Talk: Force lightning/Archive1

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This page is an archive of the discussion of an article. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's current talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.

Palpatine

In the Revenge of the Sith Audio Commentry George Lucas says it was the effects of the lightning that caused Palpatine's appearance to be deformed. This likely happened since the lightning completed a full circle; went back in the same person who was throwing it out.

  • Lucas never said such a thing in the Commentary. The closest thing to what you claim is John Knoll's comment "after Palpatine's face was deformed by Force lightning.." or something like that, which proves nothing. --Master Starkeiller 00:21, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • It's in the commentary for the movie. The fact that it was allowed, and not edited out, means George must not have an issue with it.

I'll look into that.

I think the yellow eyes is a result of a Sith's anger: Look at Anakin after Obi-Wan cuts him down in Revenge of the Sith: Anakin is clearly in a rage and has eyes like the lightning casting Palpatine.
    • The only indisputable G-canonial evidence existing that usage of the Dark Side changes the appearance of the user is Anakin's eyes from Ep. 3. And while lightning being responsible has been fan conjecture for years, there is no proof that lightning is in fact responsible, at least no more than any other usage of the dark side.

Force Lightning Users

Do we really need that last bullet in the Users section? Most of those listed there are just Darth Travesties anyway. No body really likes Darth Talon, or can even recall who he is off the top of their head. --- 05:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)MaxW

After typing that I looked at Darth Talon's article and found out that he is actually a she. I told you nobody really cared. --- 05:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)MaxW

GIFs

Why was the GIF removed? The X-wing, A-wing, and all those other articles have GIFs, and no one removes them, so why remove the GIF from force lightning? The one in Force Lightning is far better then those other ones. If you remove the GIF from this article, then you should remove them from 'all' articles, not just one article (that's plain unfair to remove a GIF from one article, and leave them in others) Besides, an Admin (Kuralyov) made a minor edit on this article, and didn't remove the GIF, so he apparently didn't have a problem with it.

  • Those are actually supposed to be removed. Thank you for informing me. -- SFH 19:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Limbs and Lightning

Can somebody point out to me a single canonical source that states Force Lightning actually requires fingertips to shoot from. I believe this "fact" is fan conjeture, conjured on the basis that Vader never used the power, which there could be other reasonable explanations for. Other Force powers can be cast without the use of gestures and hand movements, so why not Lightning? And what about species without hands? If an organic limb is required at all to fire Lightning from, then why not the leg or a tail?DarthMRN

  • I am 100% sure that "organic limbs required to cast lightning" was stated in reference materials around EP3's release. Most likely EP3 Visul Dict. Darth Kevinmhk 15:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
    • In fact, Vader's legs and arms were artificial, and he would never be able to summon lightning From Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. Darth Kevinmhk 15:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
      • If I am to take that quote literally, it implies that you actually could use your leg to fire lightning from, lol. Now there's some unexplored FanFilm potential.
        • There was a sentence following, stating Vader's legs could no longer perform graceful Force jump, not implying legs & lightning. Darth Kevinmhk 13:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
          • Maybe not gracefully, but he could still do it right? I mean, he did so in at least two games I have played, and he was able to land safely when Luke pushed him off the carbon-freeze platform in ESB.
            • Yes, he could still Force jump, which is beyond the topic of this page. Darth Kevinmhk 14:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
              • Something just occurred to me. In that game, Jedi Starfighter, it is possible to cast lightning from the ship you are flying. Wheter or not lightning should be usable in space is another discussion, but unless Adi Gallia had an open cockpit out in space to shoot from her hand, that is clearly a case of C-canon lightning being shot from dead matter.DarthMRN
          • rememeber hands signlas were not nesscercery, i mean the gesture of a hand, it just helped the Jedi concentrate, in anycase it is canon for a Jedi in space to use Lightning, Jaina Solo once did i believe or she wanted to?. Jedi Dude 16:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
            • Hands were used to concentrate in telekinetics, but lightning indeed needs a limb to cast/direct/project the bolts, OS Q&A has explained as much. I dont remember Jaina used lightning in space, though. Darth Kevinmhk 03:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
  • So, how does that affect continuity then? Until this has been retconned, it violates the fact that you actually need limbs to cast lightning. Shouldn't the article be temporarily altered to reflect this?DarthMRN
  • what? no it doesn't, you do actually need limbs thats the point. this discussion is happening with vader to, its mad. you need a organic limbs to use it, likem Lumiya says for the strongest powers. Jains used lightning in dark journey in space i think, i'll look into it. Jedi Dude 09:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Why not? We have Jedi Starfighter (C-canon) shooting lightning from the hull of a starship, and then we have that book, The rise of Darth Vader (C-canon) stating Vader could never cast lightning because he had no organic limbs to cast them from, only prostetics. These are clearly contradictory, so how can we just ignore them? We editors of Wookieepedia have no right to make arbitrary desicions on which C-canon material holds precedence over which. So why should this not be edited, at least until LF or whoever gets their finger out and decides to make games S-canon so we can avoid this crap. DarthMRN
    • Ah, but, from what I gather, the Jedi in Jedi Starfighter shooting lightning from the hull of his/her ship DOES have organic limbs. The question it answers is whether lightning can travel from limbs THROUGH non-organic material to hit something else; an entirely different question than whether the lightning can ORIGINATE from non-organic material. -BaronGrackle 10:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Wheter you are correct or not must be up to poeple who have actually played the game to say, for the few screenshots I have tracked down are too unclear to show if the bolts originate from the vessel itself or from within it. Either way, it sounds like something that should be altered or added to the article.DarthMRN
        • i have the game, it comes from the Jedi, Adi Galia not the ship , just like the otherpowers she uses in the game. She has her limbs as im sure you know. Jedi Dude 18:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
        • Of course she is the source, but can you clearly see it shoot from through the hull or does it shoot from the fighter bow with a flash of light or something? She obviously isn't having an open cockpit in space to shoot from. Besides, since the cockpit is located at the rear of the fighter, it should be easy to discern where the lightning originates.DarthMRN
          • Additional reference on the matter, from OS Q&A: Players of Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter will note that Force lightning is an ability available in the game, but that's a game-play convention. While the core story of Jedi Starfighter does fit into overall Star Wars continuity, the actual mechanics take a number of liberties for the sake of making the game more exciting. Darth Kevinmhk 14:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Darth Vader didn't use Force lightining because if he did it would ruin his life support systems, hence that is why he died. Derek Yoda's friend 01:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • A trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/32575.html) for the game The Force Unleashed shows us Darth Vader using force lightning in combat. 86.110.172.50 18:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
  • We should removed remove the vader can't use lightning thing.

