Talk: Anakin Skywalker/Legends/Archive7

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Okay then who ever you are, let us settle this. (civil)

Everything that I posted I will be happy to post quotes to and back up with either scan or page #'s. Such As the Second only to Mace and Yoda line, I edited out because of Nic Gillard saying "The duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived. Obi-Wan taught Anakin and Anakin has gone past him. But when you get to that duel, it's emotional. That's where the mistake will be made. And if you know the characters, you know Obi-Wan isn't going to get emotional and he doesn't make mistakes."

http://www.theforce.net/episode3/jtf/duel.asp

This just one example. I would be willing to iron out the parts I think need changing and compromise with you. ~ All That Jazz.

Yes he is, he developed the levels of saber fighting.

But I have more than that, Mace Windu himself stated that on page 152 of the ROTS novelization that "Skwalker is obviously the most powerful Jedi ever, and he is still getting stronger." ~ All That Jazz I'll be right back with a quote from Lucas and text froim Matt Stover's novelization which is cannon because it was edited by lucas.

Kay, I'm back, Here we go.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/the_cult_of_darth_vader/page/2

I'll get the quote out for you though, "That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku."~ George Lucas

There you have George Lucas himself saying Anakin was as strong as the emperor before mustaphar.

This qoute is from stover's book.

Mattew Stover ~ "This is Anakin Skywalker,the most powerul jedi of his generation,perhaps of any generation.An unbeatable pilot an unstoppable warrior,on the land in the sea or air.There is no one even close.He has not just power,not skill, but dash,that rare invaluable quality of boldness and grace.He was the best there was at what he did,the best there had ever been, and he knows it." ~ page # 25

When I said Anakin knocked down a huge room i have proof of it..... Anakin when fighting Dooku in limerges power plasm facility became angered and shouted "Dooku!" at the top of his lungs, He was so angry that the Facility's largest contaiment zone collapsed. The Book described it as "An enormous place, 30 meter high and three times that in circumference." This feat took place In LOE(Labrynth of Evil.) The size of the room is describe on page # 247 the feat itself happpens on page # 260 and the after affects are Revealed on page # 283. I gave you atleast 3 quotes that were canon, 4 if you count Gillard who is a canon source, but I have more if you are still unsatisfied. ~ All That Jazz.

  • Sorry, but we have a policy that establishes comments by any Lucasfilm VIP (Lucas included) as ambiguously canon. You have to understand that these comments represent individual opinions, and opinions have no place in canon. By the way, please sign your comments by placing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your message. --Imp 17:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

So Mace Windu doesn't count? He isn't Lucasfilm VIP. And I posted page #'s of diffrent feats such as kncking down the room. That's ridiculous, you're going to sit there and ignore blatent feats by a character when it is easily edited in? (All That Jazz)

Click a button and type text. Regardless of whether you sigh or not, the feats are still there and so is the info,And sorry, but how do you want me to siggn it? ~ All That Jazz.

  • Well, your edits have been very messy. Nonetheless, your edits have been reverted. Don't add them in again. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 23:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Hold on. Anything that GL says is ambiguously canon? I thought his statements were G-Canon.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 23:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
      • To a point, I suppose. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 23:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Yes, they are ambiguously canon. And All That Jazz, Mace Windu's view is also an opinion. Additionally, it is your opinion that "knocking down a room" makes Anakin the greatest Jedi ever. Sign your comments by placing four tildes (that would be 4 of these: ~) at the end of your message (where you normally simply type "~ All That Jazz." --Imp 23:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

