Talk: Cin Drallig/Legends

Article milestones Date Process Result July 15, 2007 Good article nomination Failure July 28, 2007 Good article by Darth Whatever
Current status: Failed Good article nominee

Hes in Ep III. Played by none other than Nick Gillard. Stunt Coordinator, and Lightsaber Master. --Kosure 16:28, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

• Yup. Cin Drallig backwards would be Gillard Nic. (eg: Nick Gillard). In the RotS novel and video game (seen, but not mentioned in the movie, I think), they refer to him as the Lightsaber Master as he is one of the main Jedi responsible for lightsaber training. As far as I know. --Beeurd 19:10, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Any pictures of him?SGCommand

• you can't wait two days. ;) I don't think there are any fair-use pictures yet--Eion 13:35, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

• You might be able to find an image of him in a screencap from the ROTS video game. --SparqMan 14:55, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Drallig's apprentice, Serra Keto, isn't in the film; she was created specifically for the game. The female Jedi the author is confusing Serra with is Bene, played by Mousey McCallum.

Appearance

Based on this page - http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/about/news/news20050607.html - would you really call Drallig's hair brown? It looks a bit blondish to me. QuentinGeorge 23:10, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We might as well only say 'Look at him, kid! :D' - TopAce 78678678u76yutyuyt

Unseen Queen

Was that Cin Drallig's last stand that R2-D2 showed Luke, Han and C-3PO on Woteba? -- SFH 14:46, 17 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Height

Bene's height is 1,70m right? And if you look at the picture you can clearly see that Cin and Bene both have the same height... Well, allmost, maybe he's a little bit taller; but only a little. So we could state that Cin's height is also around the 1,70m... right?----Inmobilus 17:25, 13 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Other quote

How about this one?

Italic text"Abandon his students, Cin Drallig would not"Italic text Yoda to Obi-wan Kenobi

Cin Drallig

Isn't Cin Drallig the one that is shown in the security records in the Jedi Temple that Anakin cut down and SuperShadow lied was Nebar Foxis?

• • yes we see him killed in epidosde III, supershadow is a load of crap as you should know by now, im not sure if Cin was who he said was Foxis Jedi Dude 15:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Less of a challenge in the film?

"For the sake of gameplay, Cin Drallig is more of a challenge for Vader in the game than in the film."

How can you tell from that small segment of the holorecording?--Darth Oblivion^Comlink 02:30, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Cin Drallig in AOTC?

It looks like Nick Gillard.--Rune Haako 03:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

• I think Nick is skinnier than this guy.-----Black Jack Scarron 01:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

http://img81.( image shack dot U S )/img81/9028/cinqx6.jpg

• How can you tell from that distance? .... 01:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

- To me it looks like Nick.

Battlemaster Defeated?

i was just curious, does anyone else think it's odd that a jedi, who was knighted less than 5 years before, defeated someone who was claimed to be one of the best swordsman in the order? i find that a little too convenient. i mean, it's one thing to be caught off guard, but to be slain in battle by anakin? cin was one of the best right? and anakin, while powerful, had only necessary training. he could hold his own, sure, and defeating dooku was no small task, but dooku was old and arrogant, cin was, well maybe not young, and based on his jedi training probably not arrogant. jedi are supposed to be beyond that.anakin giving into his anger makes him stronger, yeah, but cin mastered forms 1-6. he probably could've countered most of what anakin threw at him...anyone else have an opinion?

• • Anakin had the force, it was with him, he was becoming more powerful then anything or anyone else at that stage, it was before he lost most of his potentiol. Age has no effect, look at Yoda for example. Dooku was battlemaster as well remember, Anakin defeated two, thats a sow of his ability. Anyway this isn't the kind of thing these talk pages are used for. Jedi Dude 15:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Anyway this isn't the kind of thing these talk pages are used for.

• And you'll do what if we don't?????????????????????????????????
  • Aha!!! "Age has no effect"? Precisely! Please go to the Darth Maul talk page and join me in pointing out that something was up when Maul beat Qui-Gon Jinn in Episode I. --Crazy Jedi Girl 20:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
• Don't forget that Cin also had a number of clone troopers firing at him! He also tried to shield the young Padawans at the same time. No wonder he went down. ~~grobiano~~

Cin Drallig is more of a challenge for Vader in the game than in the film.

That's the way I see someone like him going down.

