Forum:TC:Battlefront II award weapons

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 15:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Battlefront II award weapons (talk - history - links - logs)

All those weapons are "upgraded" variants of basic weapons in Battlefront II, awarded to the player for completing several requirements in one life. Unlike other weapons in Battlefront, which are canonical E-60R missile launchers, E-11s sniper rifles, Bulldog RLRs and such, these weapons have not received any official designation in either Game Guide or Lucasarts website. All the articles have to say about them is pure game OR / mechanics, to the point of "This shotgun weapon was awarded to engineers for killing eight enemies in one life." Also, according to the game guide the weapons of soldiers of same class vary from faction to faction, even though their game purposes are the same. Therefore, none of the weapons listed above can be an upgraded version of a respective weapon.

Summary: none of those weapons seem to exist IU. They aren't mentioned in any source and in their only appearance they are pure game mechanics and were probably intended to be this way, otherwise they would be called by an official designation in the game guide. MauserComlink 21:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge to the non-upgraded weapons articles

  1. (I believe most of you deletion votes really wanted this option, which was not initially given.)IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 15:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • I seriously doubt there is anything in there to merge. MauserComlink 03:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. I think they at least warrant a mention somewhere. Perhaps this is the best choice. —Xwing328(Talk) 03:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. Merge with relevant regular weapon articles, now that it's its own option. jSarek 07:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Again, where exactly do you propose to merge them? Each in-game faction has its own IU sniper rifle, each of them can be upgraded into beam rifle. Does that mean we should merge game-mechanics into each one of them? MauserComlink 17:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. I agree that some sort of mention somewhere is definitely necessary. In this case, a redirect would be appropriate. Toprawa and Ralltiir 18:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. Yeah, do this thing to those things. -- Darth Culator (Talk) 23:33, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  6. JMAS Hey, it's me! 23:36, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  7. This. JorrelWiki-shrinkableFraajic 02:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Delete

  1. MauserComlink 21:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. Chack Jadson (Talk) 21:39, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. -- AdmirableAckbar (Talk) 22:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. Let 'em burn. IFYLOFD (You will pay the price for your lack of vision!) 22:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
  5. Jonjedigrandmaster (Jujiggum) 01:55, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  6. CC7567 (talk) 02:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  7. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Talk page) 02:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  8. Grunny (Talk) 02:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  9. Master JonathanJedi Council Chambers 03:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
  10. Perhaps some IU descriptions of the "upgrades" could be added to the basic weapon articles. - Esjs(Talk) 07:41, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
    Per Esjs. Some of the game mechanics may also be valid for inclusion in Bts sections of the basic weapons, as well. jSarek 01:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
    Per Esjs. - JMAS Hey, it's me! 01:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
  11. Graestan(Talk) 16:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
  12. Darth Culator (Talk) 18:51, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
  13. Master Gump(The name's Forrest) 20:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  14. Pure game mechanics Cyfiero 01:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
  15. LtNOWIS 01:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
  16. --Darth tom Imperial Emblem (Imperial Intelligence) 11:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  17. Grand Moff Tranner Imperial Department of Military Research (Comlink) 23:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Keep and remove game mechanics

  1. —Darthtyler (Talk) 03:14, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
    • The problem with that is that once you remove the game mechanics, there's nothing left!!! The weapons—and everything in their articles—is 100% pure game mechanics, hence why they need to be deleted outright. Master JonathanJedi Council Chambers 03:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Nah, I don't think it's 100% game mechanics. Simply the name of the weapon, the fact that it was considered superior to the normal weapon, and an image of the weapon would do for the article...—Darthtyler (Talk) 17:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
  2. They were actual weapons used in star wars storylines. Flechette shotgun seems to be a unique weapon. It was used in the game so it exists same as the various lightsaber crystals in KOTOR exist...even though their descriptions were game mechanics. IthinkIwannaLeiaWaddaUthink? 15:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • They do not appear in the storyline mode at all for that matter. MauserComlink 17:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  3. ...unpopular position, but the articles should remain, even if all that's left is a one-sentence article with the weapon classification (blaster pistol, blaster rifle, whatever) Enochf 23:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
  4. Some of these, at least, have non-gameplay differences. The precision pistol shoots a long, thin beam which is continuous between it and the target. The upgraded sniper rifle likewise fires in a genuinely different manner. That's perfectly worth documenting as a unique type, and has nothing to do with the "awarded for so many kills" mechanic nonsense. Havac 04:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Comments

  • However this goes, I don't find "The beam rifle was awarded to snipers that excelled in their role on the battlefield by scoring 6 kills in a single life." to be in-universe. -- Riffsyphon1024 06:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
    • I agree. That kind of description is obviously not IU. However, something could be said about the upgrade being exclusive, granted only to snipers who have proven their skill. This may sound a little OR, but I think it conveys the intention of the game mechanic in an IU way. - Esjs(Talk) 20:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Did these have the same appearance as the standard weapons? Because if they were visually distinct, that would seem to indicate canonical existence. -LtNOWIS 00:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
    • The appearance of the weapon does not change. MauserComlink 01:10, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Alright, thanks. -LtNOWIS 01:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

To those of you, who started third vote-splitting Merge option and are voting for it: Let's look at the rifles used in-game by snipers as example. Depending on the faction, that rifle is one of those:

In-game all those rifles are identical in both appearance and the capacity of shots. If not for the Lucasarts website and the Prima Game Guide, we would have no way of telling each one of them from the regular Sniper rifle. So, where exactly do you propose to merge the upraded rifle? Now, when you earn the award, your rifle automatically switches to the so-called Particle beam rifle. The appearance of the weapon still does not change, but its characteristics do. See the for-now-existent article for the list of changes, right after the geniusly IU-line "The beam rifle was awarded to snipers that... scored 6 kills in a single life". So, let's look at the actual differences: "the damage was greater, the penetration was better, the range was shorter..." am I the only one who thinks that those differences are very subjective and depend on your game situation? The rifle is better than the one you just had, right, but what of this is notable enough to add to the regular rifle article (let's assume we pick one). The new rifle is not a new model (or the Game Guide would tell us so), if we assume that the upgrade could be made in-universe, all that would be left is the line: "This rifle could be modified for greater damage". Sounds great, except for the fact that the amonut of damage dealt is also a game mechanic, real rifles (well, rifles in GFFA) just fire a laser beam, the damage dealt depends on the situation. So, while keep and remove game mechanics option is not executable, so is the merge and redirect to main article option, since you would have to redirect it to four different pages at once. With that, I ask you again to reconsider your vote. MauserComlink 00:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Yeah, the in-universe, non-mechanical information in that one is pretty much nil, but others seem more workable, such as the Elite Assault Rifle's "was a rifle that shot three shots at once." Seems like that's pretty straightforward. Regardless of how much IU info can be put in the relevant articles, as I said in my original vote, "Some of the game mechanics may also be valid for inclusion in Bts sections of the basic weapons, as well." jSarek 15:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)