So where then do you get that he is less than Yoda. I didn't say knocking down a room made him the greatest Jedi ever, I mearly put that in his abilities section as a refrence, yet it was deleted, there is no subjective proof of that. And Is the narrator also count as an opinion? Because it also called Anakin the most powerful. All That Jazz 23:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Anakin had the potential to become the most powerful Jedi, but he never did become the most powerful Jedi. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 23:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, the elimination of most of his competition via Order 66 could be said to have 'bumped him up the list';). Perhaps since Jazz is new here, he might not be aware of all of the protocols involved in contributing to an article, like canon sources (although level of detail in an article can depend on the writer's discretion as to what is too much, I guess). In the rush to join and start contributing, not everyone wants to stop to read instructions.Tocneppil 00:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't that YOUR opinion Admiral? Point is, info was put on there such as knocking down the room, that wasn't subjective. You took it off why? Isn't it just your Opinion however that Anakin wasn't as good as Mace or Yoda? Actua;lly, I can't ever recall Yoda doing anything that would make his as good as Anakin or Sidious, Anakin beat Dooku faster than yoda could force a stalemate.All That Jazz 03:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Regardless of who's opinion is the correct one, Jazz, there are standards of spelling, punctuation, and to a lesser extent composition, that need to be followed for an article to maintain a certain level of 'encyclopedic quality'. It is possible that your contributions were deleted for those reasons. Perhaps a re-wording of your piece would help it get in. To that end, perhaps Jack may be able to assist you, or at least know someone who can.Tocneppil 03:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Who is Jack? All That Jazz 06:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • The guy you're arguing with. His user name is Jack Nebulax.--Lord OblivionSith holocron30px 06:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
    • <sigh> It's been stated that Anakin was not as powerful as Yoda. The only reason Anakin was able to kill Windu was that Windu wasn't actually expecting Anakin to do such a thing. If Windu had stayed true to his word, he had trusted Anakin by then. And the only reason Anakin beat Dooku was because he had accessed the dark side, something Yoda hadn't done. Anyway, All That Jazz, if you could re-format your text into something easier to read that is free of those ambigiously canon statements and doesn't remove anything currently in the article, please post it here before adding it into the article. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 12:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Ugghhh, Yeah well it was also stated that Anakin was better and according your laws statements are only opinions.. So Why don't you take the line about Being second only to Mace and Yoda off, otherwise it's a double standard. I'd Like to have the room reference in there, and perhaps some other thinga absent from his abilities section. But I wouldn't want to put any power statements abut being the best in. And Perhaps expand on some battlea. And to be quite frank Power is power whether it comes from the dark or light, Anakin still beat Dooku faster than yoda could force a stalemate. I'll post some thing I'd like to have and text here so you guys can se and perhaps help with correcting.

All That Jazz 17:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The following is under the lightsaber training section. "By defeating Dooku when Kenobi had failed twice, Anakin seemed to have proven his mastery of the Force, and established himself as one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order, second only to Yoda and Mace." All That Jazz 21:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Good, how?All That Jazz 22:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Good enough to be put in the article. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 23:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
    • That's still conjecture. Sorry. --Imp 23:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Could you explain why, Imp? Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 23:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Sure. First of all, to say Anakin "proved his mastery of the Force" by defeating Dooku is simply an opinion. Second, the whole "established himself as one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order, second only to Yoda and Mace" sentence is speculation. An acceptable rewording of the sentence would be "Anakin was a skilled lightsaber duelist." leaving out the whole "mastery of the Force" thing. --Imp 23:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
          • So, with Imp's rewrite, it would look similar to this: "By defeating Dooku when Kenobi had failed twice, Anakin proved he was a skilled lightsaber duelist." Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 00:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking something like " By defeating count Dooku, Anakin proved to be one of the Jedi order's most skilled duelest." It's still leaving it ambigous, because he is one of instead of The best. What about referencing the room and expanding on battles?All That Jazz 03:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Mustafar for sure, and Possibly some clone wars battles and the battle with count dooku. Also the room statement I'd like to into the Abilities section. All That Jazz 17:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Mustafar's pretty much covered, as is his duels with Dooku. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 20:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Not really it just says the fought an intense battle and the fight ended on the lava banks. We could add in the lava surfing or the Whole controll arm falling over the falls.