Vader managed to outmaneuver him and slash through Master Drallig's shoulder.

That's the problem with writing a character like Anakin. If being the chosen one means he can beat anybody then Obi-Wan shouldn't have been able to beat him. I see this as bad writing.

Anyway this isn't the kind of thing these talk pages are used for.

Well too bad.

Being the Chosen One doesn't mean he can beat anyone. Don't know where you came up with that. I'm still not sure if we should even state that he was more of a challenge in the game. The film only shows a short clip from their fight. It doesn't really show how long Drallig held out against Anakin.--Lord Oblivion^{Sith holocron} 19:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Hmmmmm? Then Count Dooku and Cin Drallig should have one won... not Anakin. There has to be a reason why Anakin won those fights. If not for being the chosen one... then it can't be for using the dark side when they have said that the dark side is not stronger.

I see this as bad writing.

Through SW:1 to 3 is nothing but bad writing.

Cin Drallig is more of a challenge for Vader in the game than in the film.

If this is not case then this should be taken off.

Only 3 Appearances???

• If you even want to call them that.... Cin Drallig is said to be trained by Grand Master Yoda, Drallig was a legendary lightsaber instructor and battlemaster at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and his skills were impressive, to say the least. Though he was not a member of the Jedi High Council, his swordsmanship likely rivaled that of many Council members.

And he really only gets one appearance.....

Cin Drallig's lightsaber

Cin Drallig's lightsaber resembles to Kit Fisto's hilt because it was a personal favoorite to Nick Gillard. The lightsaber was suppose to be rotoscope in yellow (from behind the scene and the blade was coated yellow). However George Lucas said that either blue or green is the color of any regular Jedi's lightsaber colors, except for Samuel L. Jackson. He would go no further with other colors. With no choice, the swordmaster, Nick Gillard choose green instead.

• Man...... I'm glad the writers of the Star Wars comic books have the characters using different color lightsabers than just green and blue.

Chee said Drallig didn't die

Chee's third comment at the bottom of this page [1] indicates that Drallig didn't die in Ep. 3.DarthMRN 05:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

• He means he didn't die the way he did in the video game, it's different than the way he died in the movie.--Rune Haako 10:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
  • The problem is that the comment is ambigous enough we can't know that.DarthMRN 16:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Well it's obvious that game's depiction is non-canon, since Drallig is killed on an outdoor veranda. Both the movie and the novel contradict this - \\Captain Kwenn// ^{— Ahoy!} 16:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
      • I don't know about the novel, but you don't see him actually die in the movie.DarthMRN 20:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
        • That's true. Perhaps the hologram was the start of the fight rather than the end. As crazy as it was, the game is still c-canon or canon unless it directly contradicts the movies Rather Dashing 09:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
          • And even if the novel says otherwise, thats still C-canon contradicting C-canon. Bloody LucasArts...DarthMRN 14:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
            • The novel states Drallig's body is found by Kenobi and Yoda in the Room of a Thousand Fountains. And Chee has stated the game's depiction is non-canon, so there's no dispute. Novel takes precedence - \\Captain Kwenn// ^{— Ahoy!} 19:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Cin

Maybe it is just me, but does anyone else ponder how Darth vader killed Cin. I mean he is all powerful. But Cin was suppose to be on the level of yoda and Mace or close to it. It was said that he surpass all, but the two. So could Vader win? Cin was either as strong or stronger the Obi, but some how lost to a lesser experince Knight. Gorege even said the main reason why Vader won was because of experince. SO how did he win is the question. I think personaly that Lucas wanted Vader to seem stringer then he really was and that Cin was a stepping stone —Unsigned comment by 68.58.59.206 (talk • contribs)

• Dark side.--Lord Oblivion^{Sith holocron} 10:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Don't forget that this wasn't a fair fight. Vader's got the 501st to back him up, and Cin is also trying to protect his students. As a senior Jedi, he may have been trying to organize an escape - \\Captain Kwenn// ^{— Ahoy!} 10:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It still does not make sense, he was great jedi. He had skill and experience, he should have won —Unsigned comment by 68.58.59.206 (talk • contribs)

• Lightsaber duels aren't simply decided by who is the more powerful; if they were, Luke would never have beaten Vader, nor would Obi-Wan have defeated Maul. Any number of factors could have contributed to Drallig's death. The fact remains, of course, that he was defeated - \\Captain Kwenn// ^{— Ahoy!} 21:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
• Ummm quite simply, Vader was better, stronger, and more skilled. I dunno why or how that is so hard to understand. DarthMalus 21:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• Your going to have to do better than that. A Jedi like Cin Drallig is the Jedi who is better and more skilled like Dooku. I see it more as the writer or writers just letting Vader kill anybody and ignoring what other characters are capable of and also making it that Obi-Wan was harder to beat even though characters like Dooku and Cin were better fighters than Kenobi. And it's been said countless times that the dark side is not stronger. In other words.... bad lazy writering.