Can't Vader just conjure lightning from a few inches in FRONT of his fingertips so he won't get electrocuted? -dvader518

Vader's force Ball Lightning.

I think there should be a section added about Vader's ball lightning in Splinter of the Mind's Eye.{{SUBST:User:Boba Fett:Motorcycle Cop/sig}} 03:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Official Site Q&A section has stated that it is NOT Force lightning. Darth Kevinmhk 04:19, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
    • then why can vader use force lightning in game like Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith the video game and Star Wars Galaxies.
      • Those instances are not considered canon.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 02:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Why arent those instances not considered canon? 69.23.65.113 21:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
          • Higher canon says he could not use Force lightning. Games often contradict established canon.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 21:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
            • If that wasnt force lightning in splinter of the minds eye then what was it? Some random force power that vader learned that looks like lighning or was it something else, but what? 69.23.65.113 21:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
              • Force destruction maybe? It's the only Force power that I know that's even close. JoJoTrue 21:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
                • To what its description says maybe, but it doesn't look like force destruction very much, it seems to look more like a bolt of lightning to me. 69.23.65.113 21:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
                  • Perhaps he was summoning an extremely small, weak Force Storm (Wormhole), those things look to me like their practically charged with Force Lightning. Darth Vatrir
                    • Now that I think of it, It does seem to slightly look like it.... 69.23.65.113 02:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
                      • Kinetite. Enough said. 128.227.105.242 22:19, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
                      • Not enough said. The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader explains that the kaiburr crystal amplified Vader's force abilities so that he could use lightning.
                        • I STILL find that a really bogus explanation- for starters, even if the Crystal WERE to increase his power, it wouldn't change the fact that he'd fry himself were he to invoke Force Lightning. In other words, this retcon is more confusing than helpful- and where does that leave the Kinetite article? 76.232.154.175 03:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Pictures for "skeletton effects"

Hi everybody, need your help here. I was thinking that a screenshot showing Mace's skeletton would be good to illustrate a very powerfull Force-lightning such as Palpatine's, but I can't make up my mind on which one would be the best. So I took three of the best ones and I submit them to you. Note that the same can be done with Darth Vader in RotJ. File:Windu-lightning-effects-1.jpg File:Windu-lightning-effects-2.jpg File:Windu-lightning-effects-3.jpg

  • If you ask me the first one looks best, It has the best view of the skull. Maybe put it under the Effect of Force lightning section. Darth Xarcon 2:22, 6 August 2006
    • the second one, becasue not only does this show a good view of the skeletton effect, but it shows the actual lightning to. Jedi Dude 19:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
      • i've added the pic, thank you Jedi Dude 19:32, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Looks good, thanks for putting it in. Darth Xarcon 3:00, 6 August 2006