Oh Okay, sorry, can we slip the Knocking of the room down as fforce Rage in abilities, considering he did something similar in ROTS? All That Jazz 22:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Anakin when fighting Dooku in limerges power plasm facility became angered and shouted "Dooku!" at the top of his lungs, He was so angry that the Facility's largest contaiment zone collapsed. The Book described it as "An enormous place, 30 meter high and three times that in circumference." This feat took place In LOE(Labyrinth of Evil.) The size of the room is describe on page # 247 the feat itself happpens on page # 260 and the after affects are Revealed on page # 283. I gave you atleast 3 quotes that were canon, 4 if you count Gillard who is a canon source, but I have more if you are still unsatisfied. That is the an official movie tie -in. ~ All That Jazz.

Sorry, but I just copied and pasted what I said above, it wouldn't have hurt you to you know, read it. And I'm not going to stop saying Gillard is a canon source because I, and Other people do, however that wasn't point of that post, I just copied too much. All That Jazz 05:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

And I just noticed the part about being second to Yoda and Mace is still there. All That Jazz 05:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Listen, saying "it wouldn't have hurt you to you know, read it" isn't very polite. And, Gillard is not a canon source. You can think that, but keep it to yourself. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 20:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Since Wookieepedia establishes itself as an encyclopedia set within the Star Wars universe, it is very important for us to have sources for all information appearing within. Generally we go with 'In-universe' sources for events that occurred within the framework of the novels, comics, games and films, and only the creators of said works (ie. writers & artists) can be seen as canon sources. In the case of articles written in works like Star Wars Insider, the writers of those articles (like Pablo Hidalgo and Daniel Wallace)can be seen to be canon, but the same cannot be said about people interviewed about the subject. It can be tricky to figure out, so again a reminder, remember to quote the sources (that is, the articles, or 'In-universe' books, comics and games) that the information appeared in.Tocneppil 21:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Once again, plaese read what I'm saying, I simply copied too much, but I gave you the exact page #'s involving the room from Labirynth of Evil.And you guys have not taken the second only to Mace and Yoda thing off. And Too the person above one of my Quote is from Lucas himself. All That Jazz 01:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

  • And Lucas is a writer (even if Alan Dean Foster did ghost-write the Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope novelization). While Nick Gillard did have a hand in developing the choreography for the lightsaber duels, he can only be credited in a 'Behind the scenes' section in his own article, articles dealing with the films he worked on, and perhaps the article on lightsaber duels. When Gillard writes an article about Cin Drallig and his lightsaber techniques, that's when he could be considered a source.Tocneppil 08:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Dude, I have posted a quote from Lucas. They are all his characters. Anyway, that isn't the point.

That isn't my point, when can the room reference be put in and the second onl;y to Mace and Yoda line be taken out?

The following is under the lightsaber training section. "By defeating Dooku when Kenobi had failed twice, Anakin seemed to have proven his mastery of the Force, and established himself as one of the greatest swordsmen in the Order, second only to Yoda and Mace." All That Jazz 21:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

And the room reference?All That Jazz 01:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

How about, "Anakin in time of Anger and rage was capable of incredible destructive force, as seen where in Lemerge's plasma facility. Where, after Anakin becomes enraged at Dooku, knopcks down a huge section of the facility with the force. Anakin was also able to accomplish a similar, albiet not as powerful feat when he destroys some of the medical facility upon hearing of Padme's death."

This could go under the abilities section.All That Jazz 06:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Needs a bit of a rewrite. Not much, just a little. But do we have an article on "Lemerge"? I searched for it, but I didn't find one. The reason is I think it's "LeMerge". Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 14:11, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
    • How about this (the above, fixed up): "Anakin, when empowered by his anger and his rage, was an incredibly destructive force. A compelling instance in which this is seen is when he was hunting down Dooku in the LeMerge plasma facility on Tythe. Thinking of all of the times Dooku has indirectly hurt him and his friends, Anakin allowed his fury to course through him, and, unintentionally, collapsed the building with just a scream. Similarly, when he was enlightened at Padme's death supposedly by his hand, in a rage aimed at the newly-proclimed Emperor, the misdirected power instead crushed all of the medical droids and devices in the room" -Solus 16:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I like that. Good Job Solus. All That Jazz 19:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Cool Beans. All That Jazz 01:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I was hoping somebody would reply with " And Hot Potatoes." So where is the text going exactly? All That Jazz 15:36, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

You mean Talents?All That Jazz 01:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Welll, I know I'm just saying, are you going to put it in the section or is someone else.

