Forum:TC:Game developers

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 16:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Game developers (talk - history - links - logs)

Yet another crazy idea from Mauser. It recently occured to me that our Category:Star Wars game developers is over-populated with people, who worked mostly on the technical side of the games, not adding anything to the canonical stiry. Some examples:

My question is: are all these people notable enough to have articles about them here? We don't have articles about every single crew member who worked on any of the Star Wars films, only on the ones who made some impact into continuity. He have articles on Rob Coleman amd Rick Baker, but not every driver, set constructer and chief present on the set. Same goes for the games, we should have articles about Lawrence Holland, Chris Avellone, Drew Karpyshyn and other game developers, concept artists and composers, but not about every single animator, PR manager and receptionist ever involved in the production. Otherwise, anyone could take a full credits lists from IMDB and create hundreds of stubs, which would have very little relevance to SW whatsoever. I asked about this on Senate Hall at first and two people told me that I should bring it to the TC. So, what do you think? MauserComlink 17:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Delete as non-notable

  1. MauserComlink 17:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
    I suppose I can agree, although I may be guilty of this with my addition of Raph Koster. OLIOSTER (talk) Imperial Emblem 17:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. Per Mauser. --Imperialles 19:04, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Keep

  1. We actually do have articles on everyone who worked on a SW film, they're redlinks sitting on the pages (I may fix them one day). These people are notable in that they contributed to an official SW liscenced material. Everyone who contributes should get an article. If you go this road, why do we have articles on actors who were on screen for two seconds, why do we have an article on 'N Sync, or anyone else who wasn't actually in the credits of the movies. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 17:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
    • See, Naru, it's your pages I'm aiming after. Raph Koster article has at least some infornation, birth date, photo, short bio, etc. All the articles you've created are purely stubs made using nothing but IMDB. If you have tried at least to search google and wikipedia for any additional info, their notabily wouldn't be questionable. Bur right now those short one-sentence stubs you have created bear no relevance whatsoever. MauserComlink 18:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Well, the amount of info in an article doesn't really have bearing on the notability of the person. Harrison Ford was just as notable when his article looked like this as he is today. The issue isn't that the articles aren't developed, it's that there may not be any more information out there. -LtNOWIS 18:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Actually, Mauser, that's not entirely true. Aricles I make on these people vary depending on how much info is on MobyGames and the IMDB. If there's a picture I include it, if they've worked on other things pertaining to SW or another popular series I include it. I just can't access MobyGames from school so some of them are just IMDb. That does not change the fact that they worked on a SW product and are as such notable. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 18:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
        • My point is: Harrison Ford is notable. Game developers, writers, composers and concept artist are also notable. On-set medic, assistant for Mr. Lucas and that-guy-who-was-internet-marketing-for-that-game are not, because they did not contibute anything canonical to the product and worked exclusively on the technical aspects of production. Let's just see how many people agree. MauserComlink 18:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
          • Well, doesn't a 3D artist like Dean Andersen work on the graphics of the game, i.e. the objects, settings, etc.? Isn't that just as much a contribution to canon as say, an inker for a comic book? Brennecke and Baxter may have also worked on the product itself. -LtNOWIS 18:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
          • On the contrary, they did not contribute canon, as per say a writer would, to the project but they contributed to the canon being produced and released, therefore they are notable. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 18:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  2. I say keep. All of these people worked on the game itself, except for Allen and Theresa Baxter. They helped to craft a canonical product, and thus they deserve articles. And Allen, as Director of Marketing, is also notable for her important role in the project. Furthermore, I'm not so sure TC is the right place to discuss this. The question should not be "should these articles go or stay?" but instead should be "are all credited individuals notable, and if so, which ones?" Deleting these handful of articles while keeping ones like John Carsey, Jessica Mih, and various others would be inconsistent and arbitrary. I'm not saying that all of these people should have articles, but creating a standard would take some significant work. -LtNOWIS 19:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
    • One error: the articles up for deletion are not just the six explicitly listed, but all articles in the category. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 23:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  3. Keep for now. I'm not necessarily saying we should keep all of them, but we need to work out a standard of notability first (though I wouldn't have a clue as to what that should be as I don't pay attention to this sort of thing), and the place to do that is the CT, not the TC. Once a notability standard is worked out, then we can TC individual articles, and I'll probably vote to delete quite a few. Until then, however, keep. —Master Jonathan(Jedi Council Chambers) 23:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  4. IFYLOFD (You will pay the price for your lack of vision!) 23:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  5. If you are officially credited as working on an official Star Wars product, you're notable. Full stop. jSarek 01:43, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Last chance: even if you worked as a marketing director, which means you only helped sell the product without actually participating in its creation? MauserComlink
      • You officially contibuted to the media's release and its sales. The marketing director is almost wholly responsible for the game's commercial success in that, if no one heard of the game, no one would buy the game. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 16:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
        • What about the guys who stacked the shelves in Gamestop? If no one stacked the game, no one would buy the game. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 17:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
          • They're not employed by LFL or a subsidiary company contracted by LFL to produce a licensed work. ;-) Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 17:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
          • There's also such a thing as Amazon.com. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 22:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Are you credited on the product? I don't care if you're assistant caterer, you're in. jSarek 04:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  6. Per jSarek. - JMAS Hey, it's me! 01:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  7. Per jSarek. It's not hurting anybody to have short article on people who are officially credited and contributed to the creation of a Star Wars work. Havac 02:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  8. Per jSarek. ZEM talk to me! 14:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  9. Per Jonathan. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  10. I'm a bit torn between MasterJon and jSarek, but in no way do I think that they should be deleted at this time. Cylka-talk- 09:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  11. Hyperinclusionism flags ahoy! Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 15:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  12. Just don't see the harm in it whatsoever. Graestan(Talk) 19:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
  13. Keep. The possibly thorny issue of notability based on credits should be left to CT, and even if we end up with a "they're credited, they're notable" standard, I feel it wouldn't hurt to have a codified policy that our editors can consult in the future (unless there is one that I'm unaware of :-P).--Muuuuuurgh 19:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
  14. Jonjedigrandmaster (Jedi Beacon) 00:33, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
  15. Keep, as those credited are notable. -- Riffsyphon1024 06:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
  16. A change of heart, I say keep em. Regardless of whether or not they added to canon, they still helped bring the game to life, so they at least deserve a mention. OLIOSTER (talk) Imperial Emblem 09:35, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Discuss

  • Please do not any third option without leaving a message here first. MauserComlink 17:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Perhaps they should be merged into one page? ZEM talk to me! 19:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Not possible. It would be a huge list and so unorganized. As well, therse people worked on completely unrelated projects so there would be no reason to have them all on the same page. NaruHina Talk Anakinsolo 19:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Okay, now I see this one is a fail. Guess you can close the thread already per snowball. MauserComlink 22:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)