This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete all. —MJ— Holocomm 15:28, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
Unidentified Rogues
- Unidentified Rogue Group pilot 1 (talk - history - links - logs)
- Unidentified Rogue Group pilot 2 (talk - history - links - logs)
- Unidentified Rogue Group pilot 3 (talk - history - links - logs)
These three "unidentified Rogue" articles cover unnamed Rogue Squadron pilots who fought at the Battle of Hoth. However, The Essential Guide to Warfare named the entire Hoth Rogue Squadron roster, 23 pilots in all for 12 snowspeeders fighting in the battle (Warfare notes that Dash Rendar, Rogue 12, did not have a gunner). Galaxy Guide 3: The Empire Strikes Back, Second Edition, page 23, establishes that the Rebels had "a mere dozen snowspeeders" to fight the battle. In other words, we know who all of the Rogue pilots are at the Battle of Hoth, so there should no longer be any "unidentified Rogue pilot at Hoth" articles. Unidentified Rogue pilots 1 and 2 must therefore be one of the named Rogues; Unidentified Rogue pilot 3 does not appear to have any confirmed link to the Rogues. There is nothing establishing that all of the pilots standing at Leia's pre-battle briefing are Rogues. Sources merely state they are a "group of pilots," and we know that some Rebel pilots flew starfighters in the battle to escort the evacuation transports. Who's Who in Echo Base from Insider 74 establishes that 42 Rebel pilots died during the battle, so some must be non-Rogues. Therefore, "Unidentified Rogue Group pilot 3" could probably be kept if someone wants to move it to a new name. I am listing it for deletion for now; if and when it gets moved to an acceptable title, I will remove it from this TC. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:57, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
Delete these three articles
- Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:57, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Cade
Calrayn 19:01, October 25, 2013 (UTC) - Byzantinefire (talk) 20:18, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Per Tope's reasoning. 501st dogma(talk) 20:40, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Definitely. Corellian Premier
The Force will be with you always 21:06, October 25, 2013 (UTC) - Exiled Jedi
(Greetings) 21:53, October 25, 2013 (UTC) - Per Tope. DarthRevan1173
(Long live Lord Revan) 00:15, October 26, 2013 (UTC) - The T-man has got it --- we know who every member of Rogue Group is during the Battle. I thought I clarified this! ;)—Unsigned comment by Menkooroo (talk • contribs)
- Per Tope and Menk. —MJ— Holocomm 04:18, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- Trip391 (talk) 04:58, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- I GOTCHUR BAQ, BRO! ;) MasterFred(Whatever) 18:46, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
- Tope, stop already with all the tl;dr. :P Seriously, though, good job finding all this and knowing all the facts.—Cal Jedi (Personal Comm Channel) 14:01, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
- 1358 (Talk) 14:11, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
- Ayrehead02 (talk) 23:23, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
Keep
Discussion
My reasoning behind creating those three articles. First, I specifically called them "Rogue Group" pilots because they aren't necessarily Rogue SQUADRON members, but members of the snowspeeders designated Rogue Group. Also, that one pilot based on an actual still from the film does not only show up in the briefing scene but, as mentioned in the article, is then among pilots running through the base, and then seen running to and climbing into the snowspeeder next to Luke. I'm basing this on the fact that he has on the same unique helmet Garven Dreis wore in ANH, the same way that Hobbie and Janson are wearing ANH helmets. And since many pilots later given names in the EU first had separate "unidentified" articles, I don't think that means they can't have those for now. This also is mentioned in the "Behind the scenes" section of all three. --JMM (talk) 19:39, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Incidentally, pilot #3 would likely have to be Zev Kabir, Tenk Lenso or Tarrin Datch, as the remaining pilots are known characters with different faces (and genders). --JMM (talk) 20:00, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Firstly, Rogue Group = Rogue Squadron. These terms are synonymous. The Essential Guide to Warfare, among other sources, confirms this. Warfare explains that Rogue Squadron is called "Rogue Group" at the Battle of Hoth because pilots from three separate units (Rogue Flight, Blue Squadron, and Green Squadron) were cobbled together into a single grouping, Rogue Group, to fight in the battle. Secondly, indeed, given your clarification, Unidentified pilot 3 must therefore be one of the named Rogues, so this article should be deleted given that this character, even though we don't know who he is, already has an article under a different name. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 20:09, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
One last comment before this thing is deleted. Part of the idea for these kind of articles is just to document these characters, maybe in the hopes that in the future, an author may name this character. As I sort of "proved", the character appears to be one of the snowspeeder pilots, and having the vague article may be a handy reference so people notice the character exists. Hopefully, that avoids some of the continuity errors like back in the Decipher CCG days. The Behind the scenes sections all mention that #3 is likely one of the Rogues. Deleting it because he technically already has to be an existing character ends up wiping out that information so no one actually knows he is an existing character... The defense rests. :) --JMM (talk) 14:48, October 28, 2013 (UTC)