Lightning. Should this be in BTS. —Unsigned comment by 74.245.90.197 (talk • contribs)

Fury?

Just curious, it says Kyle is in Fury. By out of action, does that mean 'dead' or just incapacitated? It should be clarified, IMO.

  • He survives, according to the article. On another topic, wow, Kyle is still owning. Chack Jadson(Talk) 21:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Over nine thousaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!

I was just adding a stupid joke. It was not meant as a serious vandalism thingy. Katarn's too awesome to vandalize. But seriously, don't you think his power level is probably over nine thousaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!?

Reorganization and rewrite

Preliminary stage.

Appearances (tree)

Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire (Novella/Audio)\
Star Wars: Lethal Alliance                          \
Star Wars: Dark Forces                               >--------\
Dark Forces Official Player's Guide                /          \
Star Wars: Empire at War                           /            \
                                                                 \
Dark Forces Manual: Coded Transmissions               \           \
Dark Forces: Rebel Agent (Novella/Audio)               \           \
Star Wars: The Interactive Video Board Game             \           \
Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II                   >----------->The Dark Forces Saga/Kyle Katarn's Tale
Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II: The Official Strategy Guide/           /
Dark Forces: Jedi Knight (Novella/Audio)               /           /
                                                                  /
Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith                          \    /
N.R.I. Reports (Mentioned only)                              \  /
Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast                       >/
Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast: Official Perfect Guide         /
Star Wars Miniatures: Attack on Endor                       /
Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy                       /
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy: Prima's Official Strategy Guide/

Appearances (tree-free)

Things get less confusing here.

Sources

Mercenary?

  • It states that Kyle was a merc, but I'd like to rebut that with the following 2 excerpts from the novel Soldier for the Empire.

[Mon Mothma]"Jan tells me that you want to serve as one of our agents. Why?" Kyle, who hadn't expected any sort of challenge, was taken aback. That being the case, his words were more direct, more honest than they might otherwise have been. "I want to find the people who murdered my father and kill them."

and

[Mon Mothma]"So what's your decision? Will you take the mission?" It was crazy, stupid, and possibly fatal, but Kyle nodded. Not for the Rebel cause, or in reaction to Mothma's blandishments, but for his father and those who died with him.

Now Dictionary.com states a mercenary as 'working or acting merely for money or other reward; venal.' and this is clearly not the case. Fank 12:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

  • That's one meaning of the word. It can also mean a combatant who isn't a national of, or a party to, the conflict who is paid extra compared to combatants of similar ranks and duties in the regular armed forces. Essentially, Kyle never joined the Rebellion, but was paid to carry out missions for it, making him a mercenary. jSarek 02:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Katarn Last Name

I wonder if one of Kyle Katarn's ancestors created the Katarn class armor and other Katarn class things. General Mannino 21:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Working on it

(X-posted from the Inq page, since I'm not sure if I should have put this over there...)

I'm trying to fix this article up in hopes it can be restored to FA status. I am new here, so I still need a bit of direction for how articles are supposed to look. I am willing to put in the work if someone could help give me a bit of direction.

I just finished working on the New Republic section. Previously fixed up the Personailty section (might still need some work). Added the Equipment section and reworked the Powers section. It has been some time since anyone commented on what needs to be done to this article, so I am not sure how much of the above list needs to be fixed. Still need image, BTS, and merch culling? More intro info needed? --Queenofthe1ring 13:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

-- I am new to, but i think than you could talk with AdmirableAckbar. Maybe he know what need to be done exactly. Revan, Prodigal Knight 18:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

    • This still needs a lot of work, I fear. First and foremost, the biography must be expanded. A FA must have a detailed biography, which this article lacks. For example, in the "The Valley of the Jedi" section, instead of just "After arriving on Ruusan", it should say that Katarn and Ors contacted Alfonso Obota, hired him to pose as an Imperial captain, then met with Griff Grawley and the Rebels, then with the Bouncers, etc. The introduction is very brief too. Then there are many unsourced paragraphs. And each section should preferably have a quote (and it must not be in the middle of the text). The equipment section that you have added, should also have images and some kind of short description of that particular tool, like characteristics of Moldy Crow or something like that. Also, inquisitors think that the information on merchandise must be removed. Personally, I have nothing against it as long as it is not too detailed, but then again, I'm not the one who decides. In either way, these three pictures in the "Merchandise" section are placed very bad. That's what I think. QuiGonJinnThere's always a bigger fish. 13:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
      Step by step. I removed the "Merchandise" section but kept the totally wicked cool action figure image; I think that's a fair compromise. Merged the "Appearance" section with "Portrayal". Still love the beardcon. Counter-edits are welcome. -BaronGrackle 21:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Potentium?

Wouldn't Kyle be an (unofficial) follower of Potentium? He says, "Remember, abilities are not inherently good or evil, it's how you use them," which is the definition of Potentium... MetVet

  • Since it's not backed up by any official source, affirming that would be original research, which is not allowed on Wookieepedia. Stake black msg 03:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I thought exactly that when I heard that quote. He is definitely a follower of Potentium, but I guess we can't put it here unless we did some research.--MC707 03:09, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Merchandise

What happened to the beautiful Merchandise section? I was going to add a picture of Kyle's new miniature and now its gone. RustM 17:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Well, apparently that was something that was keeping the article from reaching featured status. You won't find Merchandise sections, for example, on Thrawn's or Mara Jade's pages. HK-47 was I think the only other page to have one; I'm not sure whether it does now. Could you imagine how huge Luke Skywalker's page would be if we kept track of every Star Wars mini and action figure he has? Even the toy image I left remaining was a stretch; do you really think a picture of the most recent mini would be preferable to the action figure? -BaronGrackle 16:52, 17 June 2009 (UTC)