Additonal Effects

In The Truce at Bakura, it's revealed that Luke has suffered partial bone calcification from the his exposure, and requires medical attention. Anyone else feel that's worth mentioning in the article? -JC

Yes, it is...very interesting. Thefourdotelipsis 10:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Mara Jade

  • When does she use Force lightning? Atarumaster88 20px (Audience Chamber) 16:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Possibly Mysteries of the Sith, but then the question is whether she's actually seen using it in a cutscene, or if it's just something that the player has the option of using; in which case you couldn't say that she was *known*to have used it. Also, same question about Kyle Katarn. 68.44.13.236 03:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
      • The Joiner King, pg. 412. Firebird 09:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Inherently corrupting

Force lightning was not strictly available only to those who have fallen to the dark side. Jedi and other light-siders who were strong of will and character could learn this power without falling to the dark side–but its use was always inherently corrupting, and shunned by most Jedi.

Quote from the article. What sort of inherent corruption are we talking about here? And what are the sources? This very article says that there is no clear connection between the physical corruption and lightning, and we know light-siders weren't directly affected by its use, other than perhaps letting its destructive power get to their heads. So what is this corruption all about? DarthMRN 22:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

POV

The line about Luke surviving the sith lightning being nothing short of a force mericle, isn't that POV? -Obi-Two-Knobi

I guess.--Windu223 18:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Lightning variants in Empire's End

In Empire's End, Palpatine uses two interesting variants of Force lightning. During the final confrontation on Onderon, Palpatine blows a hole in Empatojayos Brand with a single concentrated blast of energy. Palpatine then proceeds to kill Rayf Ysanna instantly by casting several linear, thin beams of lightning at him that seem to tear straight through the boy's body. --Exor 01:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

How May Hands

Do to this page having a "source needed" link after it mentions that lighitng can be done out of 1 or both hand, i'll provide a source. A cut scene in KOTOR2 had Nihilus attacking Sion with force lighitng comeing out of just one hand, granted, sicne this is cut content it's non-canon, here's the link to the scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg Destroyer Droid 17:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Not only is that scene non-canon, it's fanon. It was a video created by a fan and the he didn't know what effects to use so he used a jumbled up assortment of them. Not a suitable source. And besides, KOTOR itself is a source since all lightning used by the player comes out of one hand. --Redemption20pxTalk 17:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Er... I didn't know the scene was fanon, sorry. Destroyer Droid 17:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the fact most video games have the lightning come out of one hand is because the player's character is holding a weapon with the other. I can give a concrete source though, in Episode II Dooku/Tyranus attacks Anakin with lightning comeing out of just 1 hand. Destroyer Droid 19:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

To block without touching

Is it possible that someone like vader who can't block force lighning could create a barrier tin front of him that absorbs force lighning? or, couldn't that 'wormhole' power be used to suck the bolts away?--216.210.97.64 06:06, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge of Force Elemental Powers?

After we merge Force Storm here as per consensus (Forum:CT:Merge Force Power variants?), will we merge the other elemental powers? Such as Electric Judgment or Force Destruction? They have to be related. Is there an in-universe name that encompasses every elemental attack a Jedi/Sith would use, something less exclusive than "lightning"? -BaronGrackle 01:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Electric Judgment, maybe - Destruction, no. They're more than different enough to justify their own articles, and there's really nothing linking them together in the first place. Besides, if we were going to go as far as Directly Lethal Dark Side Powers we might as well merge everything into Dark side of the Force and call it a day. I don't think anybody would want that. Din's Fire 997 06:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm the one who merged Shock, Storm, and Chain lighting here (becuase they are all lightning variants). I didn't merge Electric Judgement here with the other lightning variants becuase I wasn't sure if it was strictly a variant of the traditional "Sith" lightning, since it was created as a light side ability by a Jedi master. So I just left it out. 96.233.191.151 14:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Darth Maul

I can'r remember which Star Wars Insider said it, but the particular issue in question said that Maul could use Force lightning. Also, Gentle Giant has released a statue of Maul with forks of lightning coming out of his right hand, and with his saberfstaff in his left.--Jedi Kasra 23:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

  • I don't think we've seen it before but it could be true. Who knows. JediNTT307 21:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

"Light Side" Lightning use in movies

How has Lucas actually "canonically" explained the fact that Yoda uses force Lightning several times in Episodes 2 and 3, and shows absolutely no evidence of being corrupted, and moreover, is not reprimanded by any other Jedi, and does not "repent"?