What about the Human MALE padawan you can face in the video game ?

• Anakin was able to beat Cin for the same reason that a squad of clones were able to gun down Ki-Adi-Mundi. All the reasons that Order 66 worked at all are reasons that Anakin could kill Cin. Jawajoey 06:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
• Anakin only beat Cin for two reasons. He had an overwhelming army of clone troopers to help him fight and the main writer simply wrote Anakin to beat everybody with no real good explanation.
  • Ok, here's my take on it (Sorry for the length). Regardless of what is in the video game and book (as the movie is the true cannon), the movie showed a very small snippet, we have no idea what the actual fight was like, thus there could be a number of possible, plausible reasons why Anakin won.

If in fact Cin was more skilled than Anakin here are some reasons why Anakin could have still won:

1) As mentioned Cin was trying to protect the kids. Even if this wasn't the main reason it sure as heck would have been a huge factor in it.

2) Anakin may have taken him completely by surprise. As far as Cin was concerned Anakain was a hero of the Clone Wars. Anakin could have walked right up to Cin (being none the wiser) and "sucker sabered" him. Even if Cin managed to ignite his saber and block a few blows, he would have been completely off his guard wondering what the hell was going on (not wanting to harm Anakin until he figured out what was going on), and Anakin unleashing his pent up rage and channelling the Dark side could have "easily" overwhelmed him before Cin even realized he was fighting for his life. If he killed the children first (or a child) then shock could have also been a major issue.

3) Coupled with the first two ideas he could have also used the force to overpower Cin before finishing him with a saber, as someone as focused on lightsaber combat, as Cin would have been, likely has little skill in using the Force directly in combat (aside from augmenting saber techniques).

Now consider this. We know that Cin was considered one of the most skilled Jedi in terms of lightsaber combat. Yet "skilled" could be interpreted in different ways.

Cin was said to have been an "expert" in most of the saber forms, but he was never said to have "mastered" any of them. Nor was he ever said to have created his own style that was a blend of all the forms he knew, thus it stands to reason that he would have to either choose a style to fight in or switch between styles.

If you compare someone who has mastered a single style of light saber combat to one who has reached an expert level in most of the forms, it would be reasonable to conclude that the one who has become an expert in so many of the various forms could be considered more skilled in lightsaber combat (in general) than one who has only mastered a single form. Yet at the same time there is a definite and even likely possibility that the one who has mastered a single style could beat the one who has become an expert in many styles.

For example take someone who has 5 black belts in various martial arts styles and pit them against a 8th degree black belt of one style. The 5 black belt guy could have 10-15 years experience on the 8th degree guy in martial arts in general, but the 8th degree guy could and probably would still win because they have mastered the style they are using to fight. Now if the 5 guy were given more time and then "mastered" a style that blended his previous styles, it would be very unlikely he would lose to Mr. 8th degree. But this wasn’t the case with Cin, he was only an expert in any given style he knew.

Now no one has said that Anakin had mastered form V during the time of ROTS, however considering the fact that Anakin defeated Count Dooku (a Makashi master) and fought Obi-wan (a Soresu master and rather skilled at form IV) to a near stand still says that his skill in form V must have been very high.

Also take into consideration that Anakin was a soldier in the Clone Wars, thus the experience he would have gained in constant life or death battles would have far outweighed the experience of simply training at the temple. Not to say that Cin didn't do his fair share of missions like every other Padawan/Jedi Knight, but even those sort of missions wouldn't compare to a wartime environment.

The last thing to consider is the lightsaber forms utilized in their fight. Anakain was of course using form V which is a very strong and aggressive form that focuses on overpowering and dominating an opponent. Anakin was able to defeat Dooku because Makashi was weak against form V and couldn't stand against the sheer brute force. Obi-wan was able to defeat Anakin because Soresu allows the Jedi to create a nearly impenetrable defense until their opponent makes a mistake. Thus form V is weak against Soresu as the form V user is more likely to leave a hole in their defense at some point in a long drawn out battle, which is where Soresu shines. Not only that, but since Anakin was his Padawan, Obi-wan would have had superior insight into Anakin's weaknesses and fighting style.

