Forum:TC:Handshake

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or, if the page was deleted, in the Senate Hall rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was No consensus; default to keep. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:10, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Handshake (talk - history - links - logs)

Hey everyone,

Here's another simple real life thing. However, unlike recent TCs on simple real-life things such as pillow and braces, there doesn't seem to be anything at all that's even remotely unique about handshaking in the SW universe. "used by beings throughout the galaxy" reads like another way of saying that there's nothing culturally unique about it to anyone. It's just a handshake. Fist Bump was recently CSD'd, and we don't have articles on hugs or kisses. Menkooroo (talk) 05:34, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Delete

  1. Menkooroo (talk) 05:34, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  2. Or salutes, nods, or winks. Darth Trayus(Trayus Academy) 05:41, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  3. ... 1358 (Talk) 14:14, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  4. ..... Cade Calrayn GalacticRepublicEmblem-Traced-TORkit 14:17, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  5. Heh. — DigiFluid(Whine here) 14:23, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  6. "it's my privilege to present a laurel and hearty handshake" <-Omicron(Leave a message at the BEEP!) 14:27, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  7. IFYLOFD (Floyd's crib) 21:48, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  8. Things, yes. Abstract concepts: unless it's The Force... Corellian PremierRobotechAll along the watchtower 22:13, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • What about marriage, burial or even toasting? Articles about cultural activities and social rites have been made in the past. Provided there's enough information, why should we not keep them? And we do have an article on at least one type of salute: Imperial salute. --LelalMekha (talk) 22:17, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  9. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 08:07, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  10. For the same reason that Braces should be deleted. Also it's not relevant at all. Winterz (talk) 11:20, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  11. ~SavageBOB sig 11:31, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  12. Ayrehead02 (talk) 14:50, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Keep

  1. With the points raised by Dionne Jinn and the additions provided by LelalMekha, I'm inclined to see the article as just as notable as several of our other custom-based articles such as "burial" and "toasting". Bella'Mia (talk) 09:49, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  2. I don't want to be a hellion, but I sincerely think articles based on social rites should have a place on the Wook. I mean, come on... In its time, The Official Star Wars Fact File took two pages to tell us clothing was subject to the whims of fashion. If that isn't sheer real life transposition, I don't know what it is. Of course, we shouldn't have an article for every single word in the English dictionary, but this is about culture. The handshake etiquette may not be unique per se, but the poisoning ring story provides at least something of interest. --LelalMekha (talk) 10:00, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  3. With the current improvements and continued hunt for more information and details I think it deserves a chance.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 10:24, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  4. Per all the above. Tinwe(comlink) 15:05, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  5. I think LelalMekha does perfectly to describe this as a "social rite" with demonstrable in-universe cultural significance, some of which is clearly unique, if that's what one needs to win them over. Frankly, the fact that it has any kind of in-universe significance is good enough for me. Our determining factor for these types of things should not necessarily hinge on whether something is unique in relation to the real world. Our job is simply to document Star Wars canon. Nothing more. It doesn't matter if something is identical to the real world or not. If it exists in canon, we document it. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 18:26, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  6. Exiled Jedi Oldrepublic crest (Greetings) 13:02, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
  7. 501st dogma(talk) 21:36, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
  8. People these days seem overly eager to just nix articles that even have the slightest connection to the real world. This article is notable in that they shake hands in the GFFA. They don't dance the Hokey-Pokey, they don't smack each other's butts upon greeting, they don't do that fake air kiss that some people do... they shake hands. And there are plenty of references to handshakes in other sources. When two beings reach an agreement, they don't lift their shirts and rub their stomachs together; they shake hands. It's notable. Trak Nar Ramble on 21:43, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
    • Might I add, when it's a matter of culture and social rites, nothing is "natural" or "obvious". Shaking hands to say hello/goodbye is not any more "normal" than touching each other's cheeks or doing a facepalm. It's not just because handshakes seem natural to most Westerners that it must be considered obvious. --LelalMekha (talk) 22:04, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
  9. A hearty handshake JangFett (Talk) 22:57, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
  10. I don't see why this should be erased. Plagueis327 (talk) 00:10, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
  11. Very much so. Per Lelal, Tope, and Trak.—Cal JediInfinite Empire (Personal Comm Channel) 00:24, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
  12. Clone Commander Lee Talk 23:12, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
  13. Cumulonimbus Cloud (ℳeeting ℛoom) 21:29, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
  14. JMAS Jolly Trooper Hey, it's me! 22:37, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
  15. Per above. (: – Tm_T@Wookieepedia:~$ 19:51, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

