Talk: Bulwark Mark III

This is the talk page for the article "Bulwark Mark III."

This space is used for discussion relating to changes to the article, not for discussing the topic in question. For general questions about the article's topic, please visit Wookieepedia Discussions. Please remember to stay civil and sign all of your comments with four tildes (~~~~). Click here to start a new topic.

Bulwark Mark III is a Featured article, which means it has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wookieepedia community. If you see a way this page can be updated or improved in line with Wookieepedia's policies, please feel free to contribute.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 16, 2010	Good article nomination	Success
November 23, 2010	Good article by Toprawa and Ralltiir
December 14, 2012	Featured article nomination	Success
January 19, 2013	Featured article by Toprawa and Ralltiir

Current status: Featured article

Bulwark Mark III is within the scope of WookieeProject Video Games, an attempt to build comprehensive and detailed articles with topics originating from any Star Wars video games.
If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this notice, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Image

I propose this to be the new main image. --Celtic22☤ 21:59, April 28, 2010 (UTC) [[File:Bulwark-class battlecruiser.jpg]]

Dispute

Weapon strengths from Rebellion have zero correlation to actual gun counts - it's non-canon game mechanic. - Brynn Alastayr 22:55, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily true, especially for starship models, like this one, that have no other armament statistics to work from. We treat Rebellion info as canonical until overridden or proven otherwise by another source. I've removed the Disputed template. Toprawa and Ralltiir 21:13, January 24, 2011 (UTC)
- See bullet two. - Brynn Alastayr 19:25, February 26, 2011 (UTC)
  - Arguably, bullet two lists things like "blueprints" as canon, which may apply to a ships armament. Also, many ships from the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games use stats like "SBD" and "HU" for shield and hull strengths, respectively, and those stats are represented all across Wookieepedia. Amethyst 20:07, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
    - The stats appearing in the game are non-canon. Just see the stats for other ships like the MC80. However, using the following conversions, we can arrive to the actual, canonical armaments for the Bulwark: MC80: (60 + 120 + 120 + 60) / 48 TL = 7.5. Bulwark: (600 + 300 + 300 + 120) / 7.5 * 3/4 = 132 HTL. MC80: (40 + 60 + 60 + 40) / 20 IC = 10. Bulwark: (200 + 150 + 150 + 80 ) / 10 = 58 IC. MC80: 6 TBP / 2 = 3. Bulwark: 6 * 3 = 18 TBP. I just used proportionality in order to determine the real stats.--Anakinskysolo 00:33, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
      - Said stats that can be arrived at are most likely near what they actually are, but not exactly what they actually are. The stats in Rebellion refer to the firepower a ship can put out in a particular firing arc. For instance, a Star Destroyer can aim almost all of its firepower forward and none backward due to its arrowhead shape, unlike Mon Calamari Cruisers. The stats might also reflect the firepower of the individual guns. Tony Knightcrawer 09:23, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
We have a similar issue on the article about the Liberator-class. The in-game stats of Star Wars: Rebellion list weapon strength, not number of guns. You can divide the number by ten to get a rough idea of how many guns a ship actually has. But as stated by Tony Knightcrawler, the game also accounts for firing arcs, so those numbers aren't always accurate. I'd say we either list weapon strength instead of number of guns in the article, OR we say it has around 132 turbolasers and 58 ion cannons, or we just remove the numbers altogether. The stats of this game cannot be trusted. --PisauraXTX (talk) 10:30, December 3, 2017 (UTC)
- How often is this topic to be addressed til it's accepted to be addressed?! Rebellion weapon attack strength is not equal to the number of emplacements! Look at it:
  - Does the Dreadnaught-class have 200 turbolasers?
  - Does the Quasar Fire-class have 150 lasers?
  - Does the Assault frigate have 310 turbolasers?
  - Does the Bulk Cruiser have 75 turbolasers?
  - Does the Carrack-class have 40 turbolasers and 300 lasers?
  - Does the CR90 have 450 lasers?
  - Does the DP20 have 480 lasers?
  - Does the Ton-Falk-class have 180 lasers?
  - Does the Imperial I-class have 260 turbolasers and 220 ion cannons?
  - Does the Imperial II-class have 500 turbolasers and 380 ion cannons?
  - Does the Lancer-class have 600 lasers?
  - Does the GR-75 have 60 lasers?
  - Does the MC80 have 360 turbolasers and 200 ion cannons?
  - Does the Nebulon-B have 160 turbolasers and 180 lasers?
  - Does the Star Galleon have 90 lasers?
  - Does the Strike-class have 280 turbolasers and 140 ion cannons?
  - Does the Victory I-class have 320 turbolasers?
  - Does the Victory II-class have 360 turbolasers and 160 ion cannons?
- Are you really going to answer any of these questions with yes? Please stop reverting my correction of this false statement! This topic has been addressed by many users over the years, and noone is against the correction towards a general "turbolasers and ion cannons" fact. Same goes for the Liberator-class and the Dauntless-class. Am I to write all of this on their talk pages, too? At least it's accepted for the Assault transport, the CC-7700 and the CC-9600 frigate. Onicle (talk) 15:26, December 31, 2018 (UTC)