Had Cin had a chance to prepare for the battle it is likely that he could have defeated Anakin by using his superior knowledge of the forms to defend against the strength and capitalize on the weaknesses of form V, (perhaps by utilizing Soresu as Obi-wan did). But Cin had no chance to prepare and probably wouldn't have had the time to even think about Anakin's style and how he might defeat him. And since form V focuses on overwhelming an opponent physically the surprise of Anakin attacking the temple would have created a huge advantage for Anakin's style. Cin's style was said to have been very aggressive as well so him being put on the defensive straight away would have been yet another advantage for Anakin.

Thus if you take all of the above into account it could still be said that Cin was one of the most skilled and powerful members of the Jedi order and unparalleled in lightsaber combat (as no one else had achieved such proficiency in so many styles) yet was defeated by Anakin who out manoeuvred him and had more experience (due to the rigors of open warfare). Livingston 05:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

• Or it is simply because Vader was simply better than Cin Drallig. In the ROTS novel, Anakin is described as being the most powerful and skilled Jedi of his generation, and perhaps any generation. C-Canon, and when he obviously beat Cin in the film, would lead to an obvious conclusion: Anakin was better. Obi Wan defeated Anakin for the same reason he defeated Maul...at both times his opponent was stronger and more skilled, but at both times the two opponents were arrogant and far over confident. It was actually by a stupid mistake that both of them were defeated. Maul, instead of finishing off Obi Wan when he should have, instead gloated, as is expected, but did so to long, thinking he had won before the battle was truly done. Anakin overestimated his power and underestimated Obi Wan's cunning. Anakin was so dead set on striking his master down in combat when other means would have been better. Couple that with the fact that Anakin defeated Dooku, with not a great ammount of effort I might add, and Dooku was more skilled than even Mace Windu. Yoda nearly defeated him and would have had Dooku not fled, but notice how Anakin not only ended the fight quicker, but also swiftly ended the fight, without breaking much of a sweat. Sorry but Cin was out classed...you have an unspoken assumption that Cin being a master of multiple forms means he is more skilled, but a master of one form, who masters it to the highest degree (i.e. Yoda, Count Dooku, Mace Windu, and Anakin) have all been called the most skilled swordmen of their age, and it is obvious that Anakin's Form V Mastery was superior to Cin's skills. He was killed in direct confrontation and he lost. The point is Anakin won, fair and square, and no ammount of whining and fan boy eleavation of a character will change that. DarthMalus 20:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
  • oO? That's pretty much the same thing as I said above as my final conclusion. However, where does it say that Dooku was more skilled that Mace? --Livingston ^{(The Force will be with you. Always.)} 00:57, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• Anakin own simply because the writers let him win and again the writers had it that Anakin couldn't beat Obi-Wan. Although Vader fans are just going to come up with anything and eveything to say that Vader can beat anyone.

• I know the word of an anonymous lurker doesn't mean much, but I seem to remember the book stating that Anakin cut down the padawans first, and something along the lines of that taking the fight out of Cin. Could someone please verify? I'd check, but my copy of the book got ruined when my basement flooded. Plus, wouldn't Vader have the advantage in that the slaughter perpetrated by the 501st was snuffing out lives, diminishing the strength of the Light side (not to mention distracting Cin with all those "Grave disturbances in the Force"), while all that death, pain, and destruction would amplify the Dark side? --Anonymous

Lightsaber Colour?

It's wrong in the main pic. Should be Green. And it's a shoddy main pic anyway. .... 10:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

• A Jedi isn't restricted to one color, there are many others who are seen having various colors. - TopAce 10:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Of course, but that is a ROTS promo, and in ROTS, he has a green sabre. It's clearly a mistake, and besides, this current image is grossly inferior to the previous one. .... 22:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty to change the blade color to green as that is the offical cannon color of the character according to george lucas. Darklord187 23:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

• As per consensus, we are not to change colors on lightsabers. --Redemption^Talk 23:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
  • But there is no reason for it to stay blue when the offical color is green i see no reason for it to stay blue when nick gallard the guy who portrays cin drallig chose green as his color and george lucas confirms this on the starwars web site for further refrence as to the concensus of what others believe look at the topic above this one labled Cin Drallig's lightsaber. it confirms what i've been saying all alongDarklord187 23:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

That was scanned from Chronicles: The Prequels, so regardless what you all want, he is wielding a blue saber in a canon source. - JMAS 00:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Dooku

Didnt Cin take his position as a instruktor after Dooku retired?~````

Statement By Nick Gillard

"Gillard has stated that he would destroy Anakin in a real life duel, but his character is far weaker. He is seen only briefly by hologram."