I don't know if it would make it unique or not, but at least in Outbound Flight Thrawn and Thrass share something I would consider a variant of a handshake. There are also other appearances that seem to be missing, like Star Wars: X-Wing Rogue Squadron: Battleground: Tatooine and X-wing: Wedge's Gamble, and I bet I've seen it appear in other places as well, but can't remember them from the top of my head right now.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 14:40, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

  • It sould also be noted that handshake is probably not universal, since not all species do it. Some do not even have hands to start with, and others like the Hutts do not hail each other that way. --LelalMekha (talk) 14:49, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
  • Dionne Jinn, if you or someone could demonstrate some kind of in-universe cultural uniqueness that handshakes have, one could make the case for keeping the article. Toprawa and Ralltiir (talk) 19:18, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • I'll see what I can do. I don't have nearly as many source books and novels as many of the folks here have, but I'll go through what I have and see if there is anything that would make it unique. Because in its current state, that article deserves to be put into trash, but if something additional could be found it might be improved.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 21:14, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
      • I agree. I, too, shall inquire tonight. --LelalMekha (talk) 21:18, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • Found something! In Specter of the Past Tierce's clone says Kuati nobles use poison injector rings to kill their enemies with handshake and that it is an old custom of theirs. He freaks poor Flim out pretty good with that. I'll work that into the article tomorrow.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 21:46, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
    • I started searching a little further, and I found some little things. I'm going to expose them here so the community can decide whether they are interesting or not. In The Courtship of Princess Leia, we learn it is customary to shake hands with women as well, since "Han shook Teneniel's hand" and "Threkin Horm shook Leia's hand warmly". The Truce at Bakura is quite verbal about handshakes ; it mentions how Solo was rude to Wilek Nereus by not shaking his hand, how Captain Conn Doruggan smooched Leia's fingers, and how Nereus shook hands all around, keeping his gloves on (fearing infection). In Darth Bane: Rule of Two, it is said Tarsus Valorum grip was "firm but not overpowering—the perfect politician's handshake." --LelalMekha (talk) 21:58, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
      • I think that point about Han being rude by not shaking hands is well worth mentioning. And that "politician's handshake" as well. At least they all should go to the "appearances" section.--Dionne Jinn (Something to say?) 07:02, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • Okay then, well add all of the above to the article so that everyone can see what it would look like with that information. The distinctions between how people in GFFA shook hands, the cultural significance of a handshake, the dangers of shaking hands with a Kuati noble, and why someone wouldn't shake hands surely gives the article the same legitimacy as "pillow" and "shirt". I'd vote to keep. Bella'Mia (talk) 08:53, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
    • Honestly, all of these things are analogous to real world hand shake ettiquete. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 09:44, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
      • Look, when I created the toasting article, nobody put it in the trash compactor. Sometimes, I'm under the impression people just enjoy deleting things... --LelalMekha (talk) 09:47, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
        • Or maybe it means no-one saw it, so no-one would have thought to delete it. There's no distinction between a Star Wars toast and a real world toast either. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 09:49, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
          • Then I suggest you pursue your arguments to their logical conclusion and TC it, too. --LelalMekha (talk) 09:51, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
            • It's 3 AM for me. Maybe tomorrow if I remember. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 09:57, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
        • (Edit conflict) Further, there is absolutely no equivalency between the burial article, which details how different cultures bury their dead in ways that are far different than what we consider normal and handshake curstoms that are not. Erecting a tomb to honor them my be akin to Ancient Eqyptian tradition, but it's not how they do it in Cardiff. People have been buried in mass graves during plagues and after massacres, but not as a normal thing. Someone squeezing your hand roughly during a handshake is a standard aggressive expression. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 09:57, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
          • Granted. What about the poison injector ring story? Anyway, I've defended my position, that's all I can do. If it goes, won't make myself sick over it, but I wanted to share my opinion. --LelalMekha (talk) 10:04, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Meh. I've lost interest in these English dictionary TCs. I'll let everyone else argue over it while I stand back and shake my head. —MJ— Training Room Saturday, September 15, 2012, 05:38 UTC