When?All That Jazz 03:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Darth Vader Merge

Has the Darth Vader artical been merged into this? I did a search for Vader and got redirected here. Telos 02:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

On a completely unrelated matter, has the "edit" tab been changed to "update" today? I was on earlier and it said "edit" now it says "update". Curious. Bredd13 02:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Forum:Edit changed to update? has more info on that.Tocneppil 08:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Heh, supported the merge, but I still think it should be at Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader (I think the same should be done with all characters who have a Real Name/Sith Name combination n all...(Ulicus 02:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Maybe you might say its ANakin's past, recently I found out that others wiki directed it as Anakin Skywalker, it doesn't matters if Darth Vader and ANakin is the same person, but they have the different time-being. —Unsigned comment by Master Chief Petty Officer (talk • contribs)

Anakin and ataru

anakin using ataru during aotc? is this because there was a misprint in the aotc visual dictionary? the fightsaber article says he uses form 5. he built a form 5 lightsaber. why would he dedicate himself to form 4? --Black Jack Scarron 17:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC) (From Talk:Anakin Skywalker/Archive3)

  • Well, the AOTC visual dictionary was where all of this sabre form junk originated, so I'd take it as canon. .... 22:36, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
    • It's not like it's impossible for someone to use two forms in battle. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 23:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
    • true, but under talents, the article implies he didn't study form 5 until after he was defeated by dooku. the aotc visual dictionary was very vague on styles since it was the first source. i would very much hope, you all think the fightsaber article is more canon. its written by the same author as the visual dictionary and is more expansive. it has aotc anakin as a form 5 user. even if he used form 4 here and there, his main form is 5 and the article shouldn't imply his practiced form was ataru. it then says he gave it up after his defeat. Thats not true, he and obi wan do use it's flashier moves in rots. Articles in lightsaber combat confirm this. I'd like permission to change this line in the article: As a Padawan, Anakin practiced Ataru, but he abandoned it after his defeat at the hands of Count Dooku on Geonosis and turned to the power of Djem So. If anything, he practiced shien as a padawan then after his defeat on geonosis, he mastered djem so. May I please have permission to change the line.--Black Jack Scarron 04:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Sidious as Anakin's possible "father"

This has been bugging me for a while. It is confirmed in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader that Sidious is *not* the one who created Anakin and does not have the knowledge of how to create life from the midi-chlorians. Why is he still referenced as being a possibility for Anakin's 'father'? Plagueis, yes. Sidious, no. (Ulicus 09:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

Well if it's been discussed before, then obviously no-one discussed it properly :)

"He would have to find a way to manipulate the midi-chlorians to doing his bidding and bring about a being as powerful as Anakin"
―Darth Sidious' internal monologue[src]

Are these the thoughts of a man who knows how to manipulate the midi-chlorians to create life? No, they are not. Whilst it's possible that Sidious later learnt how to do this, I find it very unlikely that he somehow found a way to create Anakin and then forget how to do it between then and Anakin's mutilation. (Ulicus 17:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC))

  • Unless, of course, with the death of Plagueis, Sidious' method of manipulating the midis was somehow lost. Thus, he would have to find a way to manipulate the midi-chlorians to doing his bidding. Also, that sentence could be taken to mean the midis didn't actually do his bidding; perhaps he was trying to create a Sith, but ended up with Anakin, whom he then had to convert. A slim chance, yes, but it is open to interpretation, I guess - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 17:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Unless we get a quote saying that Sidious didn't create Anakin, there's no reason saying he didn't. Grand Admiral J. Nebulax (Imperial Holovision) 20px 21:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Consider Jacen Solo's power to erase Ben's memory. If the Emperor was indeed more powerful than Jacen, he could have naturally impregnated Shmi and left her with no memory, though this may not have produced the same level of midichlorians. Micah Giett 17:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)