In fact, at least in direct "movie" sources, we see no evidence whatsoever that there is any "ontological" reason why Force Lightning in and of itself should "corrupt" someone any more than using the force to deflect a blaster bolt back and kill someone...

BOTH are using the force (whether electrokinesis or precognition combined with telekinesis,) to facilitate an otherwise impossible attack which kills someone...

In Episode 2, Yoda absorbs Dooku's force lightning...pauses long enough to say, "Much to learn you still have." Then fires back force lightning of his own. Which Dooku then absorbs. Neither of these absorbs can be assumed to be like Corran Horn's absorb, because they clearly had a significant pause between "absorbing" and "counter attacking," and Dooku didn't even counter attack any more at that point. They started melee fighting...

There is absolutely no good reason in the movie to assume this is anything OTHER than Yoda literally and deliberately using the same "Force Lightning" ability as Dooku.

Ditto for the Episode 3 duel with Palpatine, in which Yoda verifiably nails him with a direct telekinetic attack, and sends him flying across the room. Anyone other than a "force users" would have died instantly from the mere impact on far side of the room.

At least from appearances and dialogue in the movie, Yoda cannot be said to be "absorbing and redirecting," because he was knocked to the ground smoking. Then he telekinetically counter attacked palpatine directly with a potentially lethat attack.Craftmatic 04:15, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Starkiller lightning saber

Starkiller could use his lightsaber like a rod, electricuting anything the saber touched. Should this be mentioned in the article? Is it a cannon power?

On another note, Lightning Shield being defensive and all, shouldn't the first sentence of the page be altered? Of course it has it's offensive use, but the primary function is to protect (The Emperor does it too, making him nigh-invulnerable in the final battle)

Colors?

In Force Unleasehed, Palpatine uses this purple-ish lightning, but Galen uses the average blue. Also, someone in the article is said to be able to use Red lightning, what I'm getting to is, what do the colors mean exactly?Papayaking 20:02, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

  • Pity this post was ignored for so long. I am wondering that also. For a bit, it seemed that the colors meant nothing in particular; just the style that certain users produced. But lately, I've come to suspect that different colors actually does mean something. Just look at how Marek uses blue during the initial campaign of Force Unleashed. And Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord, was known for using purple. Then, in the alternate storyline of Force Unleashed, after becoming Sidious' apprentice, Starkiller is shown utilizing purple lightning, possibly indicating that Sidious taught him a more powerful level. And Luke, imidiately after falling to the dark side, shoots red lightning. I think the red, in Luke's case at least, came from utter rage, blue being the common/standard form, and purple being the more powerful and advanced. It is too much of a coincidence to me for the highest Dark Lord to always use purple, and then for Starkiller to change to purple after becoming the apprentice. Now, if someone would care to clarify whether we can put something like what I've said about the different colors in the article, and if not how we can properly word it? I truly think a section about the colors should be added. --Mateo22 20pxContact 19:14, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
  • What about the Hidden One from the Baran-Do, in Outcast? He shoots white lightning at Luke. Lele Mj 20px (Holoprojetor) 14:10, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
All good points, and indeed the article states the Jaina used a black variant. Of course I don't read NJO, but I would assume in terms of intensity it would seem to go blue, red, black, purple? 210.98.144.21 10:56, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
Speculation. An interesting observation, and everyone's free to have their own theories, but unless you have solid proof, such things don't belong on Wookieepedia articles. SoresuMakashi(Everything I tell you is the truth) 11:08, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
  • Good Question, In "Season 3" of "Star Wars The Clone Wars" In Alter Of Mortis, The Son uses red-red/pinky-yish Force Lightning, And He's the Most-powerful Dark Side user that we know about, So maybe it's the most-powerful lightning possible, Look, It took him 1 force-push and 2-seconds of lightning to knock out the farther. Skyguy007 11:03, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
  • I think since the Son is the most powerful known dark side user, and he uses red force lightning, red force lightning is the strongest(and rarest, which supports my belief). As for luke not being experienced enough to use red force lightning, my theory is that luke has an insanely high midichlorian count, and if Anakin used force lightning before the incident on Mustafar, it would probably be red. Or Luke only used red in the Ultimate Sith Edition because its a video game. Darth Bane uses purple, and so does Darth Sideous(Darth Plagueis probably uses purple also). So purple is the second most powerful. Blue is the most common so I think it's the least powerful. I would assume in terms of intensity it would seem to go blue, purple, red. Emperordmb 12:26, April 17, 2011 (UTC))
  • Have to agree with many here. Color seems to denote power. Yoda easily absorbed and deflected Dooku's blue lightning. But Palpatine's purple lighting proved to be a challenge for him. This is speculative, as color could just be based on the user's emotions and/or preference. But Starkiller's lightning was blue at first. But by FU2, when he's about as powerful as he could get, it's more purple. "Good" lightning has been often depicted as orange/yellow. I think that was called Force Judgement, or something similar. Then, when Luke was fighting the Yuuzhan Vong, he used good-side "emerald" lighting, which seemed to imply it was the most powerful lightning possible. Something only someone with his/Leia's/Anakin's power level could even produce.