No Reconciliation Necessary

The Behind the Scenes segment of the article currently states "However, given that Wallace's evolution disregards Star Wars: Rebellion and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, both of which state that the Rebel Alliance utilized the Bulwark, this article attempts to reconcile all information." However, in Rebellion, there is only the Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire. The names of the factions never change throughout the entire game, no matter the current political status of the galaxy or the length of time since the game has started (at 0 ABY). Games of Rebellion can go on for longer than 10 in-game years, well into the New Republic era. And in fact, it would be unusual for the Rebels to unlock this craft before what would typically by the Battle of Endor, considering it's the final ship in their tech tree. Although, saying the Rebel Alliance "researches" all the ships in their tech tree is actually inaccurate, since the Nebulon-B is one of those ships. Tony Knightcrawer 09:18, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Point taken, except that two sources (Rebellion, not to mention its game guide, and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) specifically state that the Rebellion used Bulwarks, while nothing specifically says that they didn't, even though Fry stated that to be his and Wallace's intentions. The most practical course of action here seems to be to reconcile all sources, as the article is doing, since none are explicitly contradictory of one another. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 16:16, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Look at the info box inside Star Wars Rebellion. You'll see the correct number of turbolaser cannons for the Bulwark Battlecruiser is 600/120/300/300. I don't understand why in this article it is written 500/150/300/300 and Star Wars Rebellion is used as reference to this. --Mark Entropik (talk) 00:36, December 15, 2015 (UTC)

Update?

The RPG book Strongholds of Resistance makes reference to a Bulwark-class warship - able to stand up to an ImpStar. So it is probably referring to this vessel (although manufactured by SoroSuub). Corellian Premier^{The Force will be with you always} 02:17, December 22, 2015 (UTC)

Rebellion weapon strengths

I got the advice that it might get more attention if I write a new section for this instead of answering year-old paragraphs, so here are my arguments again:

There is no reason to asume that the firing arc weapon strengths in Rebellion are related to the exact number of guns. The weapon strength depends on the strength of the single guns (that is not given and certainly isn't 1, see above and below) and the firing arcs that can be counted several times because of turrets that face multiple or even all directions.
It has no unit (in contrast to RU or SBD) and is just a in-game game mechanic comparison. The Canon page clearly says: "Stats [...] are considered game mechanics. Stats include details such as weapon damage, speed, and character attributes (strength, intelligence, dexterity, health points etc)". That's different from other games where we know e.g. of in-game "batteries" that don't match the known count: There firstly is a connection between the information - batteries and guns, not unknown abstract strength and guns - and secondly each battery can include multiple guns that in the end correlate the known guns. Here it's like in an other game where a personal blaster has the strength 5 - would you asume it is 5-barreled because of this?
It is proven with many examples that the relation of in-game weapon strengthes and ships with known weaponry isn't the factor 1 - if any, it's about 10, and even that doesn't fit very well (all of that see #Dispute).

Over the years many other users saw this problem, too (e.g. Brynn Alastayr, Anakinskysolo, Tony Knightcrawer, PisauraXTX, Mithril and Caamasijedi49). The same problem exists with the Liberator- and Dauntless-classes, but at least the Assault transport, the CC-7700 and the CC-9600 frigate don't include the strengtes as gun count. If noone disagrees with this arguments, I will try and re-edit the article. Kind regards, Onicle (talk) 20:14, September 17, 2019 (UTC)

Why is the article listed as Canon?—Unsigned comment by Mcpatr (talk • contribs)

Sorted; was due to a {{Top}} copy-error.—spookywilloww^talk 20:28, 15 October 2024 (UTC)