Should that be added into Behind the scenes? , btw the Statement came from Wikipedia

• No, it seems to be just a joke made by Gillard about his strength, not Drallig's. Chack Jadson 19:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Maybe the Nick Gillard article. Jasca Ducato _{Sith Council} ^{Sith Campaign} 19:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• I don't know about Nick being able to destroy Anakin, but I do believe he could beat Hayden, since the character Anakin was supposed to be quite powerful.Derek Yoda's friend 02:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

non-canon quote

In the beginning of the article, it has a quote from Cin:

"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"

..when he was dueling Darth Vader in the ROTS video game. In the movie, which is obviously more canon than the video game, Vader didn't have a duel with Cin, but just had a short fight with him, right? So should the quote be deleted and replaced because it's non-canon? (Sorry about the weird box, I'm trying to get it to work.) --Gambler 10 01:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• I see no reson to delete it. The game doesn't contradict the film. The film only shows a very small part of the fight, which thus allows the video game fight to be canon. Adamwankenobi 01:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hey, does that quote imply that Qui-Gon taught Cin Drallig how to... hmm... --Crazy Jedi Girl 21:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't. Becoming one with the force doesn't mean you become a force ghost. --Kit fisto9 00:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Um, I'd like to insert a quote here, from the Force ghost article... According to the Jedi tradition, death was a part of life, and it meant becoming one with the Force. So if becoming one with the Force is basically the same thing as dying (at least for a Jedi), then why would Anakin need to learn how to die? This quote doesn't make much sense. --Crazy Jedi Girl 20:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • It's a taunt. Cin is telling Anakin he's going to kill him and teach him the lesson of becoming one with the Force. Atarumaster88 ^{(Talk page)} 20:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Senior General

What is the source saying that Cin is a Senior General? Livingston ^{(The Force will be with you. Always.)} 16:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Is his name pronounced like "kin" or like "sin"? — Aiddat ^{(Holonet) (Contribs Log)} 20:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

• I believe it's pronounced like "sin". IFYLOFD ^{(And now, young Skywalker, you will die.)} 20:51, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Could some who has something in which his name is said in audio please confirm it? — Aiddat ^{(Holonet) (Contribs Log)} 20:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08jICsJPufg#t=0m25s SinisterSamurai 23:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Source?

What's the source for

"As Kit Fisto's lightsaber hilt was a personal favorite of Nick Gillard, Cin Drallig's lightsaber hilt bears a resemblance to Fisto's"

and

"Based on behind the scenes materials, the lightsaber blade was originally to be rotoscoped in yellow. However, George Lucas would only allow either blue or green as the color of any regular Jedi's lightsaber blade. With the exception of Samuel L. Jackson's violet lightsaber blade he used as Mace Windu, Lucas would go no further with other colors. With no choice, Nick Gillard chose green instead"

Alexrd (talk) 00:25, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Location of death

Sources conflict as to where Cin Drallig and his students were killed. Note that the novels (The Unseen Queen and Revenge of the Sith) are alone in claiming the Room of a Thousand Fountains as their place of death. Chronicles: The Prequels, the Episode III videogame, and the "Order 66: Destroy All Jedi" article (in-universe) in Insider #87 all state they died in one of the training halls.

Seems the Revenge of the Sith novelization was first to say Room of a Thousand Fountains, and then The Unseen Queen just followed suit. Also, the latter book is rather far off in that it describes Drallig as "huge" (he's really rather short) and the two students flanking him as both being male.

Personally, I'd view the novels as secondary in canon, and go with the other sources instead. Makashi Flourish (talk) 19:29, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

• Implicitly: Would there be much objection if I changed the article accordingly? I'd make mention of the novels in the "Behind the Scenes" section. Makashi Flourish (talk) 19:23, June 18, 2013 (UTC)