Let's not forget Darth Desolous used red lighning. Darth Ultimatum 16:31, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Additional Effects

I noticed that this article is missing some important pieces of information.

One of these is that it siphons/sucks the life force out of its victim until he/she/it is dead. This life-sucking function is a hallmark of the Dark Side itself, ranging from the effects of techniques like the Thought Bomb to the degradation and corruption to the Dark Side practitioner themselves. This life force removal function can be found in at least two editions of the Star Wars Encyclopedia and even as recently as the "Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force", as seen on page 85.

Another thing is that force lightning can and does physically scar its user under the right conditions.

As seen in the Force Unleashed novelization:

"The Jedi was caught in the flickering storm. His face twisted into a pained grimace. Then he brought his right arm down and placed the blade of his lightsaber directly in the lightning's path. The energy was absorbed by the blade, and then bent back upon itself in a superconducting loop, striking its source with more energy than it had originally possessed. The Apprentice stiffened as pain coursed up his hands and arms. The agony was unbearable- but bear it he did. His skin melted and warped all over his body, and he gagged on the stink of his own burning flesh. The pain and revulsion only fed the dark side, so the faster the lightning came back to him, the harder and stronger it flowed from him."

-"The Force Unleashed" novelization, pgs.178-179 of the paperback, pg. 162 of the hardcover.

In more practical terms, the lightning was absorbed by the lightsaber blade and then sent back to user, striking him with its energy combined with that taken from the Lightsaber. This focused and violent strike introduced such heat and energy to his body that it melted and warped his skin and the underlying flesh, causing incredible pain. But that pain and the revulsion caused by this fed the power even more, which means that there ends up being a continuous superconducting feedback loop of escalating intensity, where the user is subjected to the damage from the lightning and the increasing power and intensity of the emitted lightning caused that damage, which combined creates a terrible strain and exertion upon him.

Naturally, this would end sooner or later, and combined with the life force removal effect, the user would likely have undergone a terrible transformation. Their skin and flesh would have bulged, warped, and be lined with scars, while the flesh would likely be pallid in tone and texture, while the incredible exertion would likely have turned their eyes permanently fiery, if they weren't already. Depending on the user, this could even make them a well of Dark Side energies if they are powerful enough.

Now, when has a situation like this occurred? Think of the battle between Darth Sidious and Mace Windu in Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith. The reflected force lightning there was a continuous loop that went into and out of Sidious much like the Apprentice in the above-mentioned passage. In fact, it was nearly identical.

The exchange took up to 38 seconds in the film, and according to the commentary from John Knoll, one of the people who animated the sequence, stated that Sidious's transformation was caused by the strain of the exertion that he was undergoing, which though somewhat ambiguous in nature, can be understood if one takes into account the above information. This combination of reflected lightning combined with energy from a lightsaber, the scarring and melting of flesh that follows, the escalating feedback loop that accompanies it combined with the emotional state and power of the wielder, and the life-sucking, corrupting energies of the Dark Side could and quite likely would lead to the type of transformation that afflicted Sidious. --Exalted Obliteration 01:39, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup

We should really try and clean this article up. It would be great to have it as a featured article! --Brymetsprite 03:27, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Black?

"Other Jedi practitioners of this power have been Kyp Durron, Jaina Solo (in a black variant respectively), Jacen Solo, Mara Jade Skywalker and Luke Skywalker."

Who uses black lightning again? 98.200.252.109 14:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

possible variation

Could there possibly be a variation where instead of normal sith lightning there is actual lightning coming from your hands? -- I am Darth Malignus, Jen'ari! Come to my talk plz!!!

Light Side applications in KOTOR I and II

There were force lightning techniques of the light side in KOTOR I and II - meant only for use against droids. They were called "stun droid", "destroy droid" and a third skill. These were obvious, "ethical", variations of force lightning.

Lightning Grenade

There is a power Palpatine used in the final battle against Galen Marek, lightning grenade. Not sure how to word it right or whether it should be on the force lightning page, so I'll leave it to the experts to decide and such. Near-sighted Jedi 09:15, September 14, 2010